45-90 For Cape Buffalo

[Aiden204]

I've come across an interesting proposition for a dangerous game rifle for NA/Africa, that being the 45-90 in a modern production 1886 Miroku made Winchester.

Buffalo Bore makes +P loadings for this exact rifle, with a published FPS of their 430 gr gas check hard cast at 2255 FPS. This is is 4850 Ft/lbs at the muzzle - plenty for Alaska Brown bear & in my opinion Cape buffalo. If one considers factory 458 WM loadings sufficient, real world energy is only 200 Ft/lbs higher. In my opinion the buffalo probably wouldnt be able to tell much of a difference. There is of course the discussion of reliability between a push feed (of sorts) lever vs a modern CRF action, but thats been beat to absolute death on this forum so I'll spare us most of the usual spiel. Although worth noting bear guides regularly do carry 45-70 Guide guns.

This is a very interesting proposition for me as the rifle in questions standard full length mag tube holds a very formidable 8 rounds. I believe it could be a very interesting choice for a working class man and especially us lefties whos options (without bringing an action to a gunsmith) are limited to 2-3 rifles in a bolt action. MSRP is similar to something like Rugers rifles in 375 & 416 Ruger. Its of course a catridge at its best being reloaded but thats the case for most calibres and especially ones commonly found within this forum.

Interested to hear everyones thoughts, I myself havent made it to Africa yet but run into the occasional Grizz here in Northern Canada. My father and I are always buying new calibres and rifles for running around the thick country and I truly think this rifle would be an excellent candidate for NA & potentially Africa

 

[Huvius]

I love the idea!
If the rifle digests the ammo you are talking about then I dare say that not too many folks here could argue against the idea.

Also, I had no idea that these were as reasonably priced as they are!
The Deluxe takedown at $1700!!
That’s a LOT of rifle for the money and and excellent configuration for world travel!

Model 1886 | Lever-Action Rifles | Winchester

The Winchester Model 1886 is a classic lever-action rifle that is still popular today. It is a strong, reliable, and powerful rifle that is well-suited for hunting large game.

www.winchesterguns.com

 

[Aiden204]

I love the idea!
If the rifle digests the ammo you are talking about then I dare say that not too many folks here could argue against the idea.

Also, I had no idea that these were as reasonably priced as they are!
The Deluxe takedown at $1700!!
That’s a LOT of rifle for the money and and excellent configuration for world travel!

Model 1886 | Lever-Action Rifles | Winchester

The Winchester Model 1886 is a classic lever-action rifle that is still popular today. It is a strong, reliable, and powerful rifle that is well-suited for hunting large game.

www.winchesterguns.com

yeah! here in Canada the Deluxe is $2600 and the regular around $1950 CAD. Quite a bargain in any configuration when you realize its capabilities. Given its a .458 bullets are plentiful and brass is much cheaper (100 count of starline for $169 CAD vs $105 per 20 for my 450/400)

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Yes, you’re correct. Not all loadings in the .45-90 cartridge are suitable for Cape buffalo. But Buffalo Bore’s 430Gr hard cast flat nosed lead loading (traveling at 2255 fps) will be perfectly acceptable for hunting Cape buffalo at modest ranges (in the hands of a client hunter). Provided that only broadside shots are taken, with care to avoid the heavy shoulder bone/humerus. I would personally go for a double lung shot.

 

[analog_peninsula]

I’d look closely at the CEB solids, myself.

 

[BeeMaa]

Just make sure your PH is aware of what you are planning on using so he can set you up for success. There will be limitations vs using a more modern cartridge like a 416RM or 458WM.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

A Miroku.45-90 is my plan for DG. It is likely the best option as near as I can tell for a lever to get me up and over 4000 foot pounds. I have used a. 45-70 twice for Cape buffalo.

 

[mgstucson]

The late Ed Stevenson, a bear guide in AK for around 40 years, often carried a Browning Miroku 1886 in 45-70 with a 405gr bullet at around 2000fps for backing hunters in brown bear country. He came to this decision after being mauled by an unwounded bear that a 375 H&H failed to stop on a charge from cover at 10 yards. He said the 405gr Kodiak Bonded Soft-Point was a real hammer on cranky bears at short range.

He liked the Brownings vs the Winchesters due to the fact that the Brownings did NOT utilize the tang safety, just the half-cock safety. He had his 1886 barrel cut down to 20.5".

The following is a quote from Rifle Magazine from 2005.

"Ed’s standard .45-70 handload consists of a heavy dose of Hodgdon H-322 behind the 405-grain Kodiak bonded softpoint at 1,900 to 2,000 fps. This combination has proven to be a real hammer on cranky bears. ...

The bear went several hundred feet straight up an extremely steep hill that was nearly impossible to climb. As Ed approached the top, the bear charged full-speed from cover just a few yards away. The fast handling Browning Model 1886 carbine .45-70 stopped the bear cold with a head shot, and he fell dead within a couple of feet from Ed. It sure is nice to have confidence in one’s gun, cartridge and loads!"​

If a 405gr bullet around 2000fps will get the job done reliably enough to have a seasoned Alaskan Guide to carry it as his primary backup round until the end of his career, there must be something to it. A properly constructed 420gr bullet at 2250fps should be even better. Personally, I would like to try to get a 450gr bullet to 2150 out of the 45-90, but I don't know if that is possible.

The main reason for sharing this is not to debate loads, but rather to communicate the Browning 1886 action, hot loaded, has proven reliable for a dangerous game backup rifle in one of the harshest environments on the planet, against one of the fastest, largest, and most dangerous animals on the planet, by a no non-sense 40 year, full-time, active professional hunter.

I don't have any first-hand experience with the 1886 YET, but I have seriously considered it.

 

[Aiden204]

A Miroku.45-90 is my plan for DG. It is likely the best option as near as I can tell for a lever to get me up and over 4000 foot pounds. I have used a. 45-70 twice for Cape buffalo.

how was your success on Buff with 45-70? what was ypur loading?

 

[Tundra Tiger]

Two mature cows, estimated 1300#. Handloads with 325 grain Cutting Edge brass solids. The first was a frontal shot under the chin that was recovered in the hindquarter. The other was a running broadside through the heart that was recovered under the skin on the far side. Both were 40ish yards. Both were dead in less than a 10 count.

(Some of the regulars on this site are probably tired of hearing about my 2 cows )

 

[Tundra Tiger]

I won't lie: I want to hunt elephant someday... with a lever action, hence my interest into possibly using a .45-90, to get my energy level to the promised land. Otherwise I am happy enough with my .45-70.

 

[TOBY458]

Whatever you decide to do, I’d use brass solids instead of cast lead.

 

[TTundra]

Do it. I have a 50-110 being built that hopefully will take some big nasties. Another 375wsm on a BLR ready for some action as well. Recently had my 1895 Win in 405 on a hunt in Zim and got it bloodied .

Love the levers.

we had a member here (CRS) that hunted ele with his 45-90. He hadn't been active in a while but you can search his threads here and on other forums.

 

[Rafiki]

I love the idea!
If the rifle digests the ammo you are talking about then I dare say that not too many folks here could argue against the idea.

Also, I had no idea that these were as reasonably priced as they are!
The Deluxe takedown at $1700!!
That’s a LOT of rifle for the money and and excellent configuration for world travel!

Model 1886 | Lever-Action Rifles | Winchester

The Winchester Model 1886 is a classic lever-action rifle that is still popular today. It is a strong, reliable, and powerful rifle that is well-suited for hunting large game.

www.winchesterguns.com

There is no doubt that a sufficently configured 45-90 round will take a buffalo. That said that steel covered crecent butt, the rather severe drop at the heel and a 8.5 to 9.75 pound rifle will very likely be an issue when firing a round capable of efficently and humainly taking a Cape Buffalo. I have a 12lb 45-90 rollingblock with a similarly stock configuration and it is a brute to shoot. I took my first bison with it with some of my roll-your-own 45-90's; fast flying 500gr Interlocks. Way too much for a bison, shot right through it 4 times before it noticed and dropped over dead. Couple years later I went for bison again but slowed it down and used 500gr paper patch bullets with much better results. IMHO, you will likely be severly punished shooting your proposed round from that rifle. But hey, good luck.

 

[Tex .416]

I love the idea!
If the rifle digests the ammo you are talking about then I dare say that not too many folks here could argue against the idea.

Also, I had no idea that these were as reasonably priced as they are!
The Deluxe takedown at $1700!!
That’s a LOT of rifle for the money and and excellent configuration for world travel!

Model 1886 | Lever-Action Rifles | Winchester

The Winchester Model 1886 is a classic lever-action rifle that is still popular today. It is a strong, reliable, and powerful rifle that is well-suited for hunting large game.

www.winchesterguns.com

That looks like a lot of value for the money.

How does a tang safety work with cocking an external hammer? Is it possible to leave it on fire and cock when it is go time?

 

[Huvius]

They have a rebounding hammer so the safety blocks the hammer as well as the trigger so there is no worry of a bump on the hammer firing a chambered round.

Seems like a reasonable modern touch I guess.
I imagine that these new rifles serve a little bit of a different purpose than buying an original.
I’m considering one myself!

 

[mgstucson]

That looks like a lot of value for the money.

How does a tang safety work with cocking an external hammer? Is it possible to leave it on fire and cock when it is go time?

They way you do that is buy a Browning instead of a Winchester. It is the same gun, except the Browning is still the way John Moses intended, it doesn't have the tang safety.

 

[Andrew NOLA]

I have what any reasonable human would call “a bunch“ of lever action rifles

I’m a big fan of the Miroku made lever actions

I find them to be more accurate and I’m suspicious the steel as much better than the originals and they might be able to handle some additional pressure

I also prefer the Browning versus the Winchester’s

No tang safety no rebounding hammer

 

[mgstucson]

I think if I were going to hunt elephant with a lever, I would rebarrel a Browning 1895 in 400 Whelen and have a box magazine. With the Whelen you get about 100fps or more than the 405 Win with the same bullet. Ed Stevenson also used a very similar Browning 1895 on the big bears with great satifaction, according to the same Rifle Magazine article from 2005. The 400 Whelen will get a modern 400gr, .411 bullets, up to between 2150-2200fps. This is about the same weight and velocity as the 45-90, but better penetration with the .411 bullet. I know Africa game is much more sturdy construction that the big bears in NA, but at least you know that both the 1886 and 1895 Brownings are reliable for the purpose.

400 Whelen is basically identical ballistics to the 450-400, same bullet basically. If the 450-400 is good for what you want to shoot, the 400 Whelen will also work. With the Whelen you get 4-5 down plus 1. A lever can be shot nearly as fast as a double in bigger calibers. You can fire it about as fast as you can pull it out of recoil.