Politics

Red Leg said:

The captain of the cruiser was not relieved of command or charged. However, he also was never promoted to admiral. He and his operations team concluded the radar contact was an F-14. They did indeed issue several warnings though most were on a military "guard" channel which was not monitored by civilian aircraft. However, the real culprit was somehow determining that the aircraft's ascending flight path out of Bandar Abbas was a descending one. I do not believe it was ever determined if this was a technical glitch of the then new Aegis radar system or operator confusion or combination of the two.

There is no evidence that the crew of the airbus were "extremists." They were a normal crew taking off on a regularly scheduled civilian flight in a Airbus widebody with 274 passengers on the international flight path from that airport. The profile between it and an F-14 is rather different. Moreover, the nearby guided -missile frigate USS Sides non-concurred with the Vincennes declaring the aircraft non-hostile.

The point is that the US acknowledged its responsibility, however grudgingly, and negotiated a reparations payment to the victim's families.

We also would not try to hide some military catastrophe involving TWA-800.

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You obviously know way more about it than I do. I was never in the military (an accident at 14 left me with several missing fingers). So I was working off memory. After 9/11, I would guess that they would still launch the missile, or would they?

Doug Hamilton said:

You obviously know way more about it than I do. I was never in the military (an accident at 14 left me with several missing fingers). So I was working off memory. After 9/11, I would guess that they would still launch the missile, or would they?

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Good question. I actually suspect not, but for technical reasons. The Aegis radar system is so good now, the likelihood of it mistaking a wide body airliner for a fighter bomber is so small as to be nearly impossible. Plus, a carrier battle group today acts as a fully integrated air defense system where it is difficult for a single warship to make a bad call. That said on December 22, 2024 the Gettysburg, an Aegis cruiser, shot down an FA 18 Super Hornet operating off the Truman. The crew successfully ejected. This happened during an active Houthi attack.

I was in Riyadh as an Army attaché at our embassy during the incident with the Vincennes. Our naval attaché spent a lot of time over the next month or so explaining to regional partners why we would be unlikely to do that again, and particularly not to one of their airliners.

Ontario Hunter said:

Dry thunder here again this morning. No wind thankfully. But we can expect more forest fires as woods are very dry from a week of hot weather. So get ready for more Canadian smoke. Of course this is entirely our fault because we don't get out there and rake our forests.

https://www.politico.com/states/california/story/2020/08/20/trump-blames-california-for-wildfires-tells-state-you-gotta-clean-your-floors-1311059

What makes Trump's lack of logic even more lacking is the burning forests in California were managed by the federal US Forest Service not the "libtard" California state Democrats. Absolutely doesn't have a clue. Anyway, the problem with fires in California is not mismanagement of forests but rather failing to control real estate developers like Trump from building homes and communities in places with known extreme fire history ... even before global warming.

Hard to believe Americans would vote someone that utterly stupid in for a SECOND term as president. And then you wonder why this so called war in Iran is about as well thought out as ballroom dancing physiotherapy for quadriplegics. What did you expect? Trump proved himself to be an idiot and a fool a long time ago. Bigger fools are those voted in to Congress who could control his senseless whimsies but don't. Just screw those partisan binders on tighter.

Crap ... wind just now picking up. Gad, I hope it rains.

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Thats not exactly how it is in Ca. when I lived and worked there in the timber industry Ca, had the most restrictive timber harvest plan requirements in the west , Oregon was 2nd. Then when you finally get a plan approved the tree huggers would sue to stop it, then there were the spotted owl and marbled murrelet bird to restrict more. The largest private land owner in Ca. is Sierra Pacific Ind. [timber] the USFS also has the ability to stop any timber cut for various reasons ,the whole state is a tinder box for fires its manzenita brush down south and dead and down timber up north. the heavy grass and brush carry a ground fire and the thick over story in trees carries a wind driven canopy fire .
house developments simply burn because theyre there not because they increase fire danger.Its the fuel load and the weather .

Red Leg said:

Good question. I actually suspect not, but for technical reasons. The Aegis radar system is so good now, the likelihood of it mistaking a wide body airliner for a fighter bomber is so small as to be nearly impossible. Plus, a carrier battle group today acts as a fully integrated air defense system where it is difficult for a single warship to make a bad call. That said on December 22, 2024 the Gettysburg, an Aegis cruiser, shot down an FA 18 Super Hornet operating off the Truman. The crew successfully ejected. This happened during an active Houthi attack.

I was in Riyadh as an Army attaché at our embassy during the incident with the Vincennes. Our naval attaché spent a lot of time over the next month or so explaining to regional partners why we would be unlikely to do that again, and particularly not to one of their airliners.

