308 vs 7mm/08 for big game hunting in Africa or elsewhere

ARHinAK said:

I’ve been crunching the numbers between 30-06, .308, and 7mm08 for the past few weeks in anticipation of purchasing a new plains game/elk capable rifle. And I’m a Barnes TTSX or LRX shooter so keep that in mind.
To cut it short, if you can push a 168 gr TTSX out of a .308 @ 2700 vs the same bullet @ 2800 out of a 30-06, there isn’t enough difference to make a difference out to 350 yards. The extra 100 fps from the 06 carries the day another 100 yards.
The 708 with a 139 LRX @ 2800 falls below 1500 ft lbs of energy by 350 yards. It’s good but it’s just less.
I also prefer a .30 cal through and through for the larger antelope/elk sized game.
If you prefer hunting Limpopo/ thick bushveld areas like I do and can handle the ever so slight increase in recoil, between the 708 and 308, the .308 with stout bullets is the better mouse trap.

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ARHinAK said:

I’ve been crunching the numbers between 30-06, .308, and 7mm08 for the past few weeks in anticipation of purchasing a new plains game/elk capable rifle. And I’m a Barnes TTSX or LRX shooter so keep that in mind.
To cut it short, if you can push a 168 gr TTSX out of a .308 @ 2700 vs the same bullet @ 2800 out of a 30-06, there isn’t enough difference to make a difference out to 350 yards. The extra 100 fps from the 06 carries the day another 100 yards.
The 708 with a 139 LRX @ 2800 falls below 1500 ft lbs of energy by 350 yards. It’s good but it’s just less.
I also prefer a .30 cal through and through for the larger antelope/elk sized game.
If you prefer hunting Limpopo/ thick bushveld areas like I do and can handle the ever so slight increase in recoil, between the 708 and 308, the .308 with stout bullets is the better mouse trap.

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Hornedfrogbbq said:

The .300WM is going to fast to set up usually in whitetail (it will on pigs) -- it pencils right through but the cabitational force explodes the internal organs and you end up with meat jelly in what use to be lungs and heart.

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JG26Irish_2 said:

I enjoy comparing the performance and ballistics of different hunting cartridges which might be selected for hunting the same animals. In this case, I wanted to open a discussion of the 308 vs the 7mm/08 for use on African plains game or North American big game such as deer, elk, etc. I am not a PH but am a hunter with decades of hunting experience and have been to Africa a few times to hunt PG and DG. Even so, few hunters can amass a huge resume of hunting experience in one lifetime and I am no different. As such, my comments are my opinions based on limited useage of each cartridge on big game. That said, I wanted to share my experiences and observations to this forum which hopefully will prompt some of you to also share your hunting experiences with one or both of these cartridges.

What prompted me was a recent YouTube video posted by Joseph Von Benedict and Ron Spomer discussing all of the 30cal hunting cartridges and their attributes. Neither of them are fans of the 308, so it was rated pretty low on the totem pole. I was thinking about my own experience with the 308 and the 7mm/08 and how different those experiences were considering that the two cartridges were about as close to being the same as any two could possibly be. The 270 and 30-06 might be another similar example.

My early big game hunting experience on mainly deer and wild hogs was with the 308 using mostly 165g reloads and Nosler Ballistic Tip cup/core bullets. I chalked up an impressive run of one shot kills on both with this combo and only suffered one notable failure when using a Winchester Silvertip factory load that appeared to be unable to expand at close range on a deer forcing me to take 5 shots before killing the poor beast. I switched to a 270 after that and had similar good results. I have never lost an animal to either one. Fast forward to recent years and I took a nice old FN Mauser in 308 on my first African Safari for Plains Game. Loaded with Federal Fusion 180g bonded ammo, it took five animals from 30y to 202y, all with one shot and all with impressive terminal results. The little FN is not a tack driver. It is an ultra-lite pencil bbl model that is handy and capable of 300y shots on game but is usually a 1.5-2" group at 100y and about twice that at 200y. OK hunting rifle but nothing special.

