.308 Win vs .260 Rem/6.5 Creedmoor

MerKuryM8

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Hello everyone, this is my first time posting, so I hope I'm doing this right.

I am just about to jump into my first rifle (intending on getting a Howa 1500 Barrel Action), here in Namibia, for Hunting (Warthog up to Gemsbok on our own property) with ranges varying between 50m and 400m (or more, but I'll need to get lots of practice first) and steel/paper out to a maximum of 1600m, depending on ballistic performance.

I guess that the .308 Win would probably be best within 300m for hunting, but having just recently watched a family hunt by John X Safaris, 2 young kids shooting with a 6.5 Creedmoor (even Gemsbok at I believe 480 yards), got me thinking whether it is necessary to go with the "old, trusty" .308, or whether it might be better to get a 6.5CM/.260 Rem which have less recoil with better long range performance.
Of course, factory ammo availability would always be a factor, but I intend on getting into reloading towards the end of next year.
 
First rifle, stick with the 308. Definitely a better all purppse round. You can hunt any plains game out there with it, including eland with the right bullet and reasonable range. The 6.5 is not meant for heavier game. As for long range applications, it's been used in long range competitions for decades for a reason. And your choices of both factory ammo and handloading supplies for it are second to none.
Get good with it and then try out one of the 6.5s for more specific applications.
 
I'll agree with @Ryan on this one. The .260/6.5cm/6.5X47 trio are all great cartridges. They have their place and with the right bullets they will do a good job. I'd suggest that the .308 eill do anything they will do and do it better. The trio is at its best with around a 130 gr bullet. The .308 shines with a 165-168 gr bullet and does fine with a 180. Any are fine for longer range shooting. Just has to have the accuracy and practice for that. Check for ammo availability before you buy....
Bruce
 
I get the argument that some people make about the 6.5 creedmore and the .280 Rem being "flatter" shooting cartridges, and thereby better for shooting at greater distances..

But.. here's the truth..

The US Army prior to the War on Terror was pretty much using .308 exclusively in bolt action rifles for single target engagements out to 600 yards, and the USMC was "sniping" with the .308 out to 1000 yards..

With the right bullet, right glass, and the right shooter behind it, a well built .308 is more than accurate and flat shooting enough to shoot at PG sized animals out to 300 yards with ease, and is much more versatile overall when you start considering the wide variety of type and weights available in projectiles, factory ammo, etc..etc..

For me, in the scenario you describe, the .308 is the hands down winner..
 
Thank you for the replies!
I will be going to my local store soon to check the availability on ammunition.
I think I should have said earlier, that I only intend on harvesting Warthog, Springbuck and Impala sized game out to 400m for now, but only if necessary. Most of our opportunities come within 200m here, other than Warthogs which we see in a large dry lake, where longer shots might be in the books.
We do have a .30-06 in the family, which can be used for Eland and if necessary Gemsbok as well. I also intend on having my next firearm be something along the lines of a .300 Win Mag, pretty much regardless of what I purchase now.
With that in mind, would that sway in favor of the 6.5mms?
 
Agree with the general sentiment - 308 Win is definitely a better choice for a first rifle.
 
@MerKuryM8

Generally for hunting of large plains game, ask your self, what is heavier bullet with more punch (energy) in any of the three that you mentioned?

Secondly, ask your self what is availability of ammunition in local shops?

For the first question, answer is 308 win, and for the sencond question, answer is also 308 win.
 
Hello everyone, this is my first time posting, so I hope I'm doing this right.

I am just about to jump into my first rifle (intending on getting a Howa 1500 Barrel Action), here in Namibia, for Hunting (Warthog up to Gemsbok on our own property) with ranges varying between 50m and 400m (or more, but I'll need to get lots of practice first) and steel/paper out to a maximum of 1600m, depending on ballistic performance.

I guess that the .308 Win would probably be best within 300m for hunting, but having just recently watched a family hunt by John X Safaris, 2 young kids shooting with a 6.5 Creedmoor (even Gemsbok at I believe 480 yards), got me thinking whether it is necessary to go with the "old, trusty" .308, or whether it might be better to get a 6.5CM/.260 Rem which have less recoil with better long range performance.
Of course, factory ammo availability would always be a factor, but I intend on getting into reloading towards the end of next year.

The Creedmoor is simply a modem day equivalent to the 6.5x55. Gemsbok at 480 yards is not something I'm willing to do but the 6.5 at reasonable ranges with reasonably constructed bullets would in my opinion be adequate although on the light end for Gemsbok size game. You have a century worth of data from the 6.5x55 to prove it. It's going to shoot a bit flatter and be less effected by wind drift with comparable CD bullets (as velocity will be higher) but I doubt it's going to be enough to matter at 300 yards (or meters).. It's going to have considerably less recoil for a given rifle weight.

I suspect ammo might be a bit more expensive in Namibia for the foreseeable future compared to .308 Win. Although in the USA it has already passed the .308 Win and the .30/06 in new rifle sales so I don't expect it to remain so with commercial ammo sales in the USA in the near future although the Milsurp type stuff will continue to be cheaper in 7.62x51 (.308 Win).

