.375 should be banned from buffalo hunts!

[Slope77]

@Hunter-Habib that Guar in your pic looks a lot like a Jersey Bull just bigger.
Dad used to get some Jersey bulls in to cover his friesian heifers. Trouble was they came from the back blocks of the coromandel peninsula with little human contact until they got loaded on a truck. We had one that would stalk you. Long story short I saw it coming, sneak around the side of the chicken shed. (Was where the bull paddock was situated) Thought I’d teach the cheeky bugger a lesson so picked up a 2” steel post that was lying about and when he came stalking around the side of the shed smashed it over the top of his head!
The look on Dads face when I told him I’d accidentally killed this thing was interesting to say the least thought I was in for it. Took him down and showed him the crime scene. Nana turned up with her food scraps to feed the chooks at the same time and said “Ohoo yes he’s tried that a few times with me”. Learnt later that it’s quite easy to kill cows in this manner!
Not that I’d want to try it out on a buff or any of the other wild bovine species.
But it is I think in some breeds that they will stalk you!

Dairy bulls are notoriously dangerous. Why? I have no idea. I grew up around beef cattle, and yes the bulls can get ornery. But mostly they are just big oafs that like feed and the ladies. But I have heard multiple times of dairy bulls that lie in wait for the right opportunity.

 

[Tman321]

Since Hornady seems to have discontinued several of their round nose bullets, in various calibers, I've been contemplating trying some Hawk bullets. I've never used them before. They're a little pricey but I may try them in a couple of my rifles. Note that they are NOT bonded bullets.

Hawk Bullets: The World's Premier Custom Bullet Manufacturer | Hawk Incorporated

Hawk Precision, maker of obsolete, custom, and vintage bullet manufacturing. Spitzer, Round Nose, Flat Point, Jacketed, Cast Bullets.

hawkbullets.com

link: https://hawkbullets.com/

From your member profile, I can't tell where you're located so they may not be available to you.

I just thought I'd mention it . . . Cheers! Bob F.

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I'm not gonna lie I did come across those before but I read some reviews and got kinda sketched out. something about someone blew up their whelen, of all guns, with hawk bullets, twice even. Also read some things about the core of the bullet shooting out the barrel but the jacket getting stuck in the barrel causing an obstruction but some people were saying that only applies to bullets that use a really high velocity. I do appreciate you going out of your way to help me out though, really. I also couldnt find load data for them and they apparently build pressure much more quickly compared to other bullets. Thought about finding a similar weight bullet w/ posted load data and just dropping the starting charge a bit with some h4895 and going from there. Maybe quickloads would be worth getting to find a safer starting point. They just seem a bit intimidating to start loading i guess? I've only loaded for several pistol cartridges and one rifle cartridge, one of the reasons i got the 35 whelen was to actually expand my reloading skills. I KNOW i could do it in my brain but the stories of kabooms with hawk bullets has me nervous lol. Just the first shot anxiety would be real. After that i'd be in business. Also if I'm being dumb and hawk bullets are actually totally safe and great then even better, pls let me know.

 

[steve white]

I just came in at page 18--did I miss anything?















lol.....

 

[RLD]

I just came in at page 18--did I miss anything?















lol.....

Not really...

 

[LWPhunt]

I will fall for the trap. Statement is without enough detail. to think a bigger gun is better, we all know is not a linear gain so foolish. And as stated on this site time over time, more buffalo killed with a 375 then any other gun, so, it is what it is. Me personally, no use for a bigger gun, none of the monsters are as universal.

 

[Creigh]

This ignorant fella

 

[Flbt]

Just watched Swarovski optik quests
First aired aug 5 2024
Argentina water buffalo
The 375 h&h worked on 2 big bulls one shot each with hornday ammo

 

[mark-hunter]

and the attacks continue... lol, that was expected! 375 was probably the caliber that killed the most buffaloes, as the difficulty in finding 416 bullets in Brazil has always been enormous. However, it will never be more effective than the 416, do you want to see this get much worse for the 375? Put a lion in the game!

I have seen all the pages of this thread. But decided to respond to this one.

