Classic stalking rifles - today

Jack Stevens said:

I agree. ….. But I’ve often wondered, especially with the hard-kicking magnums, how many builders actually put in the range time to verify that POA will equal POI with a standard load.

Say, in the case of the .375H&H, that a standard 270grn or 300 grn load, using the first standing leaf, will hit dead center @ 60-yds. Then going on to regulate the second (folding) leaf such that that POA equals POI @ 100- or 150-yds. And etc. if there are 3rd or 4th folding leaves as on the old school quarter-rib sights.

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For my Rigby highland stalker it has regulated sights for 65,150 and 250y. Out to 150m the 65m sight is pretty well point of aim. If I flick up the 150y at 150m it’s too high. And it’s regulated for hornady interlock 285gr while I’m using 293gr RWS uni classics.

Go figure.

For practical purposes I like one fixed rear sight at 100m and one folding leaf for 200m. As much as I love irons, I can’t/wont shoot game passed that range.

My 1935 Mauser has only one fixed blade, strong, regulated at 100 m with any 175 grs bullet at 2600 p/s.
In my BRNO ZKK 600 9,3X62 y use the peep sight regulated at 100 m with any 286 grs bullet at 2450 p/s.

JPbowhunter said:

For practical purposes I like one fixed rear sight at 100m and one folding leaf for 200m. As much as I love irons, I can’t/wont shoot game passed that range.

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Sorta the same here. 250yds max, or I won’t take the shot, especially on large African animals. If the PH is pushing me to send it, that’s when he gets the big ol’ stink eye. It’s my hunt, not his. I don’t want to miss, and I damn sure don’t want to have to track a wounded animal for 6-hours when that time could be spent stalking the next animal on my trophy list.

Hence, why I say: stalking closer is never a bad strategy.

Jack Stevens said:

Sorta the same here. 250yds max, or I won’t take the shot, especially on large African animals. If the PH is pushing me to send it, that’s when he gets the big ol’ stink eye. It’s my hunt, not his. I don’t want to miss, and I damn sure don’t want to have to track a wounded animal for 6-hours when that time could be spent stalking the next animal on my trophy list.

Hence, why I say: stalking closer is never a bad strategy.

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In days gone by, we called that hunting.

Folks can’t seem to be content to see an animal and not shoot it whatever the range these days. But that’s a whole other topic.

One thing I love about irons is that they force you to hunt and close the distance. There’s no cheating it.

JPbowhunter said:

In days gone by, we called that hunting.

Folks can’t seem to be content to see an animal and not shoot it whatever the range these days. But that’s a whole other topic.

One thing I love about irons is that they force you to hunt and close the distance. There’s no cheating it.

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Field craft skills are also in the toilet. How many people spend a million or 5 on magic scent lock cammo and treestands and tower blinds

farmer_john said:

Field craft skills are also in the toilet. How many people spend a million or 5 on magic scent lock cammo and treestands and tower blinds

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This is as close to camo as I go.

My favourite stalking rifle too and favourite method of hunting, solo tracking.

JPbowhunter said:

This is as close to camo as I go.

My favourite stalking rifle too and favourite method of hunting, solo tracking.
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Is that a .303 Lee Speed Sporter?

Looks like the rifle Val Kilmer used in The Ghost & The Darkness movie.

Jack Stevens said:

Is that a .303 Lee Speed Sporter?

Looks like the rifle Val Kilmer used in The Ghost & The Darkness movie.

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It is, I’ve loved Lee Speed’s since I watched that movie as a kid and always wanted one.

Mine was done by William Garden in Scotland somewhere between 1896-1904 from the features and proof marks. It has some nice scroll work, flat rib barrel and a decent stock. The barrel is worn but it still shoots surprisingly tight groups, no qualms shooting game to 150m or so if I do my part.

As an aside, 303 is a criminally underrated cartridge for medium game.

Reading about open sights. We forget that in days past hunters could successfully use them to 300mts on medium sized and larger game.

I learnt to use my M94 30-30 on rabbits to about 100mts. When I put a Lyman peep sight on that went out to about 150mts and medium sized game to 250mts, at a stretch, normally 200mts. It was just practice to be able to do this. Wish I still had that eyesight. It is why I often use an Aimpoint or similar, 2MOA dot and can still hit things where they need to be hit at 300 mts with a rest when using them.

Open sights are becoming a lost art, so is stalking it seems.

Rule 303 said:

Reading about open sights. We forget that in days past hunters could successfully use them to 300mts on medium sized and larger game.

I learnt to use my M94 30-30 on rabbits to about 100mts. When I put a Lyman peep sight on that went out to about 150mts and medium sized game to 250mts, at a stretch, normally 200mts. It was just practice to be able to do this. Wish I still had that eyesight. It is why I often use an Aimpoint or similar, 2MOA dot and can still hit things where they need to be hit at 300 mts with a rest when using them.

Open sights are becoming a lost art, so is stalking it seems.

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Absolutely, I’m a big Corbett fan and I can recall several instances of him discussing longer range.

The talla Des mandated he shaved the hair off its belly at nearly 400y. He also talked in one of his stories about a large sambar stag and mentioned there was a position he could take which would make for an easy shot when it came to feed at around 250-300y.

I know for me it’s purely that I don’t practice enough that I can’t shoot further.

