African Hunting Safari For Two

Discussion in 'Free Classifieds' started by B. Vaughn, Jan 31, 2017.

  1. Aaron Nietfeld

    Aaron Nietfeld AH Fanatic

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2014
    Messages:
    538
    Video/Photo:
    7
    Likes Received:
    499
    Location:
    Alberta, Canada
    Hunted:
    Canada, South Africa
    Ricus, are these your standard trophy fees for an everyday hunt, or is this a speedster price list made for the donation hunt?
     

  2. buddy48

    buddy48 AH Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2014
    Messages:
    71
    Video/Photo:
    12
    Likes Received:
    87
    Location:
    Georgia
    Hunted:
    Georgia, South Carolina, Iowa, Montana, Missouri, South Africa
    Wow....here's my two cents. I hunted with Ricus last year and I can almost assure you that you may never meet another generous, kind, down to earth individual. He and his operation were excellent in my opinion. It was my first SA experience, but I have been with several outfitters across the US and he was better than any of them hands down. I was nervous at first taking my 12 year old with me on my first safari, but I can say that after my experience with Ricus, I'd drop my son off with him for his own safari! He makes you feel at home and treats you like family. As far as pricing goes he may not be the same as others. But, its his business and he can charge what he likes. I'd pay for it again. The quality and experience were well worth it to me. After reading some of these hunt stories on here I'd pay twice as much to go back with Ricus because I know what I'll get and I can assure you that you'll get what you pay for and then some. To those who have hunts booked, don't worry. Go hunt and enjoy yourself. For those that are considering booking with Ricus and have questions, call me and I'll honestly answer any questions you have. As an engineer I am one to do my homework/research before spending significant money on something (maybe not significant to some on here, but it is to me). So, before I went I personally spoke with three clients of his without his knowledge before I ever committed. I found them through this site and through Facebook.

    And before someone says it, no I'm not s US rep for him. Just a previous client who was very happy with the services I received. The results of which are at the tannery right now and will soon head on over for Dennis to work his magic. One of those trophies, a black wildebeest, may make SCI or Rowland Ward. We'll see once it's measured!
     
    salesman likes this.

  3. akeate

    akeate AH Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2012
    Messages:
    132
    Video/Photo:
    1
    Likes Received:
    122
    Member of:
    NRA, SCI, RMEF
    Hunted:
    USA (Wyoming, Utah, Texas, Idaho), South Africa
    What about changing WHAT is donated for SCI and DU? Dont play the low day fee high trophy fee game. Dont play the minimum troohies taken game. For example, if an outfitter is really to give of his time and substance to a particular cause let them do just that. Let him just donate his days fees for a set number if days. Let them shoot off the regular price list. Sure, you may not make a ton of money as the margin on animals may not be that large. But call it a loss leader. You may build a client for life. If you only donate 1 hunt a year it's a small price to pay for good PR and word of mouth marketing.

    That guy comes back with a great experience I assure you more hunters will follow and the bid the following year on the same hunt will bring more money to the organization it was donated.

    Donating hunts should not be considered part of an outfitters marketing for profit. Rather it should be donating time and money for a worthy cause that they actually believe in.
     

  4. rookhawk

    rookhawk AH ENABLER AH Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2015
    Messages:
    2,551
    Video/Photo:
    75
    Likes Received:
    2,795
    Location:
    North America
    Member of:
    NRA Life Benefactor, Trout Unlimited, Safari Club International
    The real villain in every scenario like these is SCI.

    How about we ban donating hunts? Donate cash to SCI and there would be less hard feelings.

    The fact that SCI demands/extorts hunts from outfitters in order to participate at venues is why the whole industry is so clooged up with shamanigans. People can't afford to give away $10,000-$30,000 in services that have five figure real costs. Hence the auction hits often are not what they appear.

    I sympathize with the outfitters! Nonetheless, auction hunts are wrought with perils.
     
    BWH likes this.

