My thoughts on recoil

The OP is certainly correct that most rifles, especially Big Bore Safari rifles, are built much lighter than they should be. Unfortunately, when buying a rifle at any retail gun store, the average hunter contemplating his first Safari has no idea of the relationship between recoil and gun weight until after he's already made the purchase, and he fires the first few rounds at the range.

I'm 100% convinced that most large caliber rifles should weigh at least a pound heavier than what they do, and this weight should be in the barrel, not added to hollowed out places in the stock after the fact. This alone would reduce recoil to a tolerable level for most experienced shooters.

Another thing that would be a huge benefit to our community is Big Bore Shoots. There are enough of us here on this forum that own and shoot large caliber rifles that anyone contemplating the purchase of a large caliber Safari rifle should have an opportunity to shoot one before investing in one.

Maybe it's cause I don't have much meat on my bones, but I've always had the impression that bigger guys have an easier time with recoil. Both because they have more mass to absorb the force and because, if they have quite a bit of meat on their bones. they're able to get a better weld on a non-fitted rifle. ChatGPT confirms this -- but I know half the time it just tells me what I want to hear.

Ontario Hunter said:

Is that an old Bausch & Lomb detachable base/rings?

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Yes - Good eye Ontario. It is a clunky, obsolete design but the glass in that old optic is as good as any modern scope that I own. Being an old Vintage design from the late 50's to early 60's, it was a good fit on the 63 era FN Browning. It is a bitch to adjust but once you get is sorted, you can move that scope off and on and never loose zero. The genius of it was the ability to have it zeroed on multiple rifles and to be moved from gun to gun without the need for any additional adjustment. When I bought my 375 it had the same Kuharsky Brothers mount on it and I had planned to use this scope on both of them. But, the mount places the optic only a few mm above the bbl and this cause the objective to bump into the iron sights on my 375. So, I mounted a Swaro on it instead and kept the B&L on the little 308.

When that scope was new it cost many times more than the price of a pre-64 M70 or my little FN. Hard to comprehend. I have a 2.5-8x Weaver that is its clone as well but the B&L always seemed to have slightly better glass. As long as I keep it inside of the point blank range it is a worthy hunter. I was ringing steel at 400y with it yesterday using the Barnes 168g TTSX which is one of the loads that it shoots well. Took some hold over but that was ok.

Garciamarquez1918 said:

Maybe it's cause I don't have much meat on my bones, but I've always had the impression that bigger guys have an easier time with recoil. Both because they have more mass to absorb the force and because, if they have quite a bit of meat on their bones. they're able to get a better weld on a non-fitted rifle. ChatGPT confirms this -- but I know half the time it just tells me what I want to hear.

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I'm 6'3' and 220lbs, and I've yet to find my recoil limit, but I also know smaller framed people that shoot larger rifles than I do. @krish has an enviable collection of Big Bore Rifles and he describes himself as a lightly built individual.

Connie Brooks of Barnes Bullets is a petite woman, but has no problem shooting very large African calibers.


The most reasonable explanation is that people of various builds attained their tolerance for recoil gradually. My progression was from rimfires to 223 to 30 to 375 to 416 to 450's. My next step may be a 550 Magnum that Krish has stashed away.

If you can progress in small steps without developing a flinch, your eventual max is probably higher than if you made huge leaps. The human body can get used to nearly anything if the buildup is gradual.

So far my experience with larger calibers has been 416 Rem Mag, 416 Rigby, 458 Win Mag and 458 Lott. All were scoped and total weight 10.5-11 lbs. All are manageable to shoot and actually “pleasant” compared to my previously owned Remington Custom shop 375 RUM total weight with scope 7.4 lbs. That lightweight 375 RUM was the most brutal recoiling rifle I’ve ever fired, even when using a PAST recoil pad. It was easily 2-3 lbs too light. I do not regret selling it.

I’m 6-3, 230 but I’m not sure size is the significant factor, after all Elmer Keith handled the big bores quite well and wasn’t a large guy. I think practice, shooting technique and mental preparation play a larger roll. Some of our AH members with significant experience hunting DG with large caliber rifles are average in size and handle recoil just fine.

JG26Irish_2 said:

Yes - Good eye Ontario. It is a clunky, obsolete design but the glass in that old optic is as good as any modern scope that I own. Being an old Vintage design from the late 50's to early 60's, it was a good fit on the 63 era FN Browning. It is a bitch to adjust but once you get is sorted, you can move that scope off and on and never loose zero. The genius of it was the ability to have it zeroed on multiple rifles and to be moved from gun to gun without the need for any additional adjustment. When I bought my 375 it had the same Kuharsky Brothers mount on it and I had planned to use this scope on both of them. But, the mount places the optic only a few mm above the bbl and this cause the objective to bump into the iron sights on my 375. So, I mounted a Swaro on it instead and kept the B&L on the little 308.

