Mark Sullivan the Expose’

I find this whole discussion very interesting.
I can agree in part with both sides of the argument but at the same time, as one who has never even been to Africa (but dearly wants to!), I think the Sullivan detractors should admit that he’s done more to uphold the mystique of buffalo hunting than anyone else alive today.
Statistically, buff hunting isn’t all that dangerous. Hunters of every age and fitness successfully take buff with regularity.
Can things go sideways resulting in injury or death? Sure they can but rarely do.
More people are killed by horses every year in the US alone than are killed by Cape Buffalo throughout Africa and those buff related deaths are all deaths, not just hunters or PHs. What are the stats on those actually entering the ring with a buff vs a regular guy or woman who happens to cross paths with a wounded or angry buff? My guess is 50 to 1 against the poor villagers.

Also, which videos on Cape Buffalo get the most views?
Those videos help to cement the notion that buff hunting is special - that helps every outfitter and PH fill their quotas and keeps the prices at a premium.
What drove your desire to hunt Cape Buffalo? If they were docile like other bovines, would you get nearly as excited about them?
I’m not criticizing! I’m in the same boat.
I really want to check that buffalo hunt in Africa off my list but have no desire to shoot a Texas Longhorn or an Ankole-Watusi.
 
I would not have gotten interested in double rifles if it wasn’t for Mark. I told him so and thanked him at DSC a week ago.
BTW, I have two Heym doubles.
Speaks volumes .....enjoy your rifles .....
 
I would hunt with MS anytime, if he shoots my animal I would congratulate him on the nice trophy and shooting, now lets go find me one.

Boisterous, loud, brash and/or Alpha behaviour has never bothered or threatened me at all, have found over the decades all at arms reach are very cordial and polite ; ]
 
Sullivan Sighting:

IMG_2180.jpeg
 
There was a show, or some event organized by Craig Boddington, online, few years ago.
At that time he has just shot his 100th buffalo, after 40 years of African safari trips.
Audience could ask him any question, by sending email.

So, I asked:
After so many buffalos, how many charges did you experience?
Answer:
None. He did witness one charge, I think, on another hunter he hunted with.

I was really interested because I was planning at that time my first buffalo.

On the other hand, you have multiple and countless charges by buffalo and hippo recorded on video by Mark Sullivan.
I dont know about percentage, but there it is. A lot!

The alleged story is he is wounding the animals to provoke the charge.
I cannot say, if he really does that or not.
But numbers do not match between two hunters.
There is something about this. The discrepancy is so large that it is not logical.

Based on above, the charges do happen more often with mr Sullivan then with others, so he would not be my first choice for a PH, with all due respect.
The idea of a provoked DG charge, is not my favorite.
He inmediately pursues injured buffalo ,and he stated he had very few charges too.
 
Can he call me!!! just got his book on auction at dsc
I’ll ask my son to coordinate a meet and greet for you ;)

I was able to meet him in person and spend some time with him in Nashville at SCI - he is very generous with his time and fun to spend time with!

IMG_8943.jpeg
 
Mark is the very fast shooter
In no small part do to the pre-planned nature of “his” charges. I guess some people will forever be in denial and refuse to believe their own eyes and senses when watching his videos. Celebrity worship can be blinding…
 
I noticed that a lot of people don't like him. I have certainly never been involved in a case for injuring animals and similar things. Personally, I like hunting full of adrenaline and I could go with him as a guid
 
My Cape buffalo hunt is instructive here: We were looking specifically for a buff nicknamed "BadAss" because of his ornery behavior towards camp vehicles and other animals. I was assured he had a 40+" spread and thick boss.

We found him on our first morning, with two of his buddies quartering toward us at about 40yds. With my .450 Dakota, I put my first 500gr/2350fps Barnes TSX into his right shoulder/boiler room. One "friend" immediately ran off; the other stayed. BadAss clumped over, snorting raggedly, to a small bush 30yds away and hunkered down to decide his response. (My PH was muzzle-on to my right with his .375 H&H, and later told me that BadAss was preparing to charge.)

