Sample of what the 358 Win can handle

BFaucett said:
Woodleigh lists a 310 gr RN but who knows if and when they will ever be in stock again.
https://www.woodleighbullets.com.au/bullet-lists/traditional/338-375-list
Cheers! Bob F.
Click to expand...
Yeah, the Woodleigh bullets are hard to find. MidwayUSA lists them as discontinued last I checked. No doubt their supply was cut off shortly after the fire at Woodleigh’s facility.

Interesting, Hawk’s bullet-selection list is pretty extensive. In fact, across a number of bullet calibers, it appears to duplicate the same weights as Woodleigh’s. I’m not sure if that’s intentional or not.
 
Jack Stevens said:
Yeah, the Woodleigh bullets are hard to find. MidwayUSA lists them as discontinued last I checked. No doubt their supply was cut off shortly after the fire at Woodleigh’s facility.

Interesting, Hawk’s bullet-selection list is pretty extensive. In fact, across a number of bullet calibers, it appears to duplicate the same weights as Woodleigh’s. I’m not sure if that’s intentional or not.
Click to expand...

In case you're not aware of it, there are two sources of Woodleigh bullets in the USA.

Raven Rocks Precision​
​
Reloading International​

With a quick check, I think both are currently out of stock on .358 bullets but you might want to keep an eye on them.

Just trying to be helpful... Cheers! Bob F.
 
Rick HOlbert said:
View attachment 780512View attachment 780512View attachment 780513View attachment 780514
The sable bull at the top was an animal I hunted for 3 years. I like unusual mounts. He was an old warrior and deserved a clean end rather than letting the hyena's and jackels have him.
Click to expand...

Very, very nice, Rick! Congrats!

Ah, yes... the .35 caliber cartridges. There's the good ol' .35 Whelen, the .358 Win, and the .350 Rem Mag to name a few. And then there are some that are a classic but they fade away and are largely forgotten. A good example is the 9x57 Mauser.

I find it interesting that the case length of the 9x57 is basically halfway between the .358 Winchester (approx 51mm) and the .35 Whelen (approx 63mm).

It's no wonder that your .358 Win felt right at home in Africa! What's old becomes new again.

(I have a .35 Whelen but I've never hunted anything with it.)

Just my ramblings... Cheers! Bob F. :)


9x57mm Mauser
Cartridge Board column By: Gil Sengel
Handloader April/May 2019
https://www.handloadermagazine.com/cartridge-board-12

9×57mm Mauser
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9×57mm_Mauser


1785715421628.jpeg


1785715697108.jpeg
 
Last edited:
BFaucett said:
In case you're not aware of it, there are two sources of Woodleigh bullets in the USA.

Raven Rocks Precision​
​
Reloading International​

With a quick check, I think both are currently out of stock on .358 bullets but you might want to keep an eye on them.

Just trying to be helpful... Cheers! Bob F.
Click to expand...
BF, Swift also offers a 300grn 35 caliber bullet but,... who knows when they will be available again. I get my North Fork and Woodleigh bullets from Reloading International. Good folks to deal with.
 
BFaucett said:
Very, very nice, Rick! Congrats!

Ah, yes... the .35 caliber cartridges. There's the good ol' .35 Whelen, the .358 Win, and the .350 Rem Mag to name a few. And then there are some that are a classic but they fade away and are largely forgotten. A good example is the 9x57 Mauser.

I find it interesting that the case length of the 9x57 is basically halfway between the .358 Winchester (approx 51mm) and the .35 Whelen (approx 63mm).

It's no wonder that your .358 Win felt right at home in Africa! What's old becomes new again.

(I have a .35 Whelen but I've never hunted anything with it.)

Just my ramblings... Cheers! Bob F. :)


9x57mm Mauser
Cartridge Board column By: Gil Sengel
Handloader April/May 2019
https://www.handloadermagazine.com/cartridge-board-12

9×57mm Mauser
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9×57mm_Mauser


View attachment 781599

View attachment 781600
Click to expand...
STOP it!

You are making me want to find a 9x57 and I don't need more rifles...I need to sell rifles! :ROFLMAO:
 
tarbe said:
STOP it!