I just bought a full stock Steyr zephyr 22lr for my kids to learn on and I’ve told them they need to master irons before moving to scopes.

It’s sad to see the way hunting skills are being lost to technology. I’m mid 30’s and I think I was the last generation that grew up with stalking and what we now call short range hunting as the norm. Mind you, my brothers and friends have all fallen into the long range, thermal etc. traps. Everyone wants everything now, including big stags and if there’s a shortcut to it too many will take it. We’re losing our respect for what we hunt which is why we see more of these shooters referring to deer as “pests” than hunters regarding them as “game”. I think it’s really going to come back and bite us too.

Anyway, apologies for the tangent!

JPbowhunter said:

Curious to get the views of folks here, particularly those with experience of both.

If you had the opportunity to buy either a Steyr Mannlicher schoenauer Gk or Brno 21h, which direction would you go?

I think my factory option is now pretty much only down to a heym sr21 super classic.

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How much would you like to spend? If not a great deal, then the Mannlicher GK. If you'd like to spend much more, I would call Herr Meidler: https://www.miedler-waffen.at/en-gb/home

SaintPanzer said:

How much would you like to spend? If not a great deal, then the Mannlicher GK. If you'd like to spend much more, I would call Herr Meidler: https://www.miedler-waffen.at/en-gb/home

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is that a new mannlicher reciever?

farmer_john said:

is that a new mannlicher reciever?

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Yes, exactly. Hr. Meidler worked as an apprentice for one of the last Steyr employees. He's now re-making them. The catalog is downloadable, and yes, you can still get a Stützen stock. He currently lists on his site ready to go a .30-06 in stock for about 7,000 euro.

SaintPanzer said:

Yes, exactly. Hr. Meidler worked as an apprentice for one of the last Steyr employees. He's now re-making them. The catalog is downloadable, and yes, you can still get a Stützen stock. He currently lists on his site ready to go a .30-06 in stock for about 7,000 euro.

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I did not see a 1903 mannlicher stock or hardware on his sight?

farmer_john said:

I did not see a 1903 mannlicher stock or hardware on his sight?

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It looks like the link to the catalog is broken. I have it somewhere. Completed guns and parts are listed in the "shop" tab. https://shop.miedler-waffen.at/Mannlicher-Schoenauer

JPbowhunter said:

I just bought a full stock Steyr zephyr 22lr for my kids to learn on and I’ve told them they need to master irons before moving to scopes.
Anyway, apologies for the tangent!

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Jack - The Zephyr is a good tangent.

https://www.africahunting.com/threads/good-gun-deals-this-week.66409/post-1654897

JPbowhunter said:

Some beautiful rifles there mate.

I did have an 85 Bavarian in half stock, loved that gun and wish I didn’t have to sell it.

That 303 is a beauty too, really like that!

My main two stalking rifles currently are my Rigby HS 9.3x62 and my Lee Speed 303 done by William Garden of Scotland. The latter is my preference in terms of handling, it might be 130 years old but geez they had rifle making down pat then.

I’d like a 7x57 effectively shaped like the 303 but with the ability to QR mount it and a barrel between 24-26” long. I prefer the low profile sights over a quarter rib where it suits the stock.

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Gee those Lee Speed Type 1 rifles were good looking . And they were and remain fantastic shooting rifles . Light as a feather , no noticeable recoil even with metal base on the butt and shooting the wonderful 303 cartridge . What more could you want ?

JPbowhunter said:

I guess it depends where you are in the country as to what’s considered “strict”. My state is pretty easy, semi auto’s are not worth the hassle but most else is straightforward to get. Guns can be imported but I haven’t gone down that path as it does include another layer of cost. I’d probably do it for a pre war Rigby in 275 but they seem to be getting pricier with collectors chasing them more now.
Most production rifles are available here, we do have some custom makers but finding one that has a genuine understanding of classic stalking rifles that is taking orders is a challenge.

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It is easy to import rifles into Australia as long as they are not automatic or semi-automatic loaders . Same for shot guns . I’ve imported about 10 over the years . But I also live in a firearm “friendly” state .

Sh1kar said:

If you can find one a Ron Wharton rifle

Ronald Wharton (from Rigby's) | Charles Lancaster Gunmakers

A short biography of Ronald Wharton (from Rigby's), the master rifle maker behind the brand bearing his name, and later behind David Lloyd Rifles and Charles Lancaster Gunmakers.

www.clguns.com

Google Bunduki to get his widows phone number. Margarita

S

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I’ve got a Ron Wharton 300H&H it is superb . Here are some photo just after I imported it into Australia . It has H&H quick detachable scope mounts . It was made in the London workshop in Soho that Ron bought from Rigby after the business was sold to Paul Roberts Ron’s widow Margarita was able to give me its history. A superb rifle - and it was cheap at a Holts sale .

My main deer hunting rifle is a custom BRNO VZ 24 in 7mm Mauser . Has an old Pecar 4x fixed magnification scope . It has killed probably over 1000 fallow deer - culling of pests on my grazing property in Tasmania . Likes the Geco/ RWS 162 grain bullets . The other rifle in the photo is a Lee Speed Type 1 rifle from 1897 . It has been used a few times for deer . Loves a 174grain bullet ( not the 215gr which was a surprise ). I think these are wonderful stalking rifle / cartridge combinations.