All copper bullets

[Scott4030]

I've shot Barnes bullets for everything since their founding... about 40 years ago I think. I bought a 300wby from the Remingtion custom shop on my 21st birthday (a very long time ago!) and have taken many moose, elk, sheep, deer, pronghorn, bison and hogs in the states and pretty much every African plains species that are legal with a 300wby. I have been to Africa for 6 hunts so far and have never lost an animal or really even had to track one. I hand load 180gr TSX and have used that for every single animal I have shot with great success. The outfitter I hunt with for most of the my hunts in Africa loves them and especially loves when I leave some behind. For the 375 I have 300gr tsx loaded with a muzzle velocity of 2500fps, great round.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

I always prefer lead cored bullet designs whereever legal or whenever I can get them. But I can readily vouch that the 300Gr Barnes TSX (fired from a .375 Holland & Holland Magnum) is magnificent medicine for hunting hippopotamus bulls on land.
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Before employing the Barnes TSX on my two most recent hippopotamus hunts, I always exclusively preferred solid bullets for hunting hippopotamus on land. Because nothing tests bullet penetration & structural integrity the way a body shot on a full grown hippopotamus bull can (aside from frontal brain shots on bull elephants).

Now, that said… I’d personally avoid employing them for hunting the great cats (esp. a broadside heart-lung shot on a lion or leopard that is shot over bait unless if your point of aim happens to be the shoulder bone/scapula itself). I’d also avoid them in slower calibers such as the .470 Nitro Express or .500 Nitro Express or the .577 Nitro Express or in the .458 Winchester Magnum (unless you employ a bullet weighing no heavier than 450Gr in the latter). In the slower caliber, they do (now & then) fail to expand properly & simply bore clean through like a solid.

View attachment 687274
This 570Gr Barnes TSX (for instance) was fired from a .500 Nitro Express Federal Premium Cape Shok factory load into a Cape buffalo’s heart-lung region from a broadside position behind the shoulder. It incurred absolutely zero expansion whatsoever.

My good friend white hunter Mark Sullivan has had expansion issues with the .585 Barnes TSX (being fired out of his .577 Nitro Express Heym Model 88B) on at least three separate occasions till now.

So my recommendation is to only employ the Barnes TSX in high velocity calibers (such as .375 Holland & Holland Magnum, .378 Weatherby Magnum, .404 Jeffery, .416 Rigby, .416 Remington Magnum, .458 Lott, .450 Rigby Magnum, .460 Weatherby Magnum, .500 Jeffery).

I do not know of anyone with.more and more varied experience than Hunter Habib. That's what I meant when I wrote that if you said it I would believe it!

 

[Hunter-Habib]

I do not know of anyone with.more and more varied experience than Hunter Habib. That's what I meant when I wrote that if you said it I would believe it!

Why thank you, Doug. But I believe that I have a lot more still left to learn.

 

[TMac]

Y

Forgive my ignorance, but is there any downside to going to the LRX? My understanding was it was basically just a little higher BC and opens at lower speeds, but has all the same benefits.

My experience is with .284 145 gr. LRX’s at a MV of just over 3,000 fps. They performed very similar to the 140 gr. TTSX terminally. Used them on our deer and elk. Very good bullets imo. I have not used the TSX or any other mono’s. All my LRX’s exited just like a TTSX would. I’d use what ever my rifle shot better, to a max range of where my bullet dropped to about 2,000 or just a bit more fps. LRX’s, if we can believe the marketing dept, would extend my min velocity range envelope to maybe 1,850 fps or so.

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

I

Forgive my ignorance, but is there any downside to going to the LRX? My understanding was it was basically just a little higher BC and opens at lower speeds, but has all the same benefits.

I have some LRX bullets in 300 RUM that I need to work up and load.

I believe the twist rate needs to be quicker than most realize. Should be noted on box. I’ve read from ammo makers that it is 1:10 and others report that 1:8.5 is needed to stabilize them. I’ll load and try them in my 1:9 twist 300 RUM.

 

[Fordy]

Gday
Got a nudge to have a look @ this thread as I’ve had a bit to do with a few brands over the years & predominantly the advancements made over the years have been in a positive manner to some very good levels that are pushing back on how they were once portrayed & ultimately used or can be used today
a Cooper bullet ( I call them a mono ) has had for a good reason the advice from many to stay above 2 k impacts & 2400 is one a line has also shown up on the likes of medium to smaller critters ( sub 200 /250 lb especially ) showing that on the average these critters showed longer impact to tip times & distances & throw into the mix the between the rib shot & it’s also shown why the saying hit bone with monos has had merit along with push them faster

Today’s good monos don’t require those old rules of thumbs & in a lot of cases outperform a lead core bullet or cup & core as I call them ( c&c ) has also shown to be possible but personally I am not a fan of pretty well any pill including DG sub 2000 impacts & like it a lot higher than that lol & pretty well use only a mono for my hunts these days ( culls I also use a lot of monos along with c&c & that’s what will be the chosen pill if it’s the better suited projectile for the task to come )
I like a pill to cover as many bases as possible I will potentially encounter in the field for which I love monos but also careful