For my 2nd safari, I was planning to hunt both Limpopo and the open plains of the Free State and was advised to bring a very accurate rifle capable of reaching out to about 400y as some of the critters in Free State were simply tough to approach. MY 308 has a clunky old vintage optic with a tapered crosshair and no provision for hold over or dialing for long range. That ruled it out. I have many rifles and considered my 270 Mauser but it is getting old and never shot the heavy for caliber bullets as well as it shoots the lighter 130g ammo. So, I ruled it out also. I considered a nice 30-06 but it is more of a mid-range rifle in many ways and in the end narrowed the choice down to my 7mm RM or my 7mm/08. The 7mm Mag was the logical choice but it has a 26" Looong bbl that is a bit unwieldy and since we were also hunting the bushveld of Limpopo, I liked the short light handy feel of my 7mm/0 a lot better. Both were the same rifle spec and both were legit 1/2 moa rifles. In the end, I chose the 7mm/08 despite its obvious lower performance over the 7mm Mag for a few logical reasons:

• The 7/08 is shorter and lighter
• Just as accurate
• Similar in performance to other proven chamberings such as 257 Roberts and 7x57 Mauser
• Better performance than the much loved 6.5CM by most measures plus 6.5CM was not allowed in Free State as 270 was the minimum where I was to be hunting.
• Able to deliver a 140g TSX to 400y at over 2000 fps
• Was so close ballistically to my 308 that I was expecting similar performance on game
• The 7/08 scope was more suitable for hunting in close bush conditions like Limpopo than the magnums 3.5-18x optic and it was still good enough to achieve adequate 400y accuracy.
• While the 7 mag is able to send up to 160 and 175g bullets at adequate velocity the little 7/08 was sending 140g TSX or 139g CX bullets at similar speed and ballistic drop and while lighter, I figured the copper mono ammo would still penetrate well enough for my needs.

The 7/08 was a compromise choice capable of enough performance for Free State and optimum performance for Limpopo where most of the hunting was planned to be. The actual performance was adequate but nothing like that of my 308. Every animal taken with the 7/08 fell but most required a finisher from either the rifle or the PH's 9mm pistol. One notable animal required five shots (Blesbok) using the Hornady CX ammo. It was well hit on the first shot but made a beeline for cover and thus the other shots were expended to get it down while still out in the open. I was not impressed with that result. I switched to 140g Fusion ammo for the rest of the hunt but never got another shot on game so, I cannot comment on the performance of the Fusions. This is unfortunate since that would have been the best apples to apples comparison with the 308. I had some 150g Sciroccos also but never got to use them either. Coulda woulda shoulda.

In summary, I found the 7mm/08 to be more accurate than the 308 and capable of making longer shots on game when comparing my two rifles but it lacked the impressive knockdown capacity of the 308 and lacked the decisive terminal performance. No game was lost with the 7mm/08 excpet for one Warthog that was hit but made it to a hole before expiring and was not recoverable. But, I was left with a bad taste in my mouth despite my wanting to like the 7mm. I know if I keep hunting with the 7mm. logic would suggest that it will over a larger sample size perform very close to the 308 when using similar bullets. When I get the chance, I plan to test that hypothesis.

I am sure that many of you have experiences with one or both. Please post your stories about your favorite bullets in each and how they performed for you or your worst failures as both can be instructional. Below is the FN 308 in Walnut & Steel and the 7mm/08 in Carbon & Titanium. Which would you prefer to take hunting?

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Doug3006 said:

No one would be able to tell the difference between the two when used on small to midsized plains game. Both are effective, given similar bullet construction and velocities. That said, I haven’t used either in Africa. A 30-06 is a better choice than either the 308 or 7-08. It’ll handle heavier bullets than either of them.