If I knew I was going to shoot a lot of Gemsbok I would want a .30/06 with 180 gr bullets (Once you get that heavy .308 Win loses a lot of speed). If smaller gane were going to be my primary quarry with only an occasional Gemsbok I would go with the 6.5 CM with 140 grain bullets. The .308 Win would be the compromise between the two although I'm not a big fan of going above 165 grain bullets on the .308 Win.
 
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Not sure how much shooting experience you already have, but I’d recommend the .308. Little more punch so you’ll have a little more margin for error. 6.5 is a phenomenal round, but as you go down in size, the more precise you need to be.

I might be a little biased though as a .308 fanboy
 
You are all so biased! Haha!
I will still consult my local GS and some PHs that are friends, but it seems set that the .308 will probably be the best option. Ammo for it should always be available here and the hunting performance will be the best. About my shooting experience, so far it's been 3 warthogs with an '06, without any practice shots (only a lot of research and some guidance from my father), 2 shots from a .270 at paper and between 100 and 150 .22LR shots over the past ~2 years
I was trying to give the little 6.5s all the advantage I could! Maybe one day when I have a bigger rifle, I'll rebarrel a .308 to .260, for small-medium PG.
Thank you all for the answers!
 
Namibia does not have an ammunition factory.
Where on Earth, did you dig out 260 rem?
My friend in Croatia has 260 rem, and in order to get ammo for this, he must neck down 308 win casing, or neck up 243 casing. There is no ammunition in any shop for this in my country.
I dont think, it will be any easier in Namibia, or you have to consider to start reloading.

If yo do not reload, then you have to consider "boring" all around available vanilla calibers, that you will have in local gun shop. That is first consideration for you.

Second consideration:
Power. Energy. Check Namibian regulations for calibers/energy, and choose your caliber to be in that range.

Minimum energy (Eo - muzzle velocity)
  • 1350 Joule for springbuck, duiker etc.
  • 2700 Joule for Hartebeest, Wildebeest, Kudu, Gemsbuck, Eland etc.
  • 5400 Joule for Buffalo, Elephant, Rhino etc.
 
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Well just so you know I don't currently own a 6.5CM, .308 Win or .30/06 so I tried to lay it out as honestly as I knew how.

A 6.5 can do the job on a Gemsbuck but is on a light side and ammo will be cheaper on the .308 Win in your local and I would actually prefer a .30/06 with 180's on a Gemsbuck. I doubt that varies much from the info you got from knowledgeable local sources. .308 Win is at it's beat with 150-168 gr bullets.

The reality is the tool makes less difference than the mechanic.

You would know your local regulations better than I and how they are inforced so I leave that up to you
 
Definitely not the 260 rem. Hardly any ammo or reloading supplies.
If you would want to go 6.5 I would choose the 6.5x55.
That being said seeing that you want to get a 300 winmag , I would definitely get the 308. It would make reloading easier as well if you do get into reloading
 
The .260 Rem came up for me, because my Local GS had a Tikka T3x .260 Rem on display. I'm not all too sure about ammo availability yet though - but I do like the sound of it.
I didn't even think about the reloading side, making .308 and .300 win mag a better combination - that's a very good point! Less pieces to buy will be a good thing.
As for the minimum Energy and bullet diameters, I believe those only apply to international/guest hunters as a reference or recommendation for the minimums, but I will need to do more research on that.
I think that whichever one I end up with, I will probably love it. Thank you all!
 
The caliber requirement, in legal form, might (or might not) apply to international clients.
But it CERTAINLY applies to ethical hunter. You need energey to bring down certain size of animal.

Shot placement is important, but if you depend on surgical shot placement you are heavily reducing your shooting options in hunting, or you are accepting wounding as possibility. Both of this is not good.

The history of hunting (in Africa) has started with both theories, almost 100 years ago. Those two theories are:

1. Small caliber and exact bullet placement (Karamojo Bell)
2. Large enough caliber, and even larger for bigger game (Pondoro Taylor, and Ruark)

Today, the industry, the best industry practice, legal requirements per country, and hunting ethics absoulutely accepts ONLY the second theory.

Most famous and quoted sentence in African hunting is Ruarks - "bring enoguh gun".
 
I cannot disagree with you - from what I have found online, Energy and bullet construction are a close second to shot placement.
According to Nosler Load Data, the 130Gr travels at around 2800fps, which produces just over 3100 Joules (roughly 2300ft-lbs), which is well over what NAPHA has as a recommendation. The 165Gr .308s at 2700fps, produces 3620 Joules (2670ft-lbs).
I'm not experienced, so I really don't know what the true difference is between a slower 165Gr or 180 Gr vs a faster 130Gr or 140Gr would do to an animal, nor what that energy difference really looks like in practice.
I personally would guess it comes down to what bullet you have, if the energy is equal (which would only be at 300-400m, which is out of my range until I have practiced enough)
The extra leeway from the .308 will probably be a good benefit though, starting out and learning. That and almost guaranteed ammo availability and possibly better prices as well, which means more practice.
I guess it is the trusty .308 for a reason! I can't say I wasn't hoping that more people would recommend a 6.5 though.. I don't know what it is, but I like the sound of it.
 

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