  5. enysse

    enysse AH ENABLER AH Ambassador

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2009
    Messages:
    11,260
    Video/Photo:
    136
    Likes Received:
    3,595
    Member of:
    Northeast Wisconsin SCI chapter, Lifetime member of NRA,RMEF
    Hunted:
    Namibia, South Africa (East Cape, Guateng and Limpopo)
    White Lion Safaris was a sponsor here on AH for a long time. They can charge whatever they want for their services. I see they are no longer a sponsor. We all have to be careful how we talk about someone's business on a public forum.

    I think if someone doesn't like their pricing system, then don't hunt with them.

    I use to criticize prices a lot, but now hold my tongue more. Let the buyer assess the hunt and ask questions.
     
    ArmyGrunt, salesman and Buff-Buster like this.

  6. TallGrassHunter

    TallGrassHunter AH Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    162
    Likes Received:
    140
    I'd like to book a suite at The Breakers for the same cost as Motel 6. Maybe some here can help with that.
    To quote a fine Irishman, 'He is a man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.'
     
    buddy48 likes this.

  7. salesman

    salesman AH Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2012
    Messages:
    111
    Video/Photo:
    20
    Likes Received:
    194
    Location:
    South Carolina
    Member of:
    NRA
    Hunted:
    USA, RSA
    Just finished reading this thread...I am personally speechless.

    Ricus de Villiers is a fine outfitter and a gentleman. I went on my first trip to Africa last year in May for a buffalo hunt with Ricus. Could not have been more satisfied with everything about the hunt. As a matter of fact I will be hunting buffalo/plains game again with Ricus in about 45 days.

    IMHO some of you on here owe Ricus an apology. He did nothing besides offer a hunt to DU to help raise money and market his own business in the process. The terms were spelled out clearly and no one was forced or coerced to buy in. That the OP bought the hunt and now has decided he does not want it is no fault of the hunt provider.

    And before anyone asks, NO...I am not associated with White Lion Safaris other than being a very satisfied client and I hate to see a top notch outfitter have his reputation tarnished.
     
    buddy48, woods1126 and BWH like this.

  8. rookhawk

    rookhawk AH ENABLER AH Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2015
    Messages:
    2,551
    Video/Photo:
    75
    Likes Received:
    2,795
    Location:
    North America
    Member of:
    NRA Life Benefactor, Trout Unlimited, Safari Club International
    I don't think you should be speechless. When we hear the story "I got this hunt at a raffle" it is often the beginning of a very sad story. Sadder when the person then says "I want to sell it for what I paid and recover my money" which I don't believe has ever happened in the history of time. Then the final nail in the coffin is when we on AH dig into the price sheet to find out if there is an "angle" and we see the price of a black impala trophy fee of $45,000. I'm unaware of any animal in all of Africa including 80lb a tusk trophy elephant that has a $45,000 trophy fee, but everyone has a right to set their own prices. I do not think it engenders good will and benefit of the doubt when you see that kind of pricing published as it becomes theater of the absurd. The harm that such quotations cause to a brand's reputation is palpable and probably best stated as "Price Upon Request" subject to highly fluctuating market conditions.
     
    Laeveld likes this.

  9. BWH

    BWH AH ENABLER AH Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2012
    Messages:
    2,656
    Video/Photo:
    95
    Likes Received:
    2,542
    Location:
    Texas
    Member of:
    Ducks Unlimited, Texas Trophy Hunters, Trout Unlimited, SCI, DSC & NRA
    Hunted:
    USA & RSA
    I am not a fan of the donations period.
     

  10. Ray B

    Ray B AH Elite

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2016
    Messages:
    1,281
    Video/Photo:
    17
    Likes Received:
    1,017
    Location:
    WA St, USA
    I don't understand the process. It appears to me that an outfitter will get a booth at a hunting show to advertise his product. While there, a representative from a 501 (c)3 approaches him and convinces the outfitter to "donate" his services to the club- evidently for the purpose of additional advertising and good will. Since the outfitter cannot afford to donate all of the services he has to hedge the donation by only donating a portion of the "hunt", hoping that he can cover the costs with charges for services included in the hunt but not included in the donation. The purchaser of the hunt would pay the market price of a hunt, with a portion of the price donated to the club. I suppose this is where it gets derailed- the auctioneer doesn't mention that "the hunt" that is being auctioned doesn't include several things that would be priced in addition to the amount being paid to the club. So some member, senses reduced by alcohol intake makes a bid thinking he is getting quite the deal- a safari to Africa for the price less than an elk hunt to Colorado; but then learns that in addition to airfare there are several other charges that aren't included in what was "won" in the auction.