Once BadAss dropped his head to expose his neck, I pressed trigger for a spine shot. I was about 2" off, on the near side, but he still dropped like a rock:

first shots on buffalo.gif


He now had two mortal wounds from solid caliber/bullet/placement, though not yet convinced. His loyal friend trotted over. After I'd worked the bolt my peripheral vision picked up the second buff running over from the left. (My PH muttered, "Don't shoot him! ", which I nodded in assent.) It took us many minutes to shoo him away (without gunfire, and another trophy fee!), but meanwhile BadAss was reviving and struggling to stand. His right shoulder wouldn't support him, so he was trying to shift to his left leg. I maneuvered over to his left side for a finisher, shot #3. That did it. His friend even then hung about, and we had to Land Rover push him finally out of the area.

My point in describing that hunt here: While I could have delayed shots #2&3 in order to "let the animal choose how to die", I'm generally opposed to that notion. Shot #2 I took at the earliest moment, and I still think it was the right decision. Not only was my life to be overly risked by an avoidable charge (which Sullivan would have let happen, if not somehow provoked), so were the lives of my PH, a guest, and the trackers. I believe it wise and ethical to dispatch DG at the earliest feasible moment. However, if it charges before that moment, well, that's hunting!

Mark Sullivan being so controversial for decades betokens that he has crossed some line, or at least has flirted far too closely to it. I'd urge him and his fans some deep reflection. I'm not accusing Sullivan of actual fault, but I also cannot quite defend him, either.
 
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My Cape buffalo hunt is instructive here: We were looking specifically for a buff nicknamed "BadAss" because of his ornery behavior towards camp vehicles and other animals. I was assured he had a 40+" spread and thick boss.

We found him on our first morning, with two of his buddies quartering toward us at about 40yds. With my .450 Dakota, I put my first 500gr/2350fps Barnes TSX into his right shoulder/boiler room. One "friend" immediately ran off; the other stayed. BadAss clumped over, snorting raggedly, to a small bush 30yds away and hunkered down to decide his response. (My PH was muzzle-on to my right with his .375 H&H, and later told me that BadAss was preparing to charge.)

Once BadAss dropped his head to expose his neck, I pressed trigger for a spine shot. I was about 2" off, on the near side, but he still dropped like a rock:

View attachment 784095

He now had two mortal wounds from solid caliber/bullet/placement, though not yet convinced. His loyal friend trotted over. After I'd worked the bolt my peripheral vision picked up the second buff running over from the left. (My PH muttered, "Don't shoot him! ", which I nodded in assent.) It took us many minutes to shoo him away (without gunfire, and another trophy fee!), but meanwhile BadAss was reviving and struggling to stand. His right shoulder wouldn't support him, so he was trying to shift to his left leg. I maneuvered over to his left side for a finisher, shot #3. That did it. His friend even then hung about, and we had to Land Rover push him finally out of the area.

My point in describing that hunt here: While I could have delayed shots #2&3 in order to "let the animal choose how to die", I'm generally opposed to that notion. Shot #2 I took at the earliest moment, and I still think it was the right decision. Not only was my life to be overly risked by an avoidable charge (which Sullivan would have let happen, if not somehow provoked), so were the lives of my PH, a guest, and the trackers. I believe it wise and ethical to dispatch DG at the earliest feasible moment. However, if it charges before that moment, well, that's hunting!

Mark Sullivan being so controversial for decades betokens that he has crossed some line, or at least has flirted far too closely to it. I'd urge him and his fans some deep reflection. I'm not accusing Sullivan of actual fault, but I also cannot quite defend him, either.
@BTP-KennethWRoyce I don’t think Mark Sullivan needs anyone to “defend him”, he is well known, hasn’t changed, hunts “his way” and any client that signs on with him —-knows what he’s getting and likely wants it that way….He’s Not for everyone and doesn’t try to be.
 