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Doug3006 said:

No one would be able to tell the difference between the two when used on small to midsized plains game. Both are effective, given similar bullet construction and velocities. That said, I haven’t used either in Africa. A 30-06 is a better choice than either the 308 or 7-08. It’ll handle heavier bullets than either of them.

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JG26Irish_2 said:

I like the 30-06 as well and am working up to a hunt which may include mine. A recent polling of African hunters on top ten plains game cartridges listed the 308 as #2 and the 30-06 as #1. The 7mm/08 did not make the top ten.

I recently tested a load from Double Tap for my 30-06 loaded with 180g Swift Sciroccos. This load is rated at 2900fps and chrono'ed an actual MV in my rifle of 2790fps. That is within 100-150fps or thereabouts of the 180g loads for the 300wm. 30-06 has a lot to like. In hindsight, I would have been better off with it in Africa than the 7mm/08 but plan to keep hunting with the 7/08 when opportunity arises.

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JG26Irish_2 said:

Point well taken. I explored that option prior to the hunt but I do not reload for hunting rifles. Because, I simply do not shoot enough hunting rounds to justify the substantial investment in dies, powder, bullets, etc to do so in such small volume applications. Plus, I was unable to find any factory 7/08 loads heavier than 150fps and those were so slow that I ended up not using them.

I do reload for target competition ammo such as 308, 223, and 45acp.

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Firebird said:

I grew up in a .30 caliber family. When I had a family of my own I went in search of a “little girl gun.” I do my own load work up, test bullets and all that madness. I’ve even done it as a side business. The “girls” rem 700 in 7mm-08 changed my mind not only about that caliber but the .284 family as a whole. Watched them take mule deer and elk and antelope and eventually a mountain goat. I would finally use it to take my first whitetail and several more after that.
I’ve taken the .300 wm, the .30-06 and the 7mm-08 to the east cape On various excursions. (Also the .375 but that’s another topic). They are all extremely effective and like everyone else I have not lost any animals and only missed once or twice. (Most of you never miss so I guess I am special that way)
Honestly I would have chosen different bullets than most of you and yet we all claim to have done just fine!
So my assessment is that it doesn’t matter a damn bit! Shot placement is still king. Take the one that speaks to you and go knock Africa flat!
There is an hour long video on here and on YouTube somewhere so I’m not afraid to show the results of the “little seven.” Plus written reports on all the guns I’ve taken and would not hesitate to take again.

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Bill J H said:

JG26Irish - I really enjoyed the detail, data, and general information in your OP. I have and use all the cartridges in this discussion (308,7-08, 7x57, 270, 30-06); I hand-load for all of them as I find this fulfilling and I enjoy tinkering with loads.

Please bear with me as I go through a bit of my philosophy and then my "thoughts" might make better sense.

My Philosophy:

Personally, I always look at rifles (regardless of what they are) as, quite simply, a launching platform; I look at the cartridge (regardless of what it is) as the solid-fuel rocket propelling my projectile; my projectile is the ONLY thing that will come into contact with my target (unless I'm unlucky enough to get ran over by my target ).

I want my projectile to have adequate terminal performance to humanely dispatch whatever critter I'm shooting. For me this is penetration and "mushrooming" or increased frontal diameter ,might be a better term for some bullets.
Velocity at "impact" has a lot to do with this; velocity at the muzzle doesn't matter, other than the fact that it has an effect on the impact velocity. Impact velocity is the "velocity" that matters to the projectile: I can have 2850 fps at the muzzle, but my if my target is at 400 and my impact velocity is 1950 fps - I need a bullet that provides terminal performance at 1950 fps. (For context - these are actual numbers for one of my 308s using Sierra 150gr SBT GameKing bullets.) Some bullets, especially mono bullets need more impact velocity for their best performance.

Some folks use ft-lbs as the indicator of performance/killing power, but the more substantial (bigger/bulkier/denser) the target, the more one needs penetration. I believe a better indicator for this is momentum. Ft-lbs of energy relies heavily on squaring velocity and one can get a lot of ft-lbs of energy with a light, very fast projectile, but the penetration won't be there because there is a lack of momentum.