You are making me want to find a 9x57 and I don't need more rifles...I need to sell rifles! :ROFLMAO:
Click to expand...
That's the same thing I tell myself! Took a couple of my cherished Mannlicher/Schoenauer's to a gun show this past weekend to sell. Happily brought them back home as no one wants a finely made rifle anymore unless it's given to them! Well, I tried and failed and was happier when I returned home than when I left!;) lol
 
7x57Joe said:
That's the same thing I tell myself! Took a couple of my cherished Mannlicher/Schoenauer's to a gun show this past weekend to sell. Happily brought them back home as no one wants a finely made rifle anymore unless it's given to them! Well, I tried and failed and was happier when I returned home than when I left!;) lol
Click to expand...
Amen to that brother! I guess I'm just old school as a rifle with finely grained wood that looks a mile deep with a deep blue finish makes my heart beat a little harder. These plastic/carbon fiber stocks with carbon wrapped barrels leave me cold. To me they are tools. On the other hand, wood stocked rifles are a sign of craftsmanship and can be a work of art and still be a joy to hunt with. I guess that's what happens in a throw away society. Glad you still have those rifles. enjoy them.
 
Attached is a brief (2 page) article about the 9x57 Mauser that I thought might be of interest. Unfortunately, the attached article isn't dated but my downloaded file is dated Jan 2010 (file properties).

Cheers! Bob F. :)


Excerpts:

The 9mm Mauser​
By Charlie Haley​
​
"The ballistics of the 9mm Mauser are somewhat confusing, as there were a number of bullet weights available and two distinctly different load levels. Bullet weights available ranged from 205 grains up to 281 grains, but the standard Kynoch loading (and the one which established this cartridge's reputation) was a 245-grain round-nosed bullet (available as a solid or a soft-nose) at 2150 feet per second. Other factory ammunition was loaded somewhat hotter, particularly the German DWM sporting ammunition, which offered a 247-grain bullet at an alleged 2310 feet per second. Under Zimbabwe's National Parks regulations the 9mm Mauser fits quite happily in the calibres suited for Class 'C' animals (general big game), which includes Kudu, Zebra, Sable, Waterbuck and the like."​
​
"A few (a very few) Model 70 Winchesters were made for the 9mm Mauser in 1937, using left-over Model 54 barrels and probably as a special order item only. It then sadly expired as far as the Americans were concerned."​


See the attached pdf file.
 

Attachments

Rick HOlbert said:
Howdy Jack. Cases are Star Line. Bullet was the Woodleigh Weldcore RN 225grn. I used W748 powder ( I won't list the charge weight for liability reasons ) with the overall length at 2.80in. Chronographs at 2520fps in my 22in barrel with no pressure signs. 225grn Barnes TSX's use the same load but, due to the longer length really compress the powder but again no pressure signs. If you wish, send a personal message and I'll give you the powder charge but work up to it as it may not be safe in your rifle.
Click to expand...

Pardon my forwardness, but I will gladly send a DM to learn your loading data ....

Also, I view your mindset of pursuing a resilient Sable bull of that caliber, to be superlative! If I ever make it across the "pond" again, everyone in my close circle knows my goal will be to pursue the a specimen in the same class as the Sable stud you shared in your OP.

Persuit of a wily, weathered, worn, battle scared, true titan who has survived, that is the hunt that tests, in my view.
 
@Jack Stevens , I can 2nd what @Rick HOlbert , has conveyed regarding "Hawk" , I came into a lot of standard projectiles 225Grn projectiles -100ct, fired out of a Win M70 that was rebarrled to .358Win, having no knowledge of the Hawk's projectiles, until then, I used a standard loading formula (lite), the projectiles grouped no better than 1 7/8in + 2 flyers [5 shots] (consistent wild flyers) with IMR3031- CCI Large Primers, 100yd zero, as charge increased the group size increased. The other test was with H4895, and it never shot better than 2in group [5 shot], didn't increase charge in that set.

That is not to detract from Hawk components, as I know of several Reloaders who have great success with many calibers, .358W included. Also, we have some .458WinMag loaded with Hawk 400Grn x .035 , not my loading , that do very well.

My comment is not meant to be negative only informative.
 
Rick HOlbert said:
View attachment 780512View attachment 780512View attachment 780513View attachment 780514
The sable bull at the top was an animal I hunted for 3 years. I like unusual mounts. He was an old warrior and deserved a clean end rather than letting the hyena's and jackels have him.
Click to expand...
@Rick HOlbert
I would expect nothing less from the 358.
Were they all with the 225gn Woodleigh RNSP.
You need to let people know the load you used.
The 358 is very underrated. Them what has one know how good it is and keep them. Then you have those that want one. Then you have the naysayers that think it's nothing but a short range bush cartridge that writer told a lot of bullshit about.
The little 358 hits harder than the paper ballistics say it should
Well done ya 'ol redneck.
 
