338/06 or 25/06?

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Speer volume #14 on page 645 shows a maximum speed of 2386 using a 250g spitzer being pushed bty a maximum charge of H335 at 53g of powder. Most of the max charges are in the mid to high 2200's. The 358 Niorma Magnun according to the same book shows its fastest load at 2733 with a 250g bullet ( thos is on page 648). Your 35 Whelen is equaling a 358 Norma?

@jruby

225 sierra SPBTGK, 70gn cfe333
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

View attachment 718765

source: https://www.speer.com/reloading/rifle-data.html

direct link: https://reloadingdata.speer.com/downloads/speer/reloading-pdfs/rifle/35_Whelen_250.pdf

Cheers! Bob F.

@BFaucett
I use 65gn of CFE 223 for a chronoed 2,700fps. My ride must be different.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Speer volume #14 on page 645 shows a maximum speed of 2386 using a 250g spitzer being pushed bty a maximum charge of H335 at 53g of powder. Most of the max charges are in the mid to high 2200's. The 358 Niorma Magnun according to the same book shows its fastest load at 2733 with a 250g bullet ( thos is on page 648). Your 35 Whelen is equaling a 358 Norma?

@jruby
The Whelen loaded to its FULL potential gives the big Swede a shake up
With the 310s you can safely get 2,455 fps for a bucket full of bone crushing devastation.
I know not many use the 310s but they would be great in bigger game like eland and I would have no issues taking in any buffalo that walked if'n it were legal.
Bob
Yes the Swede can be loaded to easily our do the Whelen but the Whelen has enough power for me.
Over 4,000foe is enough for anything I hunt. 2,000foe at 400yards will be enough for any sane range I shoot at. 99% of my hunting is done at less than 200 so more than enough power and shoots flat enough for comfortable 400yd shots
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

It appears that I was wrong. I find it interesting comparing reloading details from different companies can be so different. The numbers that you have shown me are not reflected in the nosler or speer reloading manuals I have. I do trust sierra data and my old gunsmith swore by thier bullets. I will have to finally spend some time with my 35 whelen.

@jruby
Load the Whelen to its potential and you will find it will be the first rifle you grab to hunt with
Bob

 

[BFaucett]

@jruby
The Whelen loaded to its FULL potential gives the big Swede a shake up
With the 310s you can safely get 2,455 fps for a bucket full of bone crushing devastation.
I know not many use the 310s but they would be great in bigger game like eland and I would have no issues taking in any buffalo that walked if'n it were legal.
Bob
... <snip>...

A little off topic but speaking of heavy bullets in the '06 case, I've got a couple of boxes of these little puppies sitting in my gun supplies closet:

I've had them since shortly after they were introduced but I've never tried to load any of them. Woodleigh did list some load data in their product brochure (see the attached pdf file) when the bullets were announced.

I did use the Woodleigh 220 gr RN in my Ruger M77 Mk II .30-06 in South Africa way back in 2002. My handload velocity was 2460 fps (chronographed 10-shoot average; rounded to nearest 5 fps). I was very pleased with the performance.

As one example, they worked great on this guy:

And for those folks that think such a "slow", heavy (high sectional density) bullet won't cause much damage, here's that Warthog's heart back at the skinning shed:

Just my ramblings and musings. . . Cheers! Bob F.

 

[MS 9x56]

@jruby
It's in their online data.
Sierra list The 225 soft points boat tail game king for 70gn of CFE 223.
Bob

But Bob I already have all the 35’s sans the 350 magnum and the 358 Swede.

 

[MS 9x56]

A little off topic but speaking of heavy bullets in the '06 case, I've got a couple of boxes of these little puppies sitting in my gun supplies closet:


View attachment 718801


I've had them since shortly after they were introduced but I've never tried to load any of them. Woodleigh did list some load data in their product brochure (see the attached pdf file) when the bullets were announced.


