Is the 500 Jeffery really superior to the 458 Lott in stopping power?

As to the original question yes the 500 Jeff with 570gr leaves more lasting impressions on game than the 458 Lott with 500gr bullets.

But you need to be able to handle them and still hit your target.
 
I must say that I am also a lucky winner of a 500J that feeds as fast as I can swing the lever.

@rookhawk it is interesting what you say about the nose profiles, I see the tendency here in Sunny SA nowadays is to keep the nose profiles the same across the weights and just add to the back end. But so far so good, all the bullets in varying weights I have used are all feeding like butter.

My own personal feeling is, that with a magnum action, the short round gets more time to line up straight with the chamber and then enters cleanly, as opposed to the bullet still hitting the side/edge of the chamber as it bounces in. Hence the argument for the benefit of a magnum length action.
Thats good to know, looks like you are using a magnum length receiver, what is the make and model of your 500J?
 
AI says:

is the caliber 500 jeffery known for feeding issues?

Yes. The .500 Jeffery has a reputation for being more demanding to feed reliably than many other dangerous-game cartridges, especially when chambered in a Mauser 98–type action. That doesn't mean a properly built .500 Jeffery is unreliable; rather, getting it to feed perfectly requires more careful magazine and feed-rail work.

The underlying issue is its unusual geometry. The .500 Jeffery is an enormous, relatively short, fat cartridge—roughly 0.620" at the case body/base, with a rebated rim of about 0.575". That combination creates several challenges:

  • Very large case diameter: A standard Mauser magazine wasn't designed around cartridges this wide. Magazine box dimensions, follower shape, feed rails, and feed-ramp geometry all become critical.
  • Rebated rim: The bolt face is smaller than the case body. During feeding, the cartridge has to rise into exactly the right position for the extractor and bolt face to capture the rim reliably.
  • Short/fat proportions: The cartridge doesn't have the long, relatively slender shape of something like a .375 H&H or .416 Rigby, which tends to guide itself toward the chamber more readily.
  • Limited magazine capacity: Typically you're dealing with only 2–3 cartridges in the magazine, and small changes in cartridge stack geometry can substantially change feeding behavior.
  • Bullet profile matters: A rifle that feeds round-nose solids perfectly may behave differently with a broad-meplat flat-point solid or certain softpoints.
This is particularly relevant because the original .500 Jeffery was essentially an adaptation of the German 12.7×70mm Schuler, intended to put .500-class performance into a Mauser 98 action. It accomplished that, but at the cost of considerably more complicated feeding geometry than cartridges such as the .416 Rigby.

If you're considering a particular .500 Jeffery rifle, I'd pay unusually close attention to feeding. I'd want to cycle the actual ammunition/bullet shapes I intended to hunt with, slowly and rapidly, from every magazine position. A .500 Jeffery that feeds 50–100 consecutive rounds without hesitation is a very different proposition from one that occasionally noses into the feed ramp or loses control of the case head.

Interestingly, this is one reason the .500 A-Square and .505 Gibbs can be attractive alternatives—their case designs avoid some of the .500 Jeffery's peculiarities, although they bring their own action-size requirements.
 
Thats good to know, looks like you are using a magnum length receiver, what is the make and model of your 500J?
Custom built on a Vektor Magnum Mauser action by Gerrie Coetzee in SA
 
I'd say so, but additionally a great PH stopping round (greater E, larger wound channel and nearly 1/2 the pressure of the maxed out 458 Lott which could become a problem in high heat with repeated firing. Why the larger-cased 416s-500s are favored by PHs.) My favorite .470 Capstick is more closely related to the Lott, but it wins in greater powder space and larger bullet frontal area (which the big Jeff has in spades!!) Will they both kill DG with proper bullet selection and shooting? Yes. Might the Jeff land the big one a bit more effectively on the 2nd shot before it bites you? Yes. Read Kevin Robertson's books on this very topic (from a practical standpoint.) He likes both. Me, I love the Jeff case for its fantastic smaller bore wildcats using that case and the shorter, fatter benchrest performer-style design a la PPC (WSM, et. al.)
 

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Too many are stuck on old original ballistics and 535gr bullets for the 500 Jeff....I do not use them and dont know anyone else who does for backup....we use 570 and 600gr premium bullets.....

The 500 Jeff with the right bullets and in the hands of a competent shooter is devastatingly effect in any situation on any dg....

Yes not all can handle it but the ones who can and who use them for dg follow up wont use anything less.....

As for the ones thinking smaller caliber dg rifles are just as effective are unfortuanately speaking of no practical experience....

Nothing wrong with a 458 Lott for dg backup but it cannot compare to the performance of the 500 Jeff.....
I think you just said it all....I always wonder why Professional Hunters prefer the .500 NE double rifles than the 500 Jeffery rifle ( discounting the two fast shots) . "??
Is it due to the recoil of a .500 Jeffery not suited for every PH to use it in follow up wounded dangerous game ?
Is it that the .500NE double rifle just being better and more easier to shoot due to it`s balance when manufactured?
 