When that scope was new it cost many times more than the price of a pre-64 M70 or my little FN. Hard to comprehend. I have a 2.5-8x Weaver that is its clone as well but the B&L always seemed to have slightly better glass. As long as I keep it inside of the point blank range it is a worthy hunter. I was ringing steel at 400y with it yesterday using the Barnes 168g TTSX which is one of the loads that it shoots well. Took some hold over but that was ok.

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I have one of those B&L bases on the 760 Remington 30-06 Mom's dad bought for my dad new three days after I was born 6 October 1952. Not sure about the base but that was the first year Remington 760 went on the shelves. It is mounted with Weaver K4 that presumably came with the rifle. I inherited the rifle but prefer to stick with the WWII Springfield Dad fixed up for me. Tough choice obviously.

There are a couple of downsides to the B&L setup. First, it does set a bit high. I have to hunt for the crosshairs when I mount the gun. It was intended to offer the option of iron sights but doesn't work great for that purpose. One must peek under the crossbars that locks down the scope in order to find iron sights. In the process it's easy to lose visual contact with game, especially if it's moving. Ask me how I know!

And lastly, the base locks onto the scope tube NOT the rings. Not only will the lock points mark the scope tube, but eventually I'm sure zero may be compromised as the marks become dents.

Nevertheless, the setup was quite innovative for its day. I see parts for these come up for sale from time to time but rarely together. Yours is the first one I've seen complete with original B&L scope. Take care of it.

Garciamarquez1918 said:

Maybe it's cause I don't have much meat on my bones, but I've always had the impression that bigger guys have an easier time with recoil. Both because they have more mass to absorb the force and because, if they have quite a bit of meat on their bones. they're able to get a better weld on a non-fitted rifle. ChatGPT confirms this -- but I know half the time it just tells me what I want to hear.

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Being big means you move less... Good for follow up shots but bad for felt recoil. Also, the more meat on your shoulder, the harder it is to pull the gun tightly against your frame. Ive gotten quite fat over the years, especially after I was hurt at work. My large bore guns remind me how much i need to lose weight and get in better shape.

When weight is added to a gun, it needs to be done carefully. If the gun is too nose heavy the recoil will drive strait back into the shooter. You want a degree of muzzle rise to help eat up recoil. However, if the weight is shifted too far to the rear, you will end up with excessive muzzle rise (difficult follow up shots).

Ive posted this before, but here is a neat slow motion video of me firing the my 8-bore with a 1200gr bullet over 280gr of FFg black powder. The recoil from this load is stout and my right hand actually slips off the gun in the video.

Interesting topic and interesting to read others opinions.

I don’t think I do anything different, in relation to stance and holding the rifle for shooting off hand, when using something like 223 or a 500 Jeffery.

As to managing recoil or the effects of recoil. Well, a rifle that has a suitable weight for its chambering and a well made/fitted stock makes life easier. Well, that’s my opinion… based only on how I “feel” and not backed up with any credible evidence. The best example that I can give is that I’ve shot several Brno 602’s in 375 H&H. Some had a “hog back” European style stock and the others an English style stock. The European style stocked rifles were cruel barstards of things to shoot. The English style stocked ones are a bloody delight. Basically same rifle, weight and ammunition…but very different stock designs.

The other thing that I do, or don’t do is shoot any rifles greater than 375 H&H with a scope. I can handle shooting my 375’s with a scope and not worry about being bitten. But anything bigger I worry about spilling my blood and then I’ll either start to flinch and accuracy goes out the window. So for me it’s irons or red dots only on the cannons.

As to shooting on a bench. I’ll do it to confirm accuracy/zero. But I’ll hold the rifle with both hands and do so in a very upright sitting position. Once zeroed I get away from the bench.

When shooting on a range I double plug the ears. Plugs and muffs always. Noise is the biggest flinch factor IMO. In the paddock I don’t notice it.

For practice. If I can, I shoot at steel plates or hanging clay targets or 50 m pistol targets. I find that when I’m concentrating on ringing steel every thing else fades away.

Anyway, that’s my 2 cents worth.


The 500J in action, recovering from recoil and working the bolt.


My stance with the 416 Rigby


And playing with a 308 Win.

Pondoro said:

Heavy recoil..?
Its like making love to a big woman, just hold on and enjoy the ride

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Gomer said:

View attachment 788133

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Slow Dancing with a fat girl is like moving a refrigerator into a corner all by yourself.