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You have had a great life. I have envy of you

cwpayton said:

Thats not exactly how it is in Ca. when I lived and worked there in the timber industry Ca, had the most restrictive timber harvest plan requirements in the west , Oregon was 2nd. Then when you finally get a plan approved the tree huggers would sue to stop it, then there were the spotted owl and marbled murrelet bird to restrict more. The largest private land owner in Ca. is Sierra Pacific Ind. [timber] the USFS also has the ability to stop any timber cut for various reasons ,the whole state is a tinder box for fires its manzenita brush down south and dead and down timber up north. the heavy grass and brush carry a ground fire and the thick over story in trees carries a wind driven canopy fire .
house developments simply burn because theyre there not because they increase fire danger.Its the fuel load and the weather .

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You got that right. My family still.owns a section of timberland on the Mendocino coast. My best friend has 20 acres in the Sierra foothills. My brother.can't sell his house near Napa because fire insurance is impossible to get. The politicians have blocked all control burning "to prevent air pollution" and the understory moves closer to a giant firestorm every year until it burns. No one can can prevent fires forever. I blame Smoky Bear for the ignorance.

Happy Myles said:

You have had a great life. I have envy of you

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Might want to chat with my wife about that. I have only heard you tell a couple of your adventures. While we can still sit without drooling, we need to share a good bottle of single malt and share a few more.

Ontario Hunter said:

How could it have been worse? Do you think she would be throwing around nonsense tariffs like confetti? Could she do a worse job of running this Iran war foolishness? I mean, she's obviously not stupid enough to think it's okay to inject disinfectant or forest fires are caused by failure to rake the woods. . .

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I see you are trolling again with the inject disinfectant, BS again, that you know is false.

Frankly, maybe the US Forest Service should "sweep" the forest floor. All the ski areas call it Glading so you can ski the trees. Down here we call it HyrdoAxing, I suspect you know that too. There is too much fuel on the forest floor is why we get fires that are uncontrollable. Way too much fuel for a controlled burn.

Brent in Az said:

True, but those points in time didn't have the modern healthcare, Vaccines, and technology that we do today.
I wonder what the black death was comprised of? Sounds pretty scary.

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It was a kind of bacterial infection. Apparently it still pops up every now and then in DRC, Madagascar, and Peru but it’s pretty treatable in most of the world. Antibiotics were a game changer.

wesheltonj said:

I see you are trolling again with the inject disinfectant, BS again, that you know is false.

Frankly, maybe the US Forest Service should "sweep" the forest floor. All the ski areas call it Glading so you can ski the trees. Down here we call it HyrdoAxing, I suspect you know that too. There is too much fuel on the forest floor is why we get fires that are uncontrollable. Way too much fuel for a controlled burn.

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I’m surprised the forest thing is even being brought up again.

Forest agencies in California of all places have admitted that the lack of logging and suppression of natural burning have led to massive accumulations of deadfall and worsened wildfires.

Old growth forest is hard to control.
The Yellowstone park fire of 1988 burned 748, 000 acres. Approx 36% of the park.
I was up there in 1989 after the fire. It looked like a wasteland.
The scientists say that those fires revitalize the forest, even if it takes decades to regrow.?

Florida AG is opening an investigation into Fauci.

I’m unsure if the same applies in the west but here on the east coast you’ve now got to consult anyone who’s ever carried a feather if you plan on cutting on crown land , on top of that they have also forced our pulp mills into receivership so there is little point to jump through the hoops anymore anyway when private tracts are easier and more cost effective to work

Tubby’s Canteen said:

I’m unsure if the same applies in the west but here on the east coast you’ve now got to consult anyone who’s ever carried a feather if you plan on cutting on crown land , on top of that they have also forced our pulp mills into receivership so there is little point to jump through the hoops anymore anyway when private tracts are easier and more cost effective to work

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Same here. My daughter, SIL, wife and I bought 40 acres of timberland on the Washington coast. We mostly wanted it as recreation property for camping with the grandkids, but we wanted it thinned and cannot find a mill to take the trees. When we find a mill that will do it, the county refuses permits. You'd think that the loggers and mill workers without work didn't mean anything to them.

The forest naturally looks after its self. Parts of northern Ontario were infested with spruce bud worm 8 years ago hundreds of thousands of acres with millions of dead spruce and balsam fir tress. No good for pulp or 2x4’s. Fire cleans everything up, new young growth for moose, deer and others that survived the fires. Most cones and seeds in the boreal forest need the heat of the fire for germinating. Our wild blueberry plants produce less fruit on old plants, but 2 to 3 years after a fire bumper crop because the ash feeds the new plants.
There is no reason to fight forest fires in northern Ontario unless it gets close to a community. You get smoke for a couple days here and there then the wind switches and well all good.
And yes we have the same issues as our friend from Nova Scotia. Thunder Bay on the north shore of Lake Superior had 3 pulp and paper plants and a couple wafer board and osb plants plus a couple sawmills in the 90’s, now one paper mill left.

RLD said:

I'm surprised the idea of the unnecessary killing of civilians means nothing to you.

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I've thought about this all day. It could be that the definition of civilian has either changed or needs to change with respect to war. @RLD I'm not calling you out; this quote serves to help me work through my academic thought exercise. I'm speaking from the US first-person perspective. Somebody tell me I'm wrong.