@BTP-KennethWRoyce I don’t think Mark Sullivan needs anyone to “defend him”, he is well known, hasn’t changed, hunts “his way” and any client that signs on with him —-knows what he’s getting and likely wants it that way….He’s Not for everyone and doesn’t try to be.
I suspect it's more than a matter of mere taste, so I'll rest on what I've written: "Mark Sullivan being so controversial for decades betokens that he has crossed some line, or at least has flirted far too closely to it."
 
This summer I was at an event with the Double Rifle Society in Vegas. Mark was the keynote speaker. We shot Double Rifles on the range. I was having a sit in the shade for a little while when a fellow sat next to me and introduced himself, "Hi Im Mark" , Of course I knew who he was. We chatted for 20 min or so. I told him I was very new to Africa Hunting in fact Ive never been but it's a goal ive set, Im 65 and a late bloomer. He treated me like an old friend. Ive learned a long time ago that it's a mistake to judge a person you don't know. Im very surprised how negative and judgmental people can be particularly on the internet. It's too bad. If we were all kids I would probably be more understanding but we are mature adults with similar interests and a Nobel hobby. I would hope we could give people the benefit of the doubt. I dont know as of yet how I would handle a Buffalo hunt especially a charge. If the s... hit the fan and I could pick the guy next to me I think I would pick Mark. I didnt read every page of this string but I didnt see anyone that has hunted with him trashing him. Just sayin...
 
This summer I was at an event with the Double Rifle Society in Vegas. Mark was the keynote speaker. We shot Double Rifles on the range. I was having a sit in the shade for a little while when a fellow sat next to me and introduced himself, "Hi Im Mark" , Of course I knew who he was. We chatted for 20 min or so. I told him I was very new to Africa Hunting in fact Ive never been but it's a goal ive set, Im 65 and a late bloomer. He treated me like an old friend. Ive learned a long time ago that it's a mistake to judge a person you don't know. Im very surprised how negative and judgmental people can be particularly on the internet. It's too bad. If we were all kids I would probably be more understanding but we are mature adults with similar interests and a Nobel hobby. I would hope we could give people the benefit of the doubt. I dont know as of yet how I would handle a Buffalo hunt especially a charge. If the s... hit the fan and I could pick the guy next to me I think I would pick Mark. I didnt read every page of this string but I didnt see anyone that has hunted with him trashing him. Just sayin...
I generally agree, and do not know Sullivan at all in order to pass judgment on him (and did not). He may indeed be a kind, generous man and superlative shot. Something, however, seems to me off with his DG hunting philosophy. I've had vague qualms about it for 20 years. It's hard to put my finger on it, though, I'll admit. The issue is an excellent example of a valid hunting ethics question. I'm not 100% against it, but something seems askew about it. Worthy of more pondering . . . .
 
"Ive learned a long time ago that it's a mistake to judge a person you don't know."

1+(y)

But anyone who puts themselves in the public eye also has to accept that they'll be judged for it.
Still, it's a wise statement that applies to more than just MS.
 
This summer I was at an event with the Double Rifle Society in Vegas. Mark was the keynote speaker. We shot Double Rifles on the range. I was having a sit in the shade for a little while when a fellow sat next to me and introduced himself, "Hi Im Mark" , Of course I knew who he was. We chatted for 20 min or so. I told him I was very new to Africa Hunting in fact Ive never been but it's a goal ive set, Im 65 and a late bloomer. He treated me like an old friend. Ive learned a long time ago that it's a mistake to judge a person you don't know. Im very surprised how negative and judgmental people can be particularly on the internet. It's too bad. If we were all kids I would probably be more understanding but we are mature adults with similar interests and a Nobel hobby. I would hope we could give people the benefit of the doubt. I dont know as of yet how I would handle a Buffalo hunt especially a charge. If the s... hit the fan and I could pick the guy next to me I think I would pick Mark. I didnt read every page of this string but I didnt see anyone that has hunted with him trashing him. Just sayin...
I agree totally. I think a lot of the negativeness comes from those who might be envious of him.
 