For me, although I often shoot "ring my steel" or punch holes in paper at 400, 500, or 600 yds...I HARDLY ever shoot animals over 300-325 and 90% of the time they are 200 and closer. That's just my preference. If I can't close the distance to 300ish, I just chalk it up as a win for the animal

I certainly want to use "Enough Gun", but at the same time, I have never felt the need to use way more gun than I need. There is no doubt 35 Whelen, 338WM, or 300WM launching a 180 or 200+ gr bullet at max velocity is has substantially more momentum and energy than a 308 or 30-06 launching a 165 gr at 2800 fps. However, based on my life of hunting experience, I've never needed the extra momentum, energy, and recoil, to take the game I've shot at the distances I shoot. I base this on quite a few elk, deer, hogs, Kudu, Wildebeest, Zebra, etc. One will note that I didn't list Eland, American Bison, big bears, etc. For these, I believe I'd like that extra "horsepower" LOL.

Lastly, I like carrying and handling lighter, shorter-barreled rifles topped with an ultra-light suppressor. 20" barrels are my preference, but my favorite 308 has an 18.75" tube.

Performance:

Since I hand-load, I can usually get better performance than factory ammo: I can ladder test for [pressure, use proper bullets to match my needs, tweak and re-tweak for accuracy, and finally settle on the best loading for a particular rifle.

I love Tikka rifles because for me they are not only very accurate right out of the box, I find that they are the perfect candidates for modifications. They generally have a long throat and I can seat bullets quite long for the cartridge. Since they are all "standard (or long...whichever you prefer) actions" I can get a long action bolt stop and a long action magazine and then seat bullets out WAY further than I can on true "short actions" with short action magazines. Seating longer gives me more powder capacity but not necessarily more pressure and this allows me to push heavier bullets at higher velocities than I can in true "short actions".

Subsequently, my suppresses, 18.75” Tikka 308, pushes my 165gr loads at 2730 fps. My suppressed, 20”, Tikka 7-08, pushes my 160 gr loads at 2715 fps. I can get more velocity, but this is the 3/4” grp node for these rifles.

I

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30-06Ken said:

It seems most have missed your original question of deciding between a 7mm-08 and the 7mm Rem Mag.,there is quite a wide gap between the two. Also, you didn't mention what animals you were targeting ? Blesbok, Springbok, Bushbuck size game or Kudu, Eland, Waterbuck etc ? You also wanted a gun that was more handy and maneuverable in the bush.

A 160 Grain TSX in a 7Mag can be pushed to almost 3000 fps in a 24" barrel and a 175 grain Nosler Partion to 2870 fps, the same bullets in a 7mm-08 are almost 350 fps slower a huge difference.

It seems like you wanted all shots to be dead right there, struck by lightning type kills. Your sample size is way too small, from what you mentioned. I have killed many whitetail deer with a 7mm-08 (Pennsylvania farm deer not Texas 100 pounders) and all have been one shot kills from 75 yards to 250 yards. I have found that going to a lighter bullet I can drive it faster creating more disruption. I can load a 120 grain TSX to almost 3000 fps just about equaling my .270 with 130 grain loads. When hit with a high shoulder shot the results are dramatic as if struck by lightning. When double lunged and hit with very little resistance from a bone then I have had them run up to 100 yards but recovered all of them, but the results would be the same if I shot them with a 300 WM. Shot placement is important and I have never recovered a Barnes bullet from a whitetail all are complete pass throughs.

As for a .308, I have used it in SA on Kudu, Eland, Waterbuck, Gemsbok all with one shot kills using 165 grain Nosler Accubonds. Honestly, I don't know why you didn't take your 30-06 ? calling it a mid range rifle ? As a former National Champion Rifle Marksman surely you know that the 30-06 is capable on plains game to 500 yards with the right bullet.

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