Over penetration can be a concern but I’m also a 2 holes are better than one type of person & don’t want to limit my ability to take angles out of the equation so on the whole monos have shown the greatest potential to not be limited in this situation if it comes up

The 2 types of monos predominantly used are mushroom & shedding ( also various alloys but another time on those as they have a tendency to act differently which can also make a difference of pill choice for me ) & the lesser used but one I believe still has a extremely important role to play in the hunter’s choice for some of their chosen quarry is the true solids ( non deforming) but guessing those of the op first post is not what’s being asked so sticking with the mushroom or shedding type & for me I’m a bigger fan of the shedding monos in the better designed pills on the whole .
I like putting them through some pretty harsh testing to see where limits occur or weaknesses or what pill ( projectile) has better preformance levels as too me if a limits found I can avoid it or try my best’s too @ a minimum which ultimately gives a better impact to tip on average of the critters

Cheers

 

[Philip Glass]

on little animals like Dik-Dik, I assume it just punches right through? If it hit bone would it blow out the other side?

With no solids handy you would just aim for the last rib. It is not ideal but any other expanding bullet and it is ruined.

 

[harris88]

I was curious of thoughts from those of you that have used the all copper bullets and the comparison of lead core bullets. How do they compare in performance?

Have wittnessed equal if not a little better performance in several calibers (308 Win, 300 Win Mag, 9.3x62, 338 Lapua, 375 H&H).

From personal experience, the Lapua Naturalis LR deforms very easily and typically does extensive damage near the entrance hole even in 308 Win. Personally, I couldn't ask for a better bullet for moose and bear (unless I'd be shooting past 200 meters as there are bullets with better BC).

Hornady GMX has been similar in terminal performance (but to be specific, it's made of copper alloy instead of pure copper).

 

[Doug Hamilton]

Why thank you, Doug. But I believe that I have a lot more still left to learn.

I guess we all do.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

A lot of that has to do with how they’re constructed and what they were designed for, but I agree for the most part.
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For example, the above bullets were shot subsonic. But they were also designed to be shot subsonic.

Copper bullets have a ton of potential, and I use them exclusively on almost all of my rifles. But for dangerous game in .423 on up, they really haven’t seemed to get them dialed in yet. They’re fully capable but there’s not a huge market for it so they’ve been focusing on more popular calibers, and I get it.

The Barnes 100gr ttsx made for the 257 weatherby would definitely not expand subsonic, but it wasn’t designed to. It may take time before anyone is willing to make quality DG rated all copper expanding for the real big boys like the 470 and some of the lesser popular chamberings

@Rifleman97
They look very very impressive.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

How do you shoot an animal as small as a duiker with s .30-06 and any bullet, and recover the bullet? I have noticed that people shooting all copper bullets seem to retrieve a disproportionate number of bullets. Maybe because copper is lighter than lead?

I've only.shot.one duiker. I was using a .30-06 with 180 grain Partitions. Of course the bullet passed through and he folded up on the spot. Some years back I started using AccuBonds for North America and PG. I've used them in 7-08, 7 mm Rem Mag and .300 Win Mag. So far, I have never recovered a single bullet. All have passed through leaving a large exit wound and a dead animal. I have killed a large variety of game from a smallish impala ewe (for camp.meat) up through a bull moose. No recovered bullets. I even offered $10 to any spinners or meat cutters that could find one of my bullets in Zim. No dice.I don't live in California, so I haven't gotten excited about all copper bullets. The one thing I can say for them though is that Hunter Habib swears by them, and if he says it, I believe it!

@Doug Hamilton
I've only ever recovered one accubond.
A 35 cal, 225 grain
Five foot of penetration in a Judy bull from brisket to backside. Retained weight 174 gn, mv2,900 fps range 120yards.
Bob

 

[Badboymelvin]

The only all copper projectile that I've ever used has been the Australian made Atomic29 projectiles.

I have loaded them in both my .308 Norma Mag and my 425 Express, but have only taken one animal with one and that was a small Fallow deer taken at about 80m with my 425 Express.

Not surprisingly, after being hit with a 360gn projectile at 2500fps the animal didn't go far and considering that these bullets are aimed at buffalo etc... the copper projectile expanded on the small deer.

I have full confidence with these projectiles and I can't wait to use one on a Water Buffalo...

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

There's nothing wrong with cup-and-cores, particularly for light, thin-skinned game where impact velocity is closer to 2500 fps than it is to 3k fps. They'll probably always shed some mass even at the more modest impact velocities, but not enough to make any practical difference.

@sgt_zim
99% of my shooting and hunting is with lead core bullets either cup and core or bonded. Until the law changes I will stick to them mainly due to cost
A box of 50 100gn Barnes TTSX in 25 cal will set you back $120aud. Yes they work brilliantly when started at 3,600+ fps, are extremely accurate and give good in game performance
BUT
Don't kill game any deader than cup and core or as quick on our thin skinned critters. I can get 100 Hornady 117gn SST for $66aud that shoot less than an inch at 200 so to me it's a no brainer.
More dead animals for less money.

