9.3x62 Project

[amschind]

I have been lurking here for quite some time, and after all of the great information that I have gotten for free, I will try to share some experiences which may help otheres. This is a companion thread to another in the .375 and up forum, with regard to a 2 gun battery that I'm building for Africa.

Briefly, I found a few very cheap and very abused M1938 K.Kale Turk Mausers (in essence, that means that they were new production 1898-type receivers from Turkey with a large ring outer diamter and a small ring sized barrel shank). I wrangled 24" finish length .366 (PACNOR) and .458 (Lilja) stainless barrels, a highly figured Circassian blank from Macon for the 9.3 and a more linear grained Circassian blank from Boyd's for the .458. I got Case hardened 1" Talley rings for both, and got the last of the lightweight Leupold Fixed power scopes (2.5x20 for the .458 and a 6x36 for the 9.3). A custom gunmaker in Canada named Ralf Martini makes beautiful guns that are simply out of my price range (I apologize in advance anyone who looks him up and then gets divorced due to "You spent $25000 on a rifle!?"), but he's an extremely nice guy and was happy to sell me very pretty pivoting release bottom metal at a very reasonable price. I got new Timney triggers for both as well as M70 style 3-position bolt shrouds. Finally, I found new firing pins, extractors, and spring sets as I have no idea what the maintenance on or use of these guns was in the 80 years between manufacture and my purchase (given the fact that one had nearly rusted through the barrel because not all of the patches were removed from the bore and both stocks looked like driftwood, I will estimate "rough"). Still, the actual actions were both in remarkably good shape, which made them great candidates for sporters (I am actually quite proud of myself, as around the same time I bought a M1935 Chilean Orden y Patria carbine which is a beautiful Oberndorf Mauser 7x57mm, and restored it to its former glory instead of butchering it). My gunsmith leans into the "cheap and good" leg of the "Cheap/Fast/Good" triangle, so I still have a wait in front of me.

I almost exclusively handload, so apart from the factory ammo that I bought for my gunsmith to test fire the rifles, they will only be fed handloads unless my ammo vanishes in transit to RSA et c (which is a big reason for the caliber selection above; I would've happily done a .375 Hawk/Scovill and .458 B&M, but good luck finding that in the field). For the 9.3, I have 300 grain Hornady DGS solids and Hornady 286 grain spire points, plus a bunch of "NAME REDACTED MIDWAY SPECIAL" factory second 286 grain spire points that look suspiciously similar to the other Hornady bullets for practice. My current plan is to use the 9.3 for plains game with 286 SPs, but have 300 grain solids available should an unexpected need/opportunity arise. I don't see any particular need to push velocity beyond 2400 FPS, though it looks like 2450 wouldn't be a challenge if that's where the accuracy node lies. Quickload seems to indicate that LVR will work well for the 9.3, so I'll try and see.

All in all, I have fewer questions for the forum about the 9.3 project as the recoil doesn't concern me much and nothing is too far out of the ordinary. Really, this thread is just a place to post pictures when I'm done and share any mistakes and good fortune so that others have it easier. Still, advice and critiques are welcome.

 

[RayAtkinson]

The 9,3x62 is misconstrued by many in the US and compared to the 35 Whelen and its about like cussing to damit in that loaded properly it will get you 2600 to a tad over 2700 depending on the gun and hand loading skills, I have loaded my 375 H&H and Ruger to 2500 with a 300 gr. bullet and my 9,3x62 to 2500 plus with a 286 gr bullet and will challenge anyone who sez one is better than the other on game. Ive used both on all but elephant with the 9,3x62, but with a good solid I wouldn't hesitate..combine either with a big borer( I used a 450-400 double or a 404 J with eitrher of the two as my light rifle for a number of years, but there are many other options, your on the right track it appears.

 

[amschind]

The 9,3x62 is misconstrued by many in the US and compared to the 35 Whelen and its about like cussing to damit in that loaded properly it will get you 2600 to a tad over 2700 depending on the gun and hand loading skills, I have loaded my 375 H&H and Ruger to 2500 with a 300 gr. bullet and my 9,3x62 to 2500 plus with a 286 gr bullet and will challenge anyone who sez one is better than the other on game. Ive used both on all but elephant with the 9,3x62, but with a good solid I wouldn't hesitate..combine either with a big borer( I used a 450-400 double or a 404 J with eitrher of the two as my light rifle for a number of years, but there are many other options, your on the right track it appears.

I always start with quickload -10% and then work up to pressure signs. There are a times where I don't need to hotrod it, but I have no issue pushing velocity if that gets me something. The guy at GA precision spoke to me for like an hour and a half one time when I just called to buy some magazines, and I learned more in that 90 minutes than in years of my own research. One thing that he mentioned that changed my reloading philosophy was "consider the cost vs benefit of PSI and FPS". By that he meant specifically for long range, how many minutes of come up do you avoid with an extra 50 or 100 FPS? Because the throat erosion is a given, but if the loss of 400 rounds of useful barrel life only nets you one fewer click on your scope/holdover, then push the bullet slower and aim a touch higher to get your 400 rounds per barrel back.