Reads like AI copied a Terry Wieland article but leaves out the fact that the .500-Bore Jeffery outsells the .505 Rimless Nitto 6:1.

The reason the Jeffery outsells the 505 Gibbs is that you can build a 500 Jeff on a $300 action and most 505 Gibbs are built on $6000-$12000 actions. (ignoring a few CZ550s)

I like the 500 Jeffery a lot. I like it more than the Gibbs. If I were to buy one, I would buy one on a magnum mauser action and have 4+1 magazine capacity, avoiding some of the gotcha's of feed.
 
I don't have an Instagram account.

BTW, buffalo are not representative of this cartridge's performance, as this type of game can easily be harvested and also stopped if necessary using the 458 Lott or even a smaller caliber.
Grand Veneur, I agree with you and IvW ...there is a reason the 500 Jeffery is not use by many PH /Dangerous game hunters ..it is a dangerous game charge stopper rifle with extremely hard and savage recoil . It is not a hunting rifle even for buffalo...only charging Bull elephant and charging cow elephants will fall in it`s scope of application.

On the other side of this coin it is believe that the 500 Jeffery is quite accurate out to 200 meters .... :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
 
I'm glad someone brought this up,...becasue it's for sure true. I have had the same experience. 570 and 600gr Woodleigh, as well as the 570 gr Hornady did not work well in my rifles. My rifles were a Sterling Davenport Standard Mauser 98 with the center feed conversion, and a GMA that was built on the action Roden designed for the 500J. The heavier projectiles are a little longer if I remember correctly, and because they must achieve a pretty sharp angle coming out of the magazine they would at times bind and dent the brass just below the shoulder, sometimes the 570gr Woodleigh would scrape off part of the lead on the mouth of the chamber. The 500 Jeffery is one of those calibers that the rifle needs to be built from start to finish to work with certain bullets. I can only speak from my experience....I never had a single issue with 535gr, Woodleigh softs or solids, or Barnes 535gr solids. And just because the 500 NE and teh 500 Jeff share a diameter, don't assume the NE bullets are going to function in a 500 J bolt gu

As to the original question yes the 500 Jeff with 570gr leaves more lasting impressions on game than the 458 Lott with 500gr bullets.

But you need to be able to handle them and still hit your target.
The 500 Jeffery is not a hunting caliber like a .458 Lott ..it is a specialized caliber for stopping a charging wounded bull elephant or a charging elephant cow primarily. Few PH /Dangerous game hunters use it due to the recoil and unlikely fast recovery shot you will get when a charging bull elephant at close quarters or a cow elephant bursting out of brush along side you..there the double rifle will be more effective in a .500 NE caliber ... you need to be committed to owning /shooting such a heavy brutal recoiling caliber as a 500 Jeffery to use it effectively as a charge stopper rifle.
I do not see how you can compare a 500 Jeffery TO a .458 Lott at all ....reading through this thread it is obvious that the 500 Jeffery is in a league of it`s own..designed to be used only as a charge stopper nothing else ...while any other caliber is a dangerous game hunting rifle (505 GIBBS is in the same league .)
 
The 500 Jeffery is not a hunting caliber like a .458 Lott ..it is a specialized caliber for stopping a charging wounded bull elephant or a charging elephant cow primarily. Few PH /Dangerous game hunters use it due to the recoil and unlikely fast recovery shot you will get when a charging bull elephant at close quarters or a cow elephant bursting out of brush along side you.
I would argue that the 458 Lott is both a hunting and stopping cartridge. I believe far more African PH’s use the 458 Lott as a backup to clients as their “stopping rifle.” The surveys I have seen show a much smaller number of PH’s who use 500 caliber or larger.
I do not see how you can compare a 500 Jeffery TO a .458 Lott at all ....reading through this thread it is obvious that the 500 Jeffery is in a league of it`s own..designed to be used only as a charge stopper nothing else ...while any other caliber is a dangerous game hunting rifle (505 GIBBS is in the same league .)
The title was designed to be thought provoking with a dash of controversy admittedly. :)
Based on feedback it does seem the 500 Jeffery has an edge due to a larger diameter bullet with more weight but I will always feel shot placement and the correct bullet will be far more important.
 
I would argue that the 458 Lott is both a hunting and stopping cartridge. I believe far more African PH’s use the 458 Lott as a backup to clients as their “stopping rifle.” The surveys I have seen show a much smaller number of PH’s who use 500 caliber or larger.

The title was designed to be thought provoking with a dash of controversy admittedly. :)
Based on feedback it does seem the 500 Jeffery has an edge due to a larger diameter bullet with more weight but I will always feel shot placement and the correct bullet will be far more important.
Not an edge far superior...
 
