450 Rigby vs 460 Weatherby

Schüler Jumbo said:
And what is your opinion as to why the .450 Rigby was not as popular as the .458 Lott or .505 Gibbs?
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Just my opinion and no data to back it up, but I believe the. 458 Lott and the 505 Gibbs were more established and had a great track record in the field. Factory ammunition was more readily available for both at the time, although the Gibbs has become a handloading caliber now. The Lott obliviously has many factory options.

The 450 Rigby just like the Dakota and the 460 Weatherby is a wonderful cartridge with a wide range of power options for handloaders. The 460 is more than I enjoy shooting, but very versatile in loading with that huge case. Most people who want a.458 that don't currently own one will most likely look to the Lott or Win Mag purely for the factory ammo options and reloading components available.

I'm a 458 Lott fan myself. That's why I decided to part with the 450 Rigby. Didn't see the need for two calibers so close in performance.
 
Question: The Weatherby Company has been 100% completely loyal to their line of Weatherby Cartridges. Weatherby stands by their cartridges offering the highest quality Weatherby factory ammunition and the highest quality Weatherby component brass for handloaders. The Weatherby line of cartridges go back to the 1940’s!. Why doesn’t Rigby, a world renown prestigious company, offer Rigby factory ammunition and Rigby component brass for handloaders for the Rigby line of cartridges?
 
Schüler Jumbo said:
Question: The Weatherby Company has been 100% completely loyal to their line of Weatherby Cartridges. Weatherby stands by their cartridges offering the highest quality Weatherby factory ammunition and the highest quality Weatherby component brass for handloaders. The Weatherby line of cartridges go back to the 1940’s!. Why doesn’t Rigby, a world renown prestigious company, offer Rigby factory ammunition and Rigby component brass for handloaders for the Rigby line of cartridges?
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Great question and I hope someone has an informed answer.
 
Mark458 said:
CZ did offer a 450 Rigby.
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Correct, and I considered one while looking for a Dakota 76 in .450. Parkwest offers their SD 76 in both .450 Dakota and .450 Rigby.

There are examples of fans changing the market. The excellent series Firefly was kept alive by its fans, and resulted later in a full-length big budget feature film Serenity.

The 500gr/2300fps .458 Lott is certainly adequate caliber and energy, but I don't care for its mediocre neck tension, flirting with compression, and belted case. Not dissing what is a popular and available choice above the .458 Win Mag, but it's just not for me.

While there's nothing hugely lacking in a 400gr/2400fps .416 Rigby, I continue to believe in the market for a beltless case providing a noncompressed 500gr/2400-2500fps (especially for PHs wanting a charge-stopping bolt rifle). Such ballistics are not easily seen from a standard-length action, hence the .458 necked up .416 Rigby. Two excellent choices exist today, both proven in Africa, and often favored over the .460 Wby.

I watched for year the 10mm barely hanging on, and today it's a good seller. This ain't over yet.
 
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BTP-KennethWRoyce said:
Correct, and I considered one while looking for a Dakota 76 in .450. Parkwest offers their SD 76 in both .450 Dakota and .450 Rigby.

There are examples of fans changing the market. The excellent series Firefly was kept alive by its fans, and resulted later in a full-length big budget feature film Serenity.

The 500gr/2300fps .458 Lott is certainly adequate caliber and energy, but I don't care for its mediocre neck tension, flirting with compression, and belted case. Not dissing what is a popular and available choice above the .458 Win Mag, but it's just not for me.

While there's nothing hugely lacking in a 400gr/2400fps .416 Rigby, I continue to believe in the market for a beltless case providing a noncompressed 500gr/2400-2500fps (especially for PHs wanting a charge-stopping bolt rifle). Such ballistics are not easily seen from a standard-length action, hence the .458 necked up .416 Rigby. Two excellent choices exist today, both proven in Africa, and often favored over the .460 Wby.

I watched for year the 10mm barely hanging on, and today it's a good seller. This ain't over yet.
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The 460 Weatherby is definitely safe in my opinion and I don't see the Dakota or the Rigby going away any time soon, but they may need their Harry Selby moment down the road to make them really take off.

As for my 458 Lott, I'm a if it ain't broke don't fix it kinda guy. It's always done a great job on buffalo and in my CZ it feeds smoothly and shoots awesome, and I love the 5 + 1 capacity. Nothing wrong with the bigger cartridges, but I haven't found a need so far.
 