I agree totally. I think a lot of the negativeness comes from those who might be envious of him.
I don’t think anyone said they didn’t like him as a person many just don’t particularly care for his method of hunting. I don’t but would love to have a conversation with him .
 
A thoughtful analysis of Sullivan's philosophy:
I think the idiosyncrasies of Mr. Sullivan and his inconsistent views of man and animal’s worth coalesce to make him a larger than life character perceived as a loose cannon with an illogical mind. It makes great reality television. On the other hand, it creates in the minds of some, a troubling hypocrisy as he claims to instill rights in dangerous game animals (right to self determination in death) that he does not instill in them moments earlier (right to self determination to live). It actually seems like he wishes to instill only as many rights in the animal as a cat instills in a mouse caught under paw; the personal pleasure of the dominate party must continue until the dominant party is bored with the situation. (whether housecat or Mr. Sullivan). He claims to want to give the animal equal footing to create an ultimate sense of “fairness” but carries such formidable weaponry (.577NE and .600NE) that it isn’t fair, he is going to obliterate the animal as was seen when he blew the jaw off a cape buffalo at 8’ that was standing in suffering ready to be dispatched calmly at 30’ until incited to charge. Many hunters would have preferred the animal be humanely dispatched with haste so as to keep the human beings in a position of safety and to reduce the animal's suffering but with Mr. Sullivan's hunt in the video neither of those two moral concerns were held to a higher value than getting the wounded buffalo to perform aggressively. I personally did not see the animal being given the choice "of how to die" that Mr. Sullivan speaks of so frequently, I saw a forced stimulus being thrust upon an animal that resulted in an instinctive response to charge as there were no other options remaining.

 
Statistically, buff hunting isn’t all that dangerous. Hunters of every age and fitness successfully take buff with regularity.
I think you look only from a single clients perspective.
And clients can be of all types.
Lousy to excellent hunters.
From young to middle age up to elderly men, in all kinds of physical shape.
Safe and unsafe in gun handling

Most likely, PH will adjust the hunt in such a manner for hunter to collect the DG animal, around his skills. and in saftest possible manner.

Charge if it happens will be stopped by PH gun.

One client, most likely will hunt one to 5 buffalos in a life time in average.
Very rare few collect big 5 or DG 7.

But you better look from PH perspective. 30- 40 years in business, hundreds of clients of all types. Maybe thousand of DG animals. And living with DG animals, does not mean you have to hunt, to have an encounter.

Something must happen in lifetime.
It is in their job description

From client perspective, maybe the situation happens once in a thousand times. But you better not be that "one in a thousand".

Take a look to this article:
But before reading this, I suggest also to take and read the booh "White hunters" by Brian Herne, and you will see how many of them in very high percentage lost their life, chasing after dangerous game wounded by clients (who stayed safe, while PH was doing his job)

So here it is:


By David E. Petzal

I grew up watching safari movies in which African professional hunters were portrayed by Clark Gable, Stewart Granger, Gregory Peck, and Rock Hudson, all splendid specimens of manhood. Then I went on safari, eleven of them, and encountered a great many PHs, not one of whom could pass as a matinee idol. They were a highly diverse lot of people, both in looks and personality, but what they had in common was an excess of courage, and a highly dangerous profession.

On one of my first safaris, in Botswana, our destinies were in the hands of two PHs, both South Africans, who had started out together 15 years earlier, gone their separate ways, and then reunited by sheer chance in the Kalahari Desert. They caught up on old times and old comrades, and discovered that of perhaps a half-dozen men, every one was dead. The causes were what you might expect: elephant, Cape buffalo, and neglected blackwater fever and sleeping sickness.

