400 Whelen

[dgr416]

Someone told me the 375 -06 ai was awesome kinda like the 375 hawk .I thought about that one in a 1895 winchester .THE 405 win with a longer throat and 400 gr bullets at 2000 fps has sone knockdown power .I was told by old gunsmith in Alaska that the rear locking lugs of win 1895 wouldnt work with the 400 whelen .In Alaska I fully trusted my 416 rem mag for charging and bad stuff that bites .

 

[Daryl S]

If the 95 can be chambered in 30/06, then it can be barreled in .400 Whelen.
The .416 is in a different world altogether.
Too much recoil for me, nowadays.
My .375 Ack. does 2,472fps with 300gr. and 2,650fps with 270gr. TSX.
Daryl
Daryl

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

DGR, the head space problem was with later rifles. I personally knew Elmer and spoke with him about this. That was a long time ago. The original specs for the 400 Whelen chamber had sufficient shoulder to headspace properly. It may have been Griffen&Howe who built his rifle. Having a senior moment and not sure about G&H being the builder. Later chamber reamers (not clear as to why) changed the specs for the shoulder and with these there was a headspace problem at times. It's a grand cartridge and I believe it slightly out preforms the 405 but not by much. For Elk, Moose or BIG Bears in heavy brush or black timber it would be hard to beat.

@Rick HOlbert
That's why people are using the Petrov version of the 400 Whelen to give a slightly better shoulder.
If set up correctly as you stated the original 400 had no issues with headspace.
If'n I was to do a 400 nowadays I would use the 280AI case. Slightly longer bigger case capacity and shorter neck to give you more powder.
You know me more powder more fun.
Anthony George built a 375 on a 280AI and got phenomenal speeds so why not a 400.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Elmer's .35 Whelen would not have the punch of those same rifles today, due to the powers available. Should be the same for the .400 Whelen as well.
If cases are formed properly and then the shoulder is never touched, there will be no headspace trouble.
I've been told my loads are too hot, yet I've never had to "bump" a shoulder. I only neck size, or partially FL size, so that only enough of the neck is sized as needed to hold the bullet. That way, it is impossible to push a shoulder back, causing headspace problems.
Method of making cases for wildcats in larger sizes, I've found, is to neck them straight, then neck down only until the bolt will close with "some" resistance. This is called a "crush fit".
The picture displays the steps in making cases for my .375/06.

@Daryl S
You are doing it 100% right.
All my cases no matter what calibre are neck sized and when they get hard to chamber then and only then do I FLS.
Works for me. My reloads CAN'T be used in other rifle because they fit my rifles only. My sons 308 is loaded the same way. His rounds fit his Howa but won't chamber in my mates tikka. But the FLS tikka loads chamber in his Howa.
Bob

 

[dgr416]

The original 1895 win 3006 did have head space problems on lots of rifles due to rear locking lugs .A friend of mine had a 1895 deluxe 3006 that needed to be rehead spaced and it looked new .A boltaction with front locking lugs is way better than the 1895 win .The 405 win being straight cased and rimed worked better in it so did the 35 winchester which I think was only chambered in 1895s .It was about between the 358 win and 35 whelen .

 

[Daryl S]

IIRC, the
35 Winchester did about 2,000 fps. &maybe 2,100fps with 250gr.
We ran mt .356 Winchester at 2,150fps with Hornady RN's on moose and they worked well. My bro used it as a backup gun when guiding archery moose hunters. He had to shoot a couple moose per season when hit poorly, in his estimation. Good straight-line penetration.

 

[C.W. Richter]

What are you hunting with the rifle? Never heard of that cartridge(s). Looks like 2000-2,200ish fps (mimicking one of the old NE cartridges using 400 gr bullets.) 416 Taylor just makes better sense to me for DG (same length, but as much steam as any of the 416s.) We'd like to see videos of Brown Bear and any African DG taken with that gun! Pics look like a factory Ruger M77 II Stainless.

Other reloaders said there were feeding issues with the 1st variant, so another came up with a 2nd...

The .400 Whelen-Berry of 2013 was derived from the .400 Whelen-Petrov of 2003 (listed here as "400 Whelen").

Michael Petrov created a chamber casting of a Griffin & Howe rifle using .411-caliber bullets. The .400 Whelen-Berry variant includes some subtle changes.

The new version has less neck taper, reduced from Petrov's .004" to .001", reducing neck diameter by .003" at the shoulder. Maximum case length is increased to the original .30-06 specification of 2.494" from Pertov's 2.490" Throat freebore length in increased from .188" to .300".

 

[mgstucson]

@mgstucson
What is your jacket thickness and do you skive the inside to aid expansion.
Just curious
Bob

Here is a picture of what a typical commercial jacket might look like. They are generally swaged with a tapered jacket thickness. Although my hydraulic bullet swaging press can develop hundreds of thousands of psi inside the die, it is insufficient for real precision. Notice the jacket taper is .645 degrees. It is really hard to machine and polish to those tolerances. All polishing must be done by hand, and all polishing marks must be along the axis of the die or punch, not around the circumference. I can make reasonably good jackets for hunting bullets, but for competition shooting at over 1000 yards, I would need to purchase jackets. This requires highly precise tooling and very powerful presses. Swaging is a much better way to insure uniformity and concentricity than skiving. Skiving will do for jackets that are not going to be used much past a few hundred yards with 1 or 2 MOA.