Mark458 said:
The 460 Weatherby is definitely safe in my opinion and I don't see the Dakota or the Rigby going away any time soon, but they may need their Harry Selby moment down the road to make them really take off.

As for my 458 Lott, I'm a if it ain't broke don't fix it kinda guy. It's always done a great job on buffalo and in my CZ it feeds smoothly and shoots awesome, and I love the 5 + 1 capacity. Nothing wrong with the bigger cartridges, but I haven't found a need so far.
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"they may need their Harry Selby moment down the road to make them really take off"...exactly.

The .458 Lott is just fine, and I wouldn't really feel undergunned with one. I was respectful to it in my book (page 9/15): "You really can't go wrong with this round. It's not perfect like the .450 Dakota, but it's very good. And it's available." I thought this a fair summary for my readers, most of whom are new to African hunting. I wouldn't expect them to hold out or save up for a .450 Dakota when they could buy an eminently serviceable .458 Lott (or .416 Rem Mag) off the rack.
 
BTP-KennethWRoyce said:
I watched for year the 10mm barely hanging on, and today it's a good seller. This ain't over yet.
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It’s been long over. Not even Rigby will step up with factory ammunition or handloading component brass. The .458” caliber market belongs to the .458 Winchester, .458 Lott, and .460 Weatherby. The 10mm Auto is a bad analogy. The 10mm was always supported by quality factory ammunition, quality handloading component brass, and very affordable quality firearms. The 10mm also has the unique advantage of being the most powerful cartridge chambered in a standard size semi-auto and also offered in world-class clip gun revolvers and single actions and carbines. The .450 Rigby has none of those attributes. The .450 Dakota even less so. koning se X
 
@Schüler Jumbo I see your point on the rifle manufacturer sponsoring a source for their named cartridges. Searches on AmmoSeek found only one source for .450 Rigby ammo at $20 a round! Ouch!!! There was no source for brass to be found.

For .460 Weatherby there was one vendor at $11 a round. It was Weatherby branded ammo. Smart, very smart!

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For 460 Weatherby brass there were three sources with my favorite brass guys @Rav offering the lowest price at $4.40 each.

It should benefit the Rigby company if it would do the same as Weatherby in sponsoring a ammo maker to produce 450 Rigby and brand it Rigby.

We may be wishful thinking for Rigby to promote reloaded ammo in their rifle by also offering brass. One can only hope. I remember Rigby advertisements including something to the effect that reloaded ammo should not be used in their rifles. Clearly they don’t live around here… :)
 
dogcat1 said:
To answer the original question about the 450 Rigby vs 460 Wby - not much difference. You will still need your teeth straightened and a shoulder replacement by the time you get good enough not to flinch.
Stay with the mere mortals amoung us and usa trusted .375 HH or at most a .416 Rigby...

Leave the big boys for the big boys.....
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No flinch here, and I've shot 40+ rounds from the bench with my 450 Rigby, and shot my Croc laying down in the prone with it. Recoil in a heavy rifle takes time to get used to, but isn't anything like what people led me to believe before I bought my big bores.
 
BTP-KennethWRoyce said:
Correct, and I considered one while looking for a Dakota 76 in .450. Parkwest offers their SD 76 in both .450 Dakota and .450 Rigby.

There are examples of fans changing the market. The excellent series Firefly was kept alive by its fans, and resulted later in a full-length big budget feature film Serenity.

The 500gr/2300fps .458 Lott is certainly adequate caliber and energy, but I don't care for its mediocre neck tension, flirting with compression, and belted case. Not dissing what is a popular and available choice above the .458 Win Mag, but it's just not for me.

While there's nothing hugely lacking in a 400gr/2400fps .416 Rigby, I continue to believe in the market for a beltless case providing a noncompressed 500gr/2400-2500fps (especially for PHs wanting a charge-stopping bolt rifle). Such ballistics are not easily seen from a standard-length action, hence the .458 necked up .416 Rigby. Two excellent choices exist today, both proven in Africa, and often favored over the .460 Wby.

I watched for year the 10mm barely hanging on, and today it's a good seller. This ain't over yet.
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I haven't personally heard of a PH carrying a 450 Dakota recently, but I have seen in person on hunts in Zim and RSA 458 Win and 458 Lott used extensively as well as have seen 460's used by PH's and read accounts here and other SM of the same.