    If this is the case, it seems to me that the main issue is misrepresentation by the auctioneer as to what is included and more importantly, what is not included in the auction but is required as part of the hunt and will be charged separately. Is this an accurate conclusion?
     

  11. BWH

    BWH AH ENABLER AH Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2012
    Messages:
    2,656
    Video/Photo:
    95
    Likes Received:
    2,542
    Location:
    Texas
    Member of:
    Ducks Unlimited, Texas Trophy Hunters, Trout Unlimited, SCI, DSC & NRA
    Hunted:
    USA & RSA
    @Ray B your pretty close. Yes, DSC & such require a "donation".... in kind contribution in order to have a booth. So, donations of all kinds are put up.... cash, merchandise, trips, etc. Some are very high end & inclusive..... some not so much. Now zoom out, countrywide.... at other events where donations are auctioned, many are not as rich in benefit. Many donated by a stateside rep that uses it as a marketing & business opportunity. Is it the auctioneers fault? No, he can't spend 10 min reading a contract & fine print, hoping every perspective drunk in the room caught all of it. Is it the non-profits fault? No, they put it out there hoping to raise money, advertising the. Eat they could with limitations. Many things in life are buyer beware. If I want to buy a hunt or vacation or whatever..... I don't troll auctions looking for a bargain.
     

  12. rookhawk

    rookhawk AH ENABLER AH Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2015
    Messages:
    2,551
    Video/Photo:
    75
    Likes Received:
    2,795
    Location:
    North America
    Member of:
    NRA Life Benefactor, Trout Unlimited, Safari Club International
    @Ray B you for the honest face value synopsis.

    Let's talk sad and dirty pieces:

    Victim outfitters : they get strong armed into donating a whole hunt and bidders go buy 3 of those and string 3 hunts together buying no other services, leaving without tips. They create a loss leader hoping for an extra animal or some means to break even and a real jerk exploits them.

    Scum outfitter: donates absolutely nothing and claims it's worth ten grand so they get a table at an event without paying. The fine print is horrid with little included and animal fees that are nothing but insane. Basically, exploiting a charity for a table and exploiting a naive customer that didn't read the price list fine print, the $3000 dip pack, the you must use our taxidermist clause, or the $1000 trip to the airport surcharge.

    Once somebody gets screwed there is an unfortunate desire to screw back. Demanding crazy donations causes one, evil customers causes the other.

    I think donations on the whole suck. Hard cash of say $1000 impresses me more than a $10,000 hunt wink wink donation.

    Now think of the honest outfitter. Due to the swamp they must play in they are viewed dubiously from the onset. It sucks for everyone often.
     

  13. Brent in Az

    Brent in Az AH ENABLER SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2015
    Messages:
    2,350
    Video/Photo:
    2
    Likes Received:
    3,810
    Location:
    Arizona
    Hunted:
    USA - Az, NM, CO, MT, MN.
    I believe SCI has a points rating system for those exhibitors that donate. The more you donate, the higher the rating. This rating system gives preference to the donors for prime exhibiting locations at the convention.
     

  14. mdwest

    mdwest AH Elite

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2016
    Messages:
    1,323
    Video/Photo:
    27
    Likes Received:
    1,749
    Location:
    DFW
    Member of:
    DSC Life Member, NRA Life Member
    Hunted:
    USA, South Africa, Argentina, Peru
    There are good deals / bargains to be had at some of these auctions.. but you absolutely have to be scrutinizing, read the fine print, and know the real value of whatever it is you are bidding on...

    My wife and I knew we wanted to do a high volume dove hunt in Argentina.. we did a lot of research for about 2 months prior to DSC and had a really good idea of what the cost should be for what we wanted..

