300 WSM compared to the 300wm? 300HH?

Gomer said:

For rings, I use Leupold Backcountry ringmounts on my Tikkas. Almost like beefier talley lightweights.

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Comment / question ..... the set up of the scope looks really low ?! Is it just the picture or does the Leupold sit v low on the action ?

PS sorry not to distract from the thread
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I have a .300 WSM in a Browning A-bolt that has a BOSS on it. While it’s as loud as an artillery piece it’s incredibly accurate. It shoots the 200 grain ELD-X really well which was a pleasant surprise considering it’s an older rifle.

I'm going to offer a differing opinion than a lot of guys have thus far. Given that you currently own and effectively shoot a 30-06, you are splitting hairs to a point of diminishing return. The difference between 30-06 and 300wsm or wm is no more that the difference between 308 and 30-06. Inside of 400 yards and shooting light for caliber 165 class bullets you are effectively burning more powder and enduring more recoil for a 200fps, in 24" barrels and ideal conditions, difference. Shooting factory ammo you gain next to nothing in reality. 30 cal magnums shine when shooting heavy bullets at extended ranges, inside of 500 yards the 30-06 will do everything they do with an extra round in the magazine.

Wyit76 said:

I'm going to offer a differing opinion than a lot of guys have thus far. Given that you currently own and effectively shoot a 30-06, you are splitting hairs to a point of diminishing return. The difference between 30-06 and 300wsm or wm is no more that the difference between 308 and 30-06. Inside of 400 yards and shooting light for caliber 165 class bullets you are effectively burning more powder and enduring more recoil for a 200fps, in 24" barrels and ideal conditions, difference. Shooting factory ammo you gain next to nothing in reality. 30 cal magnums shine when shooting heavy bullets at extended ranges, inside of 500 yards the 30-06 will do everything they do with an extra round in the magazine.

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Tend to agree when inside 400, and my two favorite rifles are my 300 wm and 300 wsm both built by Hill Country Rifles. But if you might have occasion to stretch range to 500-600 (under perfect conditions) on larger game, then the 300s shine. My wsm has become my favorite. Built on a Defiance XM action with a 1:8 twist barrel to accommodate longer projectiles, my go to bullet is the 208 grain Barnes LRX. It's a stomper. Can get away with a 22 inch barrel and matched with a shorter backcountry suppressor it's not too long to manage, whereas my 24 inch wm gets a bit wonky on the sling and too long for scabbard.

Wyit76 said:

I'm going to offer a differing opinion than a lot of guys have thus far. Given that you currently own and effectively shoot a 30-06, you are splitting hairs to a point of diminishing return. The difference between 30-06 and 300wsm or wm is no more that the difference between 308 and 30-06. Inside of 400 yards and shooting light for caliber 165 class bullets you are effectively burning more powder and enduring more recoil for a 200fps, in 24" barrels and ideal conditions, difference. Shooting factory ammo you gain next to nothing in reality. 30 cal magnums shine when shooting heavy bullets at extended ranges, inside of 500 yards the 30-06 will do everything they do with an extra round in the magazine.

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I would agree to 300, but there is a significant difference at 400. I start the same 150gr TTSX at 2950 and 3350 respectively. 180gr bullets 2825 vs 3100. 200gr bullets at 2650 vs 2950. With 180gr bullets, I have 6 inches difference in drop at 400 and a significant energy gap that favors the 300.

Gomer said:

I would agree to 300, but there is a significant difference at 400. I start the same 150gr TTSX at 2950 and 3350 respectively. 180gr bullets 2825 vs 3100. 200gr bullets at 2650 vs 2950. With 180gr bullets, I have 6 inches difference in drop at 400 and a significant energy gap that favors the 300.

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I don't believe you can get those differences shooting factory ammo which OP stated he plans to do. If you hand load then the WSM can do some very impressive things but in factory loaded ammo my numbers stand. The 30-06 still carries more than enough energy and velocity to be a viable option out to 500 yards with proper bullets. The difference in bullet drop is also negligible if you have even a half decent optic with a dial. 20 years ago bullet drop at range was a legitimate concern, now it is a mute point.