Nosler guy said:
I don't have a .358 Win - a closet full of Whelen's. Yah us .35 guys struggle a bit with bullet selection and availability. We've found that the 225 Accubond matches up really well with the velocities of the Whelen ( thinking the .358 being very close). Readily available and great performance - If I was shooting a .358 Win, probably the first bullet I'd try.
Click to expand...
@Nosler guy
The 358 with the 225gn Woodleigh falls almost 400fps short of a properly loaded Whelen.
@Rick HOlbert top loads give him a touch over 2,500fps. My Whelen with 225s and a snoot full of CFE 223 gives me 2,900fps. I can assure you those accubonds and Woodleigh are hell on wheels and flatten game very emphatically.
Bob
 
Nosler guy said:
Now I'm curious - what kinda game at what ranges, with your .358, did you have these "bullet failures". Always trying to learn something ...
Click to expand...
@Nosler guy
I push those accubonds to 2,900fps in my Whelen and can assure you that the frontal shot in my kudu didn't need a second shot.
The range was 120yards and that bull kudu was hit front on in the chest. That bullet destroyed the chest cavity, went thru the rumen and guts and lodged in the rear left ham. That's close to five foot of penetration. The bullet retained 73% of its weight at 175gn
Bob
225gn accubond recovered from my kudu.
Textbook expansion. My 2,900fps
20200123_133438.jpg
20200123_133415.jpg
 
Jack Stevens said:
Sorry to hear that, but good to know.

In my .350 Mag Rem M660, I’ve been trying to replicate an old Ken Waters 300grn load with Hawk’s RT bullets that have a JT of of .035. In his Pet Loads chapter on my cartridge, Waters used Barnes’ 300grn/.358” RNSP @ 2250fps to develop a DG load, but sadly Barnes long ago discontinued those bullets.

Hawk was the only bullet-maker I’ve found that offers a 300grn/.358” bullet (and in different JTs too). Maybe somebody else does that I’ve overlooked.

I’ve also have an order into Hawk for the same 300grn slugs with a .050 JT, just to test and see if there’s any accuracy difference.
Click to expand...
@Jack Stevens
Woodleigh does a beautiful 310gn RNSP and a nice 310gn flat point solid with a lead jacket, steel outer and copper over that.
In the Whelen I load these to 2,455 fps with H4350.
Bob
 
Bob Nelson 35Whelen said:
@Rick HOlbertThe little 358 hits harder than the paper ballistics say it should.
Click to expand...
That sentiment has been expressed more broadly several times by Rifle & Handloader magazine writer Jon Barness regarding the .35-cal/.358 class generally - to include the Whelen, the Rem. Mag., and Norma's Mag.

Barness basically argues that .358 cartridges kill out of all disproportion to what their paper ballistics would suggest and have done so across a wide variety of big and dangerous game; yet, in the field, they seem less popular statistically than the .300- and .338-class cartridges.
 
Bob Nelson 35Whelen said:
@Jack Stevens
Woodleigh does a beautiful 310gn RNSP and a nice 310gn flat point solid with a lead jacket, steel outer and copper over that. In the Whelen I load these to 2,455 fps with H4350.
Click to expand...
I'd like to try the 310gn RNSPs if a few boxes ever show up somewhere in the U.S. Hens teeth it seems.
 
Don't discount the .356 Winchester, even though the bl. is only 20" long. I loaded for my bro when he was guiding moose hunters. The 250gr. Hornady R.N. @2,150fps worked splendidly on wounded moose. One load that shot well, never used on game, was the 220gr. Speer FN @ 2,550fps.
 
Bob Nelson 35Whelen said:
@Nosler guy
I push those accubonds to 2,900fps in my Whelen and can assure you that the frontal shot in my kudu didn't need a second shot.
The range was 120yards and that bull kudu was hit front on in the chest. That bullet destroyed the chest cavity, went thru the rumen and guts and lodged in the rear left ham. That's close to five foot of penetration. The bullet retained 73% of its weight at 175gn
Bob
225gn accubond recovered from my kudu.
Textbook expansion. My 2,900fps
View attachment 781888View attachment 781889
Click to expand...
Hey Bob - pretty much what we are seeing outta the .35 cal accubonds - text book killers. Wholeheartedly agree with your comments.

I'm having a bit of a hard time with the mention of Accubond failures - woulda liked to have seen that Safari for myself - however we'll have to take the word of that member, he was there, we weren't ...

Further on that - you can often see a real variation between different batches of the same bullet from any manufacturer. We had brutal results/performance from a couple of different bullet weights, in a couple of different calibres, with the early Barnes TSX (bad enough that I'll have a hard time using their products again) Yet dozens of members uses those bullets, and swear by them. I suspect that we were just unlucky and got ahold of a couple of bad batches - could easily happen with any manufacturer and any bullet. The thing that bothers me most - is when the manufacters never come clean and admit there was a problem after the fact.
 
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