I think the same philosophy applies here, with different inputs. This rifle will get maybe 1500 rounds during its whole life and the case isn't a massively overbore 6.5mm hitting 3000 FPS. The barrel is a lot harder to change, but even hotrodding the loads isn't going to force me to replace it vs normal velocity. If I can get a 300 grain solid to 2600 FPS, then the only thing arguing against that on buffalo would be a strict reading of local caliber restrictions.

Again, the entire idea of going to Africa resulted from shooting a friend's 9.3 and recognizing that its recoil wasn't oppressive. I'm not worried about one or two shots on a game animal, but on the hundreds of rounds of practice ammo needed to make those shots count.

 

[BlueFlyer]

The 9.3X62 and the 35 Whelan use the same basic case with virtually the same powder capacity. The biggest difference was/is the bullet design that is available in each calibre. The 9.3s have predominately been designed for use in Africa on heavy game. The 358s were US based cartridges where the game isn't as heavy and the bullets where as a result not as heavily constructed as the 9.3s.
Is the 9.3X62 equivalent to the 375H&H, the loads you quoted give similar ballistics, but the chamber pressures are very different. The 9.3X64Brenneke with it larger case capacity is a closer equivalent to the 375H&H.
To get another perspective on heavy rifles vs light rifles, although the circumstances and experience of W.D.M Bell are very different to anything any of us will ever experience.

 

[amschind]

The 9.3X62 and the 35 Whelan use the same basic case with virtually the same powder capacity. The biggest difference was/is the bullet design that is available in each calibre. The 9.3s have predominately been designed for use in Africa on heavy game. The 358s were US based cartridges where the game isn't as heavy and the bullets where as a result not as heavily constructed as the 9.3s.
Is the 9.3X62 equivalent to the 375H&H, the loads you quoted give similar ballistics, but the chamber pressures are very different. The 9.3X64Brenneke with it larger case capacity is a closer equivalent to the 375H&H.
To get another perspective on heavy rifles vs light rifles, although the circumstances and experience of W.D.M Bell are very different to anything any of us will ever experience.
View attachment 625593

There is the fact that Bell's "Safari" spanned decades and he was a legendary marksman. His sentiments are accurate, but not necessarily demeaning.....just sadly true. In a different context, I've heard it explained many times that the rise of the .300 magnums in NA hunting had more to do with the demands of life and society than anything else. Hunters lost leisure hours to work and life, spending more time at work that was further away from nature, so they used ballistics to compensate for the loss of time and opportunities. I think that an airplane ride to a foreign country on a distant continent is an extreme example of that phenomenon : another sad example of "money rich and time poor".

That's one reason why I wanted to build these rifles: they're low magnification fixed power scopes on literally old Wood and steel guns in old calibers. The fact that they aren't built for 400 yard shots and require stalking is a huge part of what makes them hunting rifles. I live in Texas; I could open the checkbook and shoot a trophy sized African animal on a day off within 2 weeks if I were so inclined. I think that we're here because of an agreement that doing so isn't really hunting. The opposite end is fighting heat and thorns for 2 weeks with nothing to show for it but a $25k hole in your wallet. Neither is good, and the rifles are just one of the more tangible manifestations of that trade-off.

I realize that's a bit expansive for this topic, but I hope that it makes sense and maybe explains my motivation a bit better.

 

[BlueFlyer]

Photos of the journey would be appreciated.

 

[amschind]

Photos of the journey would be appreciated.

Hopefully gonna get them back in 2 weeks. Will post pics as soon as I'm able.....it has been 2 years.

 

[RayAtkinson]

Then THERE IS THIS:

I load my 375 to 2500 to 2600 with a 300 gr bullet to hunt DG.
I load my 9.3x62 2500 to 2600 with a 286 gr. bullet to hunt DG

These are not hot loads in those calibers in my guns.. I tried the 9.3x64 and after much try picked up 100 -125 fps so sent it to a gun show.....

I use a chronograph, I dont trust the printed word in the gunworld..

 

[amschind]

Then THERE IS THIS:

I load my 375 to 2500 to 2600 with a 300 gr bullet to hunt DG.
I load my 9.3x62 2500 to 2600 with a 286 gr. bullet to hunt DG

These are not hot loads in those calibers in my guns.. I tried the 9.3x64 and after much try picked up 100 -125 fps so sent it to a gun show.....

I use a chronograph, I dont trust the printed word in the gunworld..

If I can hit 2600 with a 286 SP and 2500 with a 300 DGS, then I'd be thrilled to use it for everything, including deer in East Texas if I want a retro feel.

 

[AZDAVE]

Have shot alot of 9.3x62 and 9.3x74 in the last couple decades. I have found that I get the best results with RL-17 and Ramshot Big Game powders. Have heard that CFE223 also works well but have never tried it.

 

[amschind]

The nice thing about my pile of factory second bullets is a lot of opportunities for load development. If shots per session and/or ultimately cost are limiting, then each shot doing double duty for practice and load development makes a ton of sense. I am thrilled to get whatever ideas have worked for others and will definitely try RL17 and Big Game.