Wyit76 said:

I don't believe you can get those differences shooting factory ammo which OP stated he plans to do. If you hand load then the WSM can do some very impressive things but in factory loaded ammo my numbers stand. The 30-06 still carries more than enough energy and velocity to be a viable option out to 500 yards with proper bullets. The difference in bullet drop is also negligible if you have even a half decent optic with a dial. 20 years ago bullet drop at range was a legitimate concern, now it is a mute point.

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Of course the 30-06 is enough! That was never a question. But when hunters talk cartridges, we can pick nits all day long. With the 30-06s I have, I wouldn’t buy a WSM. Honestly, everything I’ve hunted could have easily been taken with a 30-06.

But, I’ve never met a belted 300 magnum I didn’t like just a little bit better.

Gomer said:

Of course the 30-06 is enough! That was never a question. But when hunters talk cartridges, we can pick nits all day long. With the 30-06s I have, I wouldn’t buy a WSM. Honestly, everything I’ve hunted could have easily been taken with a 30-06.

But, I’ve never met a belted 300 magnum I didn’t like just a little bit better.

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I definitely differ from you on that argument! I am an avid opponent to the 300 magnums and for a long time the 30 caliber in general! The 300prc and 30-06 are the only 30cal cartridges that have wormed their way into my collection. Admittedly though the 300 H&H is sure trying to find a home in my safe since I have started looking into Africa more. I am a sucker for items of a bygone generation unfortunately.

I have hunted with all three and like all three. If I had to rank them, it would be 300 HH then 300 WM, then 300 WSM.
My sole reason is how easy the HH cartridge feeds. No other reason.

I take almost no shots past 300 yds so they are all ballistically equals.

^^^ this ^^^

I’ve owned and hunted all theee, and currently hunt a 300 prc as my primary 300 magnum.

No animal is going to know the difference between the three options out to 300… and if you know you’re going to regularly shoot past 300, I’d consider stepping into something more like the PRC that gives you a bit more FPS and a little less drop and better BC for the longer shots..

To each his own though.. it really depends on what you want… h&h has nostalgia and easy feeding… wsm gets you into a short action… win mag gets you the widest variety of factory ammo and you’ll find options at every Walmart and academy sports in the US..

I would suggest taking a look at the 300 Weatherby Magnum. Their Vanguard line is extremely accurate, and it will not break the bank. Factory ammo is easily available now that their production moved to Wyoming.

To me the reason to go to a 30 magnum is the ability to shoot heavier bullets to the same or similar trajectory a lighter one would be in the 30-06. For that reason I would go all the way to the 300 PRC for the faster twist bbl. If you didn’t want to do that I’d go with the 300 WM.

Although if I had to choose between 300 win and 300 wby I would go with the weatherby. But I’m weird and always prefer a longer action to a shorter one.

My 2¢, Other options are the 300 Norma Mag, .30 Nosler and for a wildcat, the 30-28 Nosler. The latter has most .30 mags beat.

Russ16 said:

To me the reason to go to a 30 magnum is the ability to shoot heavier bullets to the same or similar trajectory a lighter one would be in the 30-06. For that reason I would go all the way to the 300 PRC for the faster twist bbl. If you didn’t want to do that I’d go with the 300 WM.

Although if I had to choose between 300 win and 300 wby I would go with the weatherby. But I’m weird and always prefer a longer action to a shorter one.

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Why do you need a faster twist rate than 1:10 on a 30 caliber? 1:10 stabilizes 225gr ELD-M and 230gr Bergers just fine.

The high BC/twist rate narrative applied to other calibers, but the 30 and 33 calibers have had faster twisted barrels for a while. The 1903 Springfield was twisted 1:10 from the beginning.

Gomer said:

Why do you need a faster twist rate than 1:10 on a 30 caliber? 1:10 stabilizes 225gr ELD-M and 230gr Bergers just fine.

The high BC/twist rate narrative applied to other calibers, but the 30 and 33 calibers have had faster twisted barrels for a while. The 1903 Springfield was twisted 1:10 from the beginning.