    We talked to several outfitters on the floor.. and attended all of the auction banquets (we were going to attend the banquets, regardless of the auctions.. we were there for the food and the mingling.. not for the "deals").. we bid on several Argentina dove hunts the first 3 nights, until the point the bid price exceeded any real value or savings over what we could have worked out directly with an outfitter on the floor.. and walked away from probably 5 or 6 different hunts when the price got too high...

    But on the last night, we bid on a hunt... and won it.. a full $1500 below the advertised price of the same hunt on the outfitters website.. (a pretty decent savings)..

    The deals are out there on auction hunts.. but you have to do your homework.. avoid BS offerings.. and be willing to walk away from the non-BS offerings if/when the price exceeds the actual value of the hunt.. (really not all that different from bidding on something on ebay or any other auction.. its easy to screw yourself, get screwed by someone else, etc.. if youre not paying attention)..
     

  15. Brent in Az

    Brent in Az AH ENABLER SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2015
    Messages:
    2,350
    Video/Photo:
    2
    Likes Received:
    3,810
    Location:
    Arizona
    Hunted:
    USA - Az, NM, CO, MT, MN.
    I have looked at some of the items donated in the auction catalogs. Items such as, artwork, sculptures, clothing, jewelry, etc., will often have overly inflated prices attached to them. Some hunts are inflated as well. It scores the donor more points with the "Good ol' Boys club"
     

  16. LivingTheDream

    LivingTheDream AH Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2015
    Messages:
    2,086
    Video/Photo:
    19
    Likes Received:
    2,709
    The value is inflated to maximize tax donation.

    I also know that without donations for auctions, alot of conservation initiatives would be hurt. There are not many people who will just write check.
     

  17. jrgould

    jrgould AH Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2013
    Messages:
    58
    Likes Received:
    35
    Some donations are good values, some are not. That is for the individual to determine. The only bad donations are those that are written in such a way as to be misleading or deceptive, but the same thing can be said for all ads and web sites.
    DSC/SCI/RMEF/DU/NRA etc. are not perfect, but while individuals are on here pontificating against them they are spending hundreds of thousands and millions of dollars defending your right to hunt. They lobby on the federal and state level in the US and attend CITES conventions and work with foreign governments, they spend millions on research and anti-poaching. Just as example: when the importation of trophies was outlawed in NJ who do you think went to court to get it overturned, who do you think paid for the studies and lawsuits to get wolves delisted?
    Outfitters have told me that they don't donate primarily to get clients or to make money or for publicity, they donate because if these organizations cease to exist hunting and particularly international hunting will be gone in a few short years.
    While these organizations are certainly not perfect, you might want to give some thought as to which groups are generally on your side before attacking. Perhaps you do not realize it, but when you attack, you are performing the mission of the ANTIs. If you are in doubt, the next time you have a hunting or gun issue try calling the Greenies.
     

  18. Brent in Az

    Brent in Az AH ENABLER SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2015
    Messages:
    2,350
    Video/Photo:
    2
    Likes Received:
    3,810
    Location:
    Arizona
    Hunted:
    USA - Az, NM, CO, MT, MN.
    Understood.

    It does seem to be a slippery slope, listing the value of something at $10,000, when in reality a person can buy it on the open market for half of that. I wouldn't want the IRS, to come knocking on my door; figuratively speaking.
     

  19. LivingTheDream

    LivingTheDream AH Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2015
    Messages:
    2,086
    Video/Photo:
    19
    Likes Received:
    2,709
    Amen brother! But what something is valued and what something will sell for are two entirely different conversations, lol.

    But to your point I do feel it is misleading. I think saw a 7 day hunt for 2 with a blue wildebeest trophy included valued at 11k. I think it should for 1000.

    Point being there needs to be some reform both on the hunters, donators, and the charitable organizations in order to get this right for all parties.
     

  20. doubleboy

    doubleboy New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2013
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ricus,
    While I'm not shopping for a hunt, I find your replies professional, thoughtful and informative..... well done.
     
    buddy48 likes this.

Share This Page

 
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice