45-06 Wildcat

[1972RedNeck]

45 Raptor is just a 308 Win blown out to .452. Headspaces off the mouth.

Anyone done the same with a 30-06 (or 35 Whelen) case?

 

[Hedge774]

I have never heard of such, but sounds very interesting!

 

[Daryl S]

I would prefer a rim or belt for headspacing. Overall, I prefer a rim.

 

[Bullthrower338]

450 Marlin and headspace off the belt!

 

[Daryl S]

Less power and weird belt headspace measurements. Only .450 Marlin brass will work. My 2" American used "any" 2 1/2" belted cases and ran 500gr. HORNADY and 510gr. W.W.'s at 2,060fps., on a VZ34 ( 1st. one & M70 Win. for the second one..
I also ran 400's at 2,150fps and 350's at 2,296fps. The load for those was identical to the 500gr. load, BTW., so the light bullet's speeds could easily been increased. I did not see the need for B.C. hunting. It was a moose killer with 350gr. Hornady RN's. DRT

 

[AZDAVE]

Remember that the 450 marlin was designed for lever guns so that in factory ammo it exceeded 45/70 ballistics. The larger belt was a safety design to make sure that a standard belted round wouldn't work in the lever gun etc.

In a bolt gun it willrun neck and neck with the 458 american.

Both are decent rounds, the American is easier to source brass for.

I have owned and shot both in bolt guns.

 

[Daryl S]

I am aware of all of that. In a bolt gun, the
Marlin round could beat the "American" but not by much due to the very slight capacity increas.

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

45 Raptor is just a 308 Win blown out to .452. Headspaces off the mouth.

Anyone done the same with a 30-06 (or 35 Whelen) case?

I've loaded and shot .45 Raptors for southern Michigan's shotgun zone for the past decade. I am so pleased that as of this year I may hunt whitetails with bottleneck cartridges like the .243 and .30-06!

Why, the 1.8" straight wall .45 Raptor case loaded to the maximum shrinks upon firing. A couple reloads and throw them away because they are too short to properly headspace. Add to that in my 700 Rem short actions, this round doesn't feed well. I've learned to work the bolt fast enough but not too fast!

I've worked up loads to 2600 fps with 250 grain bullets producing 3700 foot pounds of energy. Great but in the flat land in which I live this is a 150-yard cartridge. After that it drops like a brick!

Wanna buy a .45 Raptor?

 

[Wyfox]

With a standard '06 case you can only go up to .452 bullets, .458 won't work. Hence the 45 Raptor and 450 Bushmaster using .452 pistol bullets.
The 450 Marlin is based off a belted magnum case, basically a 2" 458wm.

 

[Daryl S]

.450 Marlin is a 2.1" case, same case length as the .45/70, IIRC.

 

[BTP-KennethWRoyce]

Why, the 1.8" straight wall .45 Raptor case loaded to the maximum shrinks upon firing. A couple reloads and throw them away because they are too short to properly headspace.

I was wondering about that; not surprised....

 

[Daryl S]

I find that quite interesting. My .45/70 brass and the .458 2" didn't shorten. I think they grew over the years. But not much, maybe .010".

 

[NDWoods]

With a standard '06 case you can only go up to .452 bullets, .458 won't work. Hence the 45 Raptor and 450 Bushmaster using .452 pistol bullets.
The 450 Marlin is based off a belted magnum case, basically a 2" 458wm.

So how about a 416-06

Is that a thing?

 

[Wyfox]

So how about a 416-06

Is that a thing?

400 Whelen with .411 bullets is the closet I know of

 

[MauserDuff]

Fred Zeglin produced the .411 Express and the .411 Hawk, both from 06 brass. He had a whole line of propietary cartridges off 06 brass.

 

[112Savage]

Fred Zeglin produced the .411 Express and the .411 Hawk, both from 06 brass. He had a whole line of propietary cartridges off 06 brass.

I may be wrong but I believe the hawk cartridges were off of 9.3x62 cartridges due to the 0.455” shoulder. I know this is semantics but I think this is true. I could be wrong, but the 30-06 shoulder is 0.442”

 

[MauserDuff]

I may be wrong but I believe the hawk cartridges were off of 9.3x62 cartridges due to the 0.455” shoulder. I know this is semantics but I think this is true. I could be wrong, but the 30-06 shoulder is 0.442”

Not according to Cartridges of the World. Shoulders can be blown out--look at all the Ackley Improveds (e.g. 375/06 AI at 0.455). 400 Whelen is at 0.462. Zeglin had a whole line of cartridges based on the '06. No sense in going to the much rarer 9.3x62.