Not an edge far superior...
IvW I agree with your assumption. I am curious to know , have you ever test the 500 Jeffery out to further distances than 100 meters with the standard 535gn bullet ? How accurate is it out to further distances than 100 meters??? I have read the 500 Jeffery`s distinction is to be very accurate out to 200 meters ...unlike any other super bore ...
 
I have shot my 20 degree shoulder .500 Schüler out to 300 yards using both open sights and scopes on both cardboard and steel. My rifle has a 24” hand-cut Krieger barrel and is MOA. Zeroed at 100 yards bullet drop is around 6” at 200 yards and about 20” at 300 yards. My scopes are both Leupold 1.5x5 and fixed 2.5 because of the required eye relief. The accuracy of a .500 Schüler/Jeffery is amazing and in the right hands capable of Sub-MOA.

My barrel bore scope:
 

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I have shot my 20 degree shoulder .500 Schüler out to 300 yards using both open sights and scopes on both cardboard and steel. My rifle has a 24” hand-cut Krieger barrel and is MOA. Zeroed at 100 yards bullet drop is around 6” at 200 yards and about 20” at 300 yards. My scopes are both Leupold 1.5x5 and fixed 2.5 because of the required eye relief. The accuracy of a .500 Schüler/Jeffery is amazing and in the right hands capable of Sub-MOA.

My barrel bore scope:
Thank you Schuler , it is great to get this type of information from a real person with a real .500 Jeffery , shooting it already for many , many years ..and be able to share it with a person like me who do not have any experience with the 500 Jeffery...

I always wanted a 404 Jeffery , I got a 404 Jeffery and love to shoot it ..then I started thinking about getting a 500 Jeffery ...it stayed a dream for quite a long time but I always worked on the idea...now with the assistance of Johan Greyling , Craig Clintworth and Frans Odendaal I am building a 500 Jeffery for myself ...I would probably never use it on an Elephant bull or a charging elephant cow at close quarters ...but I get to build it and shoot it myself ..that is enough for me..
I will be shortly getting a .458 Lott to re-load for and shoot it as well..so at least I will have an idea of the difference in performance between these two calibers this tread is about...
 
The .500 Jeffery cartridge loaded with a 570-grain bullet typically achieves a muzzle velocity of up to 2,350 feet per second (fps) and generates up to 7,000 foot-pounds of muzzle energy depending on the specific powder charge and barrel length. [1, 2, 3]. As it was stolen from Schuler (a la Mauser to Rigby) call it Schuler!! Ya.

Thinking through all the PHs I ever dealt with, many had 500s (NE, A-Sq...better feed/eject and even more power with the A-Sq), but several carried 416 (Rigby followed by Rem), even 375 HHs and a few 470 NEs. I've never encoutered a hunter using a 500 on game (other than a PH handing his over to a hunter as it was better suited for the shot), although you might get lambasted by the likes of Mark Sullivan, et. al. if you don't (but I love him and such is suitable for his style of close-quarters hunting!) lol
 
I have shot my 20 degree shoulder .500 Schüler out to 300 yards using both open sights and scopes on both cardboard and steel. My rifle has a 24” hand-cut Krieger barrel and is MOA. Zeroed at 100 yards bullet drop is around 6” at 200 yards and about 20” at 300 yards. My scopes are both Leupold 1.5x5 and fixed 2.5 because of the required eye relief. The accuracy of a .500 Schüler/Jeffery is amazing and in the right hands capable of Sub-MOA.

My barrel bore scope:
500 Jeffery accuracy is amazing.
I have owned a 500 Jeffery in a Blaser R8 PH for about 15 years now. This is the all steel model, total weight is exactly 11 pounds / 5 KG. I have always found the recoil heavy but not unmanageable. I just try and roll with it and it is like a big shove. It’s much more enjoyable than my 9.3x64 Brenneke with poor stock design. However I always limit my shooting to ten rounds or less, and that seems to be working for me.
One thing that has always impressed me is how accurate the 500 Jeffery can be. Yes completely irrelevant for its intended purpose, but I do find it satisfying be able to load such a wide powder charge and they all seem to be very consistent and accurate. The below were shot on sticks at 50m. Bullet is a Woodleigh 600 grain PPSN.
Note how low the Doctor is mounted, this seems to give me excellent cheek weld and help manage the recoil much better.
 

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Exactly! Recovery time and time between shots is why I don't favor my .450 Rigby over my trusty .458 Win! Every shooter is different but how fast can we hit center at xx range with progressively higher recoiling cartridges?

I've discussed with @Altitude sickness and @abnhog videoing us shooting various dangerous game rifles. The videos will not only show our shooting positions and recoil recovery, but will also provide accurate time between shots.
Live a little bit, you .450 Rigby wants you to
 

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