View attachment 718804


I did use the Woodleigh 220 gr RN in my Ruger M77 Mk II .30-06 in South Africa way back in 2002. My handload velocity was 2460 fps (chronographed 10-shoot average; rounded to nearest 5 fps). I was very pleased with the performance.


View attachment 718816


As one example, they worked great on this guy:

View attachment 718808


And for those folks that think such a "slow", heavy (high sectional density) bullet won't cause much damage, here's that Warthog's heart back at the skinning shed:


View attachment 718809


Just my ramblings and musings. . . Cheers! Bob F.

Bob I loaded some 250 grain round nose in my 06 and got 2350 fps with CFE 223. Haven’t had the opportunity on game yet but they group well into a 1.25” group at 100 yards.

 

[Grumpy gumpy]

Bob F , I’ve not used those 250gn in my 30-06 , but the 220’s go pretty well in it. Though it’s a bit loud as it’s a cavalry carbine
Gumpy

 

[DG870]

Sounds like the OP has rifles that cover the mid bores well so the 338-06 would just sit in the safe. The 25-06 would be a good rifle for antelope, deer and coyotes and an easy rifle to find ammo for or to reload for. The 280 Remington would be a good round for general hunting too or just leave it as a 30-06 and shoot it as is. The beauty of the Savage rifle is you could get a barrel vice and a savage barrel nut wrench and make it a switch barrel rifle and have all 3 cartridges. I have an older Savage 110C that I converted to 338-06. Easy to reload and pleasant to shoot. There are really no bad choices in the 30-06 family of cartridges.

 

[FlyGuy]

Lol Bob i know the 270 is a great cartridge but it never pulled my strings like some others have. I just saw that my original post had a typo, I have plans for a 257WBY but I don't actually own one yet. My meager stable of bolt guns is: 243, 308, (2)30-06, 300WM, 338WM (that one is actually a Belgium made BAR), 340WBY, 35Whelen, 375H&H, 416 Ruger and 460WBY. A 458WM, 257WBY and 416 Rigby are on my short list of 'will haves' with the 257 probably the next one. I don't have very many gaps in my lineup until you get to the 500's I'm just trying to figure out what to make this ugly Savage into. BTW you are absolutely right about the 35Whelen, I love that rifle.

With that “small” collection of bolt guns, converting an 06 into something other than a 280, 280AI or 25-06 seems rather pointless.
You could always go 30-06 AI, or ream a barrel with the 30-06 Serengeti reamer, longer throat and send the heavy missiles a long way, al la German Salazar style.

What is missing from your collection and will function with an 06 bolt face and magazine is a 7x57….

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Sounds like the OP has rifles that cover the mid bores well so the 338-06 would just sit in the safe. The 25-06 would be a good rifle for antelope, deer and coyotes and an easy rifle to find ammo for or to reload for. The 280 Remington would be a good round for general hunting too or just leave it as a 30-06 and shoot it as is. The beauty of the Savage rifle is you could get a barrel vice and a savage barrel nut wrench and make it a switch barrel rifle and have all 3 cartridges. I have an older Savage 110C that I converted to 338-06. Easy to reload and pleasant to shoot. There are really no bad choices in the 30-06 family of cartridges.
View attachment 718957

@DG870
To me there is one bad choice in the 06 family, that being the 270win. A much over raterd over hyped cartridge. If'n Jack O'Connor didn't sing it's praises it would be an almost cartridge. To me the 280 REM is a far better round but unfortunately needs hand loading to bring out it's potential.
Bob

 

[375er]

Just choose the 25-06 and live happily ever after.