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It isn't as important with the 30 calibers but can be, and some people want to go up to even heavier bullets. Not all 1:10 bbls stabilize the heavier bullets as well. My point was if I wanted a fast 30 cal I would want one that was optimized for heavy bullets with the option to go as heavy as possible.

Gomer said:

Why do you need a faster twist rate than 1:10 on a 30 caliber? 1:10 stabilizes 225gr ELD-M and 230gr Bergers just fine.

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I think you'll find most of the really fast 30 mags and/or 30 mags designed to handle the high BC bullets come from the factory with faster than 1:10...

Most 300 PRC are 1:9 or 1:8 depending on the manufacturer..

300 Rem Ultra Mags that are designed for the heavier bullets usually come from the factory with 1:9 or 1:8

Nosler factory rifles in 30 Nosler come with a 1:9 twist from the factory.. most of the premium barrel makers that produce 30 Nosler barrels make them in 1:9, 1:8.5, or 1:8..

They. are all very close ballistically and performance wise. However, .300 Win Mag ammo is widely available worldwide. Cost of reloading components, and component availability favors the .300 Win Mag.

If it sounds like I'm a big fan of the .300 Win Mag, you're right!!

For reference: my Tikka T3x Roughtech 300wsm launches Barnes 168TTSX at 3210 fps (these are custom loads by Superior Ammo) and my custom 300saum shoots factory Barnes 175LRX 2990fps and factory Nosler 180 partitions 2935fps from 22" barrel.

With the ranges you suggest and the inclination for a suppressor I would consider a 20" barrel 300WSM. It should still exceed your 30-06 but in a more comfortable package. You're not going to get 3000fps with 180s, but for your intended ranges it is not necessary. I think the short barrel is where the short mags earn their keep.

mdwest said:

I think you'll find most of the really fast 30 mags and/or 30 mags designed to handle the high BC bullets come from the factory with faster than 1:10...

Most 300 PRC are 1:9 or 1:8 depending on the manufacturer..

300 Rem Ultra Mags that are designed for the heavier bullets usually come from the factory with 1:9 or 1:8

Nosler factory rifles in 30 Nosler come with a 1:9 twist from the factory.. most of the premium barrel makers that produce 30 Nosler barrels make them in 1:9, 1:8.5, or 1:8..

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And none of that is necessary. It’s just manipulation by the manufacturer to make their product look different. It appeals to the LR crowd, or at least the LR wannabes. The same guys I see at the range with $2800 Nightforce scopes who can’t figure out how to bore-sight their rifle.

Says you..

But not proof research, bartlien, krieger, hart, lilja, shilen, benchmark, brux, lothar walther, douglass or a host of other premium barrel makers that are used in some of the finest custom builds on the planet..

The list of long range champions that compete with various 300 mags using a 1:8 or 1:9 twist is significantly longer than the list of champions that compete with 1:10.. I'd say there is a reason for that, that likely goes beyond gross manipulation of what is a fairly tiny market..

Wannabes are everywhere.. every range has a half dozen tacticool dudes with tricked out AR15s they cant keep running and a half dozen elmer fudds calling themselves hunters trying trick shots with their daddys 30-06... its not limited to the LR crowd.. if anything I have found it less prevalent in the LR crowd because the price to play in those circles is very high..

and who is manipulating by the way? all of the premium manufacturers are in some sort of conspiracy to convince buyers to go with a faster twist rate, which doesnt make them look different.. it actually makes them look the same since theyre all doing it.. what major manufacturer are you aware of that started with a 1:10 300 PRC is still producing it? if there is one, I'll bet my next paycheck there are 5 others that have moved away from 1:10...

how exactly do they benefit from your supposed manipulation? you think brux sells more 1:9 twist 300 PRC barrels because that sounds sexier to a guy building out a custom LR gun than a 1:10 twist? All they care about is selling more barrels.. which requires the barrel to perform..

you think the cartridge designer is forcing the barrel makers to go with faster twist rates? how would Hornady benefit from that? All they care about is selling more ammo.. which would require the caretridge to perform..