Due to its obscurity I would venture to say the 450 Dakotas' use in Africa was tied heavily to the marketing of Dakota at the time. There is no shortage of articles of joint hunts sponsored by Dakota and other manufacturers and I would assume Dakota paid for rifles for various PH's over the years for marketing collateral and assets. African hunts on the company's dime are a great benefit for the hunter and brand afterall.

I do tend to agree that is is all but one foot in the grave with the the market securely in the hands of 458 Win/Lott, 450 Rigby, and 460 Wby.
 
TTundra said:
I do tend to agree that is is all but one foot in the grave with the the market securely in the hands of 458 Win/Lott, 450 Rigby, and 460 Wby.
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Perhaps, but that's not at all the fault of the cartridge itself. Many superior products have fallen by the wayside. When I was shopping for that very nice treat to myself, an heirloom quality DG rifle, I wanted its caliber to have zero excuses in case design...and that's what I got. I don't mind remaining .450 Dakota's champion.

Along this vein, I hope for the success of the .470 Mbogo!
 
Schüler Jumbo said:
The .460 Weatherby can be put in a CRF action no problem whatsoever. Notwithstanding plenty of push feed actions see the hunting fields around the world. The .460 Weatherby has been in action since the 1950’s. The .450 Dakota didn’t come along until the late 1990’s…….The .460 has true case capacity to push any weight or length bullet, factory ammo readily available, properly headstamped top quality brass available, top quality handloading dies available. So the “issues” are your opinion, not issues.

From the Dakota cartridges history write up: “The largest of the Dakota cartridges is the .450 Dakota. For a while, Dakota advertised a .416 cartridge but this is no longer in production. Unlike its siblings, the .450 cartridge is based on the .416 Rigby case, much like the .338 Lapua Magnum. Case capacity is near identical to the .460 Weatherby, the main difference between the two cartridges being that the .460 is loaded as fast as possible, apart from this, freebore is much the same.The downside of the Dakota cartridges include the high cost of brass, the lack of readily available factory ammunition along with the non standard case head design. This last issue is unfortunately the major limiting factor regarding the mainstream popularity of the Dakota cartridge line.”
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Had two CRF extactors lost claws on a 460 Brno 602 and 10.75 Mauser, a month apart. Both rifles immediately turned into expensive clubs.
 
Tikka 9.3 said:
Had two CRF extactors lost claws on a 460 Brno 602 and 10.75 Mauser, a month apart. Both rifles immediately turned into expensive clubs.
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We're you loading all rounds from the magazine or dropping them in the action and clambering? To break two so close is quite a feat and extremely worrisome.
 
skydiver386 said:
Very well stated.

My criticism of the big Weatherby is pretty basic. For my taste, the 378 and 460 rifles should have been built heavier by at least a pound and a half, the wrist of the stock should have been a little thicker, and the wood and metal a lower gloss finish.

I can't say I've heard of one that had feeding, extraction or ejection issues that were not operator induced.
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A mercury dampener can be added for those who want a heavier gun. Should be less than $200 installed.
 
TTundra said:
We're you loading all rounds from the magazine or dropping them in the action and clambering? To break two so close is quite a feat and extremely worrisome.
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The extractor damage occurred during bigbore competitions where up to 40 rounds are fired in timed events. (This excludes the 200-plus rounds fired during training) At one stage, it is required to fire 8 rounds in 35 seconds. The rifles were not abused, but very much pushed to the limits. Mitigating circumstances towards the 10.75, the rifle is 99 years old. All rounds were magazine fed.
 
Tikka 9.3 said:
The extractor damage occurred during bigbore competitions where up to 40 rounds are fired in timed events. (This excludes the 200-plus rounds fired during training) At one stage, it is required to fire 8 rounds in 35 seconds. The rifles were not abused, but very much pushed to the limits. Mitigating circumstances towards the 10.75, the rifle is 99 years old. All rounds were magazine fed.
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I can see running a bolt that hard for that duration for years of that competition and training will eventually induce a failure. The 10.75 makes sense for its age. Even the 602 would have to give in eventually. Few shooters and even fewer hunters will ever know the punishment their rifle cant take before a failure.
 
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