 

[Rick HOlbert]

Since I found me a Ruger African in 35 Whelen I have no use turning my Savage 111 06 into one. I've always liked the 2506 but I also had very insane for a 257 Wby so idk if the 25 would be wasted. But I also have a 338WM a 340Wby and now a 35 awhelen so maybe the 338/08 would be pointless too. What do guys think? Or is there another interesting 06 conversation caliber? Thanks

Friend, go with the 338-06! A natural descendant of the 333OKH (if you're an Elmer Keith fan) and does it work. With modern powders and a more efficient combustion chamber, it comes very close to 338 Win Mag performance using less powder and less recoil. 2700fps with 225grn bullets no problem and that's not max. Just happens to be the most accurate in my rifle. I took a monster Kudu last year and he went 40 yards and piled up. A close friend took a 9ft coastal grizzly at 200 yards. frontal chest shot hitting the bear inside the right shoulder, then exited the left hip. Went 50 yards then expired. Bottom line, one of my favorite medium bore rifles. You won't regret it.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Friend, go with the 338-06! A natural descendant of the 333OKH (if you're an Elmer Keith fan) and does it work. With modern powders and a more efficient combustion chamber, it comes very close to 338 Win Mag performance using less powder and less recoil. 2700fps with 225grn bullets no problem and that's not max. Just happens to be the most accurate in my rifle. I took a monster Kudu last year and he went 40 yards and piled up. A close friend took a 9ft coastal grizzly at 200 yards. frontal chest shot hitting the bear inside the right shoulder, then exited the left hip. Went 50 yards then expired. Bottom line, one of my favorite medium bore rifles. You won't regret it.

@Rick HOlbert
The shame of it.
A 35 guy recommending a 338.
That is a horrible thing to tell someone.
Your little 358 performance is better than the 338 and game doesn't go as far after being shot
I will have to have a serious talk with you when I see you.
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha
Bob

 

[Axle2010]

Friend, go with the 338-06! A natural descendant of the 333OKH (if you're an Elmer Keith fan) and does it work. With modern powders and a more efficient combustion chamber, it comes very close to 338 Win Mag performance using less powder and less recoil. 2700fps with 225grn bullets no problem and that's not max. Just happens to be the most accurate in my rifle. I took a monster Kudu last year and he went 40 yards and piled up. A close friend took a 9ft coastal grizzly at 200 yards. frontal chest shot hitting the bear inside the right shoulder, then exited the left hip. Went 50 yards then expired. Bottom line, one of my favorite medium bore rifles. You won't regret it.

Yes sir I am a big Elmer Keith fan! I'm starting to think Mr Bob Nelson might be on to something and get a barrel in each caliber maybe one in 375 Whelen or 280AI too. There's just too many cool cartridges out there for an old broke redneck to have one of each. And for some reason I love the sound of that 358 Norma mag but can see no viable reason to get one. But it's fun to get in here and read you gents and your experiences with them. If not for yall I would never have gone beyond the 300 WinMag.

 

[MS 9x56]

With that “small” collection of bolt guns, converting an 06 into something other than a 280, 280AI or 25-06 seems rather pointless.
You could always go 30-06 AI, or ream a barrel with the 30-06 Serengeti reamer, longer throat and send the heavy missiles a long way, al la German Salazar style.

What is missing from your collection and will function with an 06 bolt face and magazine is a 7x57….

Or 8x57 or 9x57,or9.3x57 , or 9.3x62.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Yes sir I am a big Elmer Keith fan! I'm starting to think Mr Bob Nelson might be on to something and get a barrel in each caliber maybe one in 375 Whelen or 280AI too. There's just too many cool cartridges out there for an old broke redneck to have one of each. And for some reason I love the sound of that 358 Norma mag but can see no viable reason to get one. But it's fun to get in here and read you gents and your experiences with them. If not for yall I would never have gone beyond the 300 WinMag.

@Axle2010
Y'all don't need a 358 Norma mag if'n y'all got a Whelen.
Dang real rednecks have been stokin things up since the beginning of time. They ain't happy with standard shit. Cars, guns, moonshine whatever the faster, stronger bigger the better.
Just get yourself a Whelen, stoke it up properly ( safely) and go and kill shit.
You can send a 180 gn TTSX 35 cal down the tube of a CVA single shot at around 3,200fps safely. That there's better than a 300 win mag. Or stoke a 250 grainer in it at 2,700 fps for bigger critters.
Bob