Proper length of pull and style of stock make the biggest difference in my opinion(not sure it’s worth much). Most modern rifles are stocked for scopes so a high comb, straight line stock on a rifle with iron sights or an RMR style dot as is prevalent these days forces one to smush the face down to low and in my experience get beat up by the cheek piece of the rifle and if the length of pull is too short your thumb knuckle. Also as others have said shooting a large bore rifle off a bench is an effort futility. It gives you no ability to lean into it and positions the stock to high in on the shoulder.

Many valid points above re: stock configuration. Art Alphin of A-Square fame had it right with his "Coil-Chek" huge surface area butt stocks. He is absolutely correct in that his gen 1. 338(-378 Wby) A-Sq firing 250 grain bullets and over 100 gr of powder feels like shooting a 7 mag. Now, his stock designs were all function and less form (some were nice), but on custom DG rigs I do see some larger surface area butts and THAT purely and physically reduces felt recoil better than anything!!!

For those of you familar with equipment, standard stock butts are akin to the surface area (contact patch) of tires, whereas the surface area of a larger butt stock is akin to treadles (like a bulldozer or trackhoe)-the (much larger surface area) treadles exert ~10x less psi than tires. Probably also why some of the old guns feature a mushroom shaped recoil pad (larger than the actual butt), in addition to not wanting to mess up a fine piece of wood (probably pre-dated masking tape!) lol

skydiver386 said:

Slow Dancing with a fat girl is like moving a refrigerator into a corner all by yourself.

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Well, you're the one who wanted to be in the corner with her, all by yourself!
Man, you made me laugh so hard I coughed up all my phlegm.


To the OP's question: am I the only one who sticks a loosely filled sand bag between my shoulder and the butt pad when bench shooting?

matt85 said:

Ive posted this before, but here is a neat slow motion video of me firing the my 8-bore with a 1200gr bullet over 280gr of FFg black powder. The recoil from this load is stout and my right hand actually slips off the gun in the video.

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Wow, that must be massive! With the amount of smoke it generates, it makes me wonder how the hunters of yesteryear managed to take quick follow-up shots on dangerous game.

The most important part of recoil management is one that I haven't seen a single member post about.....

Mental preparation

If you go into a fight knowing you are going to get your ass handed to you, then you have brought about your own destiny. I see it all the time with deer "hunters" and often of rather large stature convince themselves a rifle kicks to hard before they even fire it.

At one time I used to guide an annual youth hunt and one year I had one of the fathers admonish me for bringing a 30-06 to a youth hunt and how it would "beat a grown man to death let alone a child"; I told him to lower his voice as I didn't want any of the kids to hear and let them make up their own minds.

My assigned hunter on this trip was a 14yo girl that had only fired a .22 a couple of times, so we started on my M77/22 getting form down, then moved up to 170gr low recoil loads and then on to full power 30-06 loads and you could tell that she had talent and loved shooting; she then asked...

"can I try your 300?"

3 shot 2" group @ 100yds on her first time ever shooting a belted magnum much to the chagrin of the father who admonished me, who said "She's a bigger man than me!"

SStomcat said:

Wow, that must be massive! With the amount of smoke it generates, it makes me wonder how the hunters of yesteryear managed to take quick follow-up shots on dangerous game.

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The amount if smoke would certainly be an issue, especially if there was no wind!

I primarily shoot smokeless loads using Blue Dot powder. Same velocity with less recoil and smoke.

deewayne2003 said:

The most important part of recoil management is one that I haven't seen a single member post about.....

Mental preparation

If you go into a fight knowing you are going to get your ass handed to you, then you have brought about your own destiny. I see it all the time with deer "hunters" and often of rather large stature convince themselves a rifle kicks to hard before they even fire it.

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This is a very good point!

SStomcat said:

Wow, that must be massive! With the amount of smoke it generates, it makes me wonder how the hunters of yesteryear managed to take quick follow-up shots on dangerous game.

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They hid in the cloud of smoke to reload…..
Gumpy

deewayne2003 said:

The most important part of recoil management is one that I haven't seen a single member post about.....

Mental Preparation

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See post #25 2nd paragraph

“I think practice, shooting technique and mental preparation play a larger roll.”

steve white said:

Churchill, in his shotgunning book describes what might be termed a "push-pull" between the shooting hands. The forward hand is pushing forward with a firm grip, itself taking some of the recoil, while the trigger hand is pulling the stock into the shoulder. I think many people are underutilizing their forward hand?

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That is derived from the Weaver stance in handgun shooting. It has evolved since then. Fighting recoil is not the right thing. Heck, I don't even hold the forward hand that tight, and let recoil happen (meaning I let the gun go up with the recoil force rather than fully into my shoulder). Obviously, you have to let some of the force go into the shoulder rather than all the way up for the second shot to be fast enough.

In the video below if you slow the speed to 0.5 or less you can see the gun push my shoulder back while still going up. The recoil force is split.