In my Whelen I have tried our Australian made
Atomic 29s 220gn at 2,900 fps. They are very accurate and give detestation to anything that's hit. Two pigs for one shot ( not intended but one walked behind the other at the shot. Thru both shoulders of one and took the top of the head off the other).

The beauty of our home grown Atomic 29s is the price $88/50. In Australia we have to suffer the terrors of a floating dollar and US prices. This puts even the humble Speer hotcore ad Sierra game king at both over $90/50. 225gn accubonds are $120/50 compared to Woodleigh at $88/50.
Fortunately I bought a lot of projectiles like Hornady Round nose and spire points for $66/100 NOS and accubonds for $60/50 NOS to do me for quite some time. Also have a couple of hundred Woodleighs and 150 Atomic 29s so I have enough to keep me happy for the rest of my life and part of my sons life. Also still have 15# of CFE223 to keep the Whelen going they way I like.
Would love to post some pictures of recovered projectiles but have only recover 2 out of my Whelen, an accubond and a Woodleigh. Have never recovered one out of my 25. Either thru and thu or completely destroyed depending on projectiles. 100gn Speer hot cores just penetrate the act like a hand grenade usually destroying the off side shoulder turning it to jelly. Neck shots in fallow almost tate the head off and bruise to down between the shoulders. That's why I use the SST less meat destroyed and pass thru.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Never had any trouble with Barnes TSX or Solids, been using them for 20 years. It would be great to have more options. I like Hornady's as well, especially now that they are bonded.

Swift A Frames would be great but he can't seem to produce bullets. I won't use anything where there is unreliable supply, too much work goes into load development, especially with A-frames.

I wish Woodleigh would make a comeback and be readily available. Also wish Bertram wouldn't have abandoned the American market....I would guess any tariff is going to price them both out anyway.

@uplander01
Woodleigh are back up and running mate
We can send projectiles from Australia to the USA as gifts and avoid any taxes as they are a gift. How do I know this, I have sent Woodleigh projectiles to a few fellow AH members without any issues. Should be able to do the same with Bertram.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Y

My experience is with .284 145 gr. LRX’s at a MV of just over 3,000 fps. They performed very similar to the 140 gr. TTSX terminally. Used them on our deer and elk. Very good bullets imo. I have not used the TSX or any other mono’s. All my LRX’s exited just like a TTSX would. I’d use what ever my rifle shot better, to a max range of where my bullet dropped to about 2,000 or just a bit more fps. LRX’s, if we can believe the marketing dept, would extend my min velocity range envelope to maybe 1,850 fps or so.

@TMac
Would love to try some LRX in my 25 but they aren't avat in Australia and if they were the cost would be stratospheric. Eben the TTSX is $120aud/50.
I know people say the projectile is the cheapest part of the hunt but when you can shoot a lot of pigs per trip it adds up quickly. Plus pigs, goats or fallow deer don't need that type of performance. Yes less meat waste but easy fix just shoot behind the front leg not the shoulder.
Bob

 

[Bill_D]

I

I have some LRX bullets in 300 RUM that I need to work up and load.

I believe the twist rate needs to be quicker than most realize. Should be noted on box. I’ve read from ammo makers that it is 1:10 and others report that 1:8.5 is needed to stabilize them. I’ll load and try them in my 1:9 twist 300 RUM.

I have used 175 LRX on elk at 350 yards form my 300 wsm at 3200 fps and large plains game out of my 30-06 at 2800, both have 1/10 twist. All pass throughs with devastating wound channel and very good accuracy.

 

[Mike McCartney]

I used the 175 LRX in a .300 WSM pushed by H4350 at 2950 for. All game dropped DRT. Ranges in SA were mostly 100 to 125 yds. Longest was 260yds on a Gemsbuck, DRT.

 

[Betterinthebush]

@uplander01
Woodleigh are back up and running mate
We can send projectiles from Australia to the USA as gifts and avoid any taxes as they are a gift. How do I know this, I have sent Woodleigh projectiles to a few fellow AH members without any issues. Should be able to do the same with Bertram.
Bob

@Bob Nelson 35Whelen, you are my new best friend.

 

[TMac]

@TMac
Would love to try some LRX in my 25 but they aren't avat in Australia and if they were the cost would be stratospheric. Eben the TTSX is $120aud/50.
I know people say the projectile is the cheapest part of the hunt but when you can shoot a lot of pigs per trip it adds up quickly. Plus pigs, goats or fallow deer don't need that type of performance. Yes less meat waste but easy fix just shoot behind the front leg not the shoulder.
Bob

I’ve not tried LRX’s in my 25’s so far. They all shoot cup and cores very well, especially 117 gr. Interlocks. Maybe someday I’ll try the 101gr. LRX.

 

[coreydb]

I always asked the PH prior to the hunt. He always included the bullets he didn't want me to bring.