But there were two deaths that were really grotesque. One involved a PH who was speeding o’er the veldt in a Land Rover when a tree branch punctured the floor of the vehicle and went on to skewer his femoral artery. He bled to death, pinned in his seat. The other was a PH who ran a small cattle ranch in the off season, and whose marriage was breaking up. His wife heard a noise out where the cattle were penned, and told him to see what it was. When he refused, she called him a coward, which was intolerable, so out he went. What caused the commotion turned out to be a very big male lion which padded silently up behind him, slapped his head off his shoulders, and wandered off into the dark.

If you go on one safari, your chances of coming to a violent end are infinitesimal. However, if you participate nonstop for four months of the year, year after year, the prognosis is altogether different. In fact, I know of only two PHs who were at it a long time and escaped more or less unscathed. One was Harry Selby, who started in 1949 and retired in 2000, and the other was a French PH whom I met in Zambia (and whose name I’ve forgotten) who had more than 40 years on the job and whose sole mishap came when a Land Rover hood latch failed and cost him a finger.

PHs are not menaced merely by animals. Sometime their clients shoot them. Sometimes one PH will shoot another in a melee. A PH with whom I hunted did this to a colleague, and he was as careful, cautious, and level-headed as you could want, but when a wounded leopard comes at you like a rock out of a catapult from a few yards away, all bets are off. The colleague lived.

Many clients are atrocious shots, and lousy shooting on dangerous game means tracking down and executing something that wants to kill you very much. Forty years ago, a PH told me that Americans were the best marksmen around. Thirty years later, a different PH said that Americans were the worst — over-scoped, over-gunned, and unwilling to shoot unless it was over a bench rest. I think the current mania for long-range animal assassination has much to do with this.

A PH must be able to deal with all manner of people. A lot of them have a lot of money, a lot of ego, and will not be told what to do. A Zambian PH told me about a French nobleman who fell into that category. “I finally got fed up and told him that he was endangering himself, me, and the trackers, and that if he didn’t start listening I would bloody well drive him to Lusaka and put him on a plane. Not only did he reform, but he sort of fell in love with me. I was the first person who had ever told him he couldn’t do something.”

Or this from another Zambian PH: “I had two couples from Texas, and one of the men wounded a leopard that I had to follow up and kill. The other three called him a coward for not going with me. It never stopped. I finally told them, ‘This ends right here. I get paid to finish off game; he doesn’t. I didn’t ask him go with me. The lot of you shut up or the safari ends now.’”

Or this from a South African, hunting in the Kalahari: “This fellow was tremendously overweight, the heat was terrific, and the sand made walking difficult. He got about 100 meters, lay down, and said, ‘I can’t go on.’

“What I wanted to do was kick him in his bloody ribs and tell him to get on his feet or we’d leave him there, but I couldn’t, so I persuaded him to get up. Then I coaxed him into walking to the truck, which was right behind us. Then he sat down and drank most of a sisal water bag.”

But there are good clients: in shape, uncomplaining, able to accept failure as part of hunting, handy with their rifles, and thrilled just to be in Africa. That’s one incentive. The other is, professional hunting in Africa does not involve sitting in a cubicle and staring into a computer screen five days a week.

I think the saddest sentence I’ve ever read in an email came from a South African PH whom I have known a long, long time. He lives in Canada now, and it read: “I will never see Africa again.”

Dave Petzal has refused a PH only once, and that was when he told Dave to shoot an unwounded buffalo in the pitch dark just to see what would happen. Dave thought the idea was rash and imprudent and said so, although not in those words.

*This title being adapted from “A Policeman’s Lot Is not a Happy One,” from Gilbert & Sullivan’s operetta The Pirates of Penzance.
 

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Member of the South African Hunters and Game Conservation Association
supergrizzly wrote on AZDAVE's profile.
Dave, I could use both of them if still available. I just picked up a new .22 mag and a .22 pump that they would be perfect on.
MHYOUNG 375 wrote on DLSJR's profile.
Dan who is C. W. Richter? He seems to not be a fan of myself!
MHYOUNG 375 wrote on DLSJR's profile.
Who's this C. W. Richter? Seems to have a chip on his shoulder.
 
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