I am just a poor client, struggling to finance my next safari. I am most likely the type of DG hunting client to get one buffalo only, as @Red Leg has described

I will never have the experience to get hundreds of buffalo, elephants, lions, or hippopotamuses with various calibers to draw experienced conclusions. But who does, as a client? This experience in modern days is reserved for PH community only.

I have done 5 safaris so far. 3 safaris with 375 H&H (one buffalo down + plains game), one safari with 416 (one elephant down + plains game), and one safari with 300 H&H (plains game).

I do not have the means to justify buying a 416 Rigby rifle that will cost me as one safari only. And also because I have no idea how many more pachyderms I will shoot in the remaining of my hunting days.
So, my go-to rifle is 375 H&H. So far, it has performed well. I do not complain.

416, the rental rifle on my last hunt performed marvelously, on elephant and on plains game. Before the hunt, I was seriously concerned about how the rifle will perform in my hands, being worried about additional recoil. But the recoil of 416 on the end I find close to comfortable, believe it or not.

But when it comes down to cats, my PH said:for lion and leopard, 30-06 will suffice.
His stopping rifle, is 500 jef. Now go figure.

So, where do we stand on all of it after all being said?

I need a sponsor to finance my future DG hunts. I need more experience in DG caliber department to get a better informed opinion. Especially with 416.
In the meantime, till a sponsor appears, and with the harsh reality of modern hunting costs, I will stick with my 375 H&H topped up with premium ammunition. 416 rigby budget will go to my next safari
If things go south, I hope my PH will back me up with his big bore.

In both of my DG hunts, I always clarified in advance with my PH to back me up with his rifle if he finds it necessary to do so. Even without charge, just in case of my poor shot placement. I always thought if I screw up, it's better to be covered by PH for a backup shot, rather than to lose high-value animal. That is my way of thinking.

Once we talked about how most of the wounded elephants were lost. He said: Because stupid clients do not want a backup shot. Not because they used 375... or any other DG caliber
I think this sums up the thing.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

347 posts on this?

The OP apologized early on that something was maybe lost in the translation of his Portugese into English and perhaps the thread title is somewhat misleading. I'll cut him some slack.

The buffalo in Brazil are certainly interesting looking critters. Big fellas for sure. I bet they can absorb some punishment. Curious if they have any natural enemies. Jaguar or puma?

 

[HankBuck]

@Tman321
Woodleigh makes a nice 275gn PPSP and a bone crushing 310gn RNSP and solid
Those 310s can be loaded to 2,455fps in the Whelen. Over 4,000fpe of muzzle energy.
Bob

@Bob Nelson 35Whelen - I’ve looked for a .35 Whelen in Remington 760/7600 (older model w/wood stock) pump rifle. While they are occasionally available the price is usually ridiculous ($2000-$3000+). Do you think that Remington 760 pump Action will hold up to hotter .35 Whelen loads? I own two 760s (.30-06 & .308) and love that gun: 1). I’m a Lefty so they are very fast to cycle. 2). Accuracy is good “enough” 3 shots 1.5” @ 100 yrds.
I assume standards loadings for .35 Whelen are fine in a 760 so my Q is only regarding hotter loads. Thanks for your expertise.

 

[375Fox]

347 posts on this?

The OP apologized early on that something was maybe lost in the translation of his Portugese into English and perhaps the thread title is somewhat misleading. I'll cut him some slack.

The buffalo in Brazil are certainly interesting looking critters. Big fellas for sure. I bet they can absorb some punishment. Curious if they have any natural enemies. Jaguar or puma?

He did not apologize and a number of his more hostile comments were deleted. Watch his YouTube channel if anyone wants to see how he hunts. Shooting from the truck and bow blind with rifle appear his most common methods for buffalo and PG. The high fence is a regular sight.

 

[DieJager]

He did not apologize and a number of his more hostile comments were deleted. Watch his YouTube channel if anyone wants to see how he hunts. Shooting from the truck and bow blind with rifle appear his most common methods for buffalo and PG. The high fence is a regular sight.

I stopped the video when he began shooting from the truck. This doesn't look good. Un-sportsmanlike behavior. Also the initial shooting is really close to the fence and then the buffalo comes to the fence and the shooting resumes. Not good.