It could be that the killing of civilians IS necessary in the modern arena of warfare. Disclaimer: I'm a civilian and a layman when it comes to militaria; I'm making this up as I go along. There is no conscription anymore. In the time of conscription, civilians were drafted into military service. The killing of "our boys" would have been enough to influence the hearts and minds of the people to continue or cease a war effort. Why? The boys at war and the families at home were all personally invested in the war effort. This ended after Vietnam (to my GenX way of thinking) Now we have an unconstitutional, standing, professional army whose job it is to remain war-ready and to go to war. War efforts are detached from the civilian's heart and mind; all we see is a video game on TV. The soldiers know what they are getting into, they volunteered, and they are paid to be full-time warriors. There may be general outrage at the prospect of war, but those with the outrage rarely have anything personally invested.

Likewise, the face of the enemy has changed. There no longer exists a united front against a singular individual enemy (King George, the Kaiser, Hitler/The Axis Powers, the NVA, the USSR, etc.). Even in great world wars with multiple countries and leaders in play, you cut off the head, the enemy dies. You deplete the enemy's resources, its ability to fight is curtailed. That is no longer true; the enemy is an ideology and the enemy is among us- the enemy is no longer "over there"; the enemy is here and we're not allowed to point a finger at it, speak against it, bully it, fight it, restrain it, or imprison it. We're told we have to accept it, show no bias against it, embrace it, co-exist with it. When you are not allowed to rally against your opponent and when there is no united front, the battle can't even begin.

During the "Cold War" (I use that term loosely) Rocky fought the greatest battle against the Soviets and the US was united as one in that fight. A loose band of high school Wolverines fought a Soviet invasion on US soil and prevailed. Jack Ryan stole a Russian submarine. Even if it was only fiction, the US beat the Russians at everything and we were united in those battles. When you know for sure who the enemy is, you can fight the tiniest, insignificant of battles and win the war of HEARTS AND MINDS.

I'll conclude and limit my thought to the current Iran crisis since that's the topic of the day. Iran has been a problem for the US since the hostage crisis of 1979. I was a 3rd grade Cub Scout in those days and I remember vividly that issue affecting me and all my young friends at the time. We were politically charged by the likes of Mad and Cracked magazines; we watched the news with our parents and we knew what was going on. Seriously, almost 50 years of putting up with Iran and Afganistan and whatever-stan.

War is no longer a board game for the leaders of countries to move pawn armies around a geographic board like it's a game of Risk. Today, everyone is involved whether they want to be or not. There should not be a military distinction between civilian and combatant. The old rules of soldiers and civilians don't apply anymore; this isn't a football game where some play and the rest watch. Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out IF you're saying you're going to war.

OTOH, I quote my favorite philosopher of the 1990s: “People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along? Can we get along? Can we stop making it, making it horrible for the older people and the kids? … It’s just not right. It’s not right. It’s not, it’s not going to change anything. [ …] Please, we can get along here. We all can get along. I mean, we’re all stuck here for a while. Let’s try to work it out. Let’s try to beat it. Let’s try to beat it. Let’s try to work it out." -Rodney King

Conclusion: Making no distinction between civilian and military combatant might bring conflicts to a more decisive end more quickly in the modern age. I close with this image to rest my weakly argued case; why do you think the baddest MF'n knife Spyderco makes is called the Civilian?

spike.t said:

Chinese virus was a blip....doesn't even get a make top 5 ....and wold population was tiny back then compared to today

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Good thing we had modern medicine to fight back against this recent one then.

I have to laugh at the Democrats partners in media lack of self awareness.

Up to 8000 migrants per day flooded across the U.S. southern border for years. CNN ignored our border for years. And did not show the hordes stacked up daily.

Now Spain has several thousand immigrants walk across from Morocco and the Democrats partners in the media suddenly appear interested in illegal immigration.

Ontario Hunter, the major land/resource management agencies In the US are huge, bloated bureaucracies who have been infected with greenies, top to bottom, for decades. Whole offices full of federal paperwork shufflers scrutinizing every single harvesting use or special use permit from porta potty placement to postage stamp sized timber harvest contracts to commercial harvest contracts. Trump hardly has any control of such entrenched, deep state bureaucracies. Every time he tries to remove choke points of sane management, some leftist activist judge as prompted by the Dems or TDS infected activist group or “Save the rose breasted mattress thrasher” group blocks the attempt. In other words you and your big gov, libtard, socialist buddies, better look in the mirror when criticizing sane timber or other resource management. Choke points of bureaucratic paralysis are everywhere! Those with clinical TDS, such as yourself, are blind and ignorant and currently experiencing the fruits of your previous obstructionist, preservationist efforts and too stupid to realize it. No more complicated than that. Enjoy the stench of burning spotted owl feathers and drink more cough syrup!

The only thing Cornyn and Tillis need in writing is to wear a placard around the swamp for the remainder their terms that reads in bold print, “Crybaby RINO”.