Thanks for finding these videos.

*Mental note: never talk smack to @375Fox

 

[spike.t]

He did not apologize and a number of his more hostile comments were deleted. Watch his YouTube channel if anyone wants to see how he hunts. Shooting from the truck and bow blind with rifle appear his most common methods for buffalo and PG. The high fence is a regular sight.

Fkn hell....the commentary/ translation was so bloody shit and annoying.......not going to comment on the content as I await the responses.....

 

[Red Leg]

He did not apologize and a number of his more hostile comments were deleted. Watch his YouTube channel if anyone wants to see how he hunts. Shooting from the truck and bow blind with rifle appear his most common methods for buffalo and PG. The high fence is a regular sight.

Use the trackers to drive him into a corner of the ranch. Come on @375Fox - it is just like the Caprivi or the Delta - only different. Then chase him down the fence line in the cruiser - why that is simple efficiency. I mean you don't want to get yourself and the client all hot and bothered before the trip home. And with that sort of shooting, thank God they were using something in forties rather than a .375.

I refused to watch the second video.

 

[grand veneur]

I certainly don't want to defend @Crishuntbrasil . I am saying this in advance so that some people don't accuse me again of something.

The videos are certainly not convincing, but they always reflect a certain cultural background, which is also evident in the way hunting is practiced. I am well-placed to judge such things because I move in two cultural circles, German-speaking and French-speaking. The differences in how hunting is practiced are clear, and this also applies when hunters from this countries hunt in Africa. Spaniards and Italians have also another different concept. I experienced all of these cultures, especially mediterraneans, in West Africa. I don't want to go into details in a public Forum, but as a hunter of german traditions I don't like many things by a lot of this people. Brazilians are certainly more likely to be classified as belonging to the Mediterranean cultural circle, and some of their hunting practices correspond surely accordingly.

Nevertheless, caution is advised regarding the ethics of hunting in Africa in general. We don't know if everything always happens as we imagine, meaning that game are never shot from a vehicle or at a fence.

 

[skydiver386]

I don't see the problem in either video.

Matter of fact, I'm gonna contact the OP right away and order one of those Bespoke Buff trailers. If nothing else, I'll probably enjoy the Banjo music they play while building it.

The Hunting ethics were never in question. I mean other than having Mark Sullivan along to kick that Buff in the Jimmy and make a disparaging remark about his mother, how else do you expect to get his adrenaline up?

And lay off the translation will ya. Things tend to go like a Three Stooges Festival when you're trying to lay out fields of fire from a moving vehicle. Closed Captioning for the Cognitively Impaired ain't easy when you're dodging hot brass and muzzle blast.

 

[revturbo9967]

He did not apologize and a number of his more hostile comments were deleted. Watch his YouTube channel if anyone wants to see how he hunts. Shooting from the truck and bow blind with rifle appear his most common methods for buffalo and PG. The high fence is a regular sight.

Holy crap. Obviously the .375 isn't the right round for buffalo when you're running them down with a truck. They are already alert and correct shot placement is very tough. He's basically preparing the hunt as if a stopping rifle is needed out of the gate.

 

[grand veneur]

The video reflects a hunting culture that is not ours. @Crishuntbrasil hunts in Africa and for this reason has certainly various contacts with hunters from other countries and knows that such videos are in general not well-received. However, he does not recruit his clients from those. In Brazil perhaps, this can be well-received and attract clients.

 

[375er]

To quote W.C. Fields.....go away son you bother me....

 

[Creigh]

The video reflects a hunting culture that is not ours. @Crishuntbrasil hunts in Africa and for this reason has certainly various contacts with hunters from other countries and knows that such videos are in general not well-received. However, he does not recruit his clients from those. In Brazil perhaps, this can be well-received and attract clients.

The cultural differences are apparent in the video. Perhaps I'd call it a differing value system. For example, ambush hunting is for people who hunt for meat, IMO. Chris may find it completely acceptable to hunt Buffalo that way because it's the hunt that matters, not how you got there.
Maybe Chris is learning this place isn't internet friendly.

One other thing to consider is the cost to those who don't have mighty dollars. Maybe this was one of those hunts done for the experience for slightly less.