Thoughts on Cape Buffalo under 40"

DLSJR said:
I just got the shipment from my Selous hunt in 2023 (SSI screwed the pooch on CITES permit, so it took forever) and thought it might be of interest to see the skulls from 4 different Tanzania bulls, all of which are older bulls ranging from estimated 10 to 13/14 years old. All mature Dugga Boy bulls. All these fully mature bulls were as big as they were going to get and ALL of them have a gap between their fully developed bosses.

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The bull on far left came from Mlele, in SW Tanzania. The next bull came from Maswa North, in NW Tanzania. The 3rd & 4th bulls were from the Selous in SE Tanzania. The actual skulls (not horns, skulls) of the Selous bulls are noticeably larger than the other bulls. I didn’t expect that and find it interesting.
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love the tusks by the fireplace!!!!!
 
I read this string and think about the differences in Philosophies. If you went to Alaska moose hunting would most of you shoot an old, on the decline old bull or a proud 65 to 70 in monster. Yet In Africa many of you say its age age age. If you can get the age ALONG with the size you desire, great. Or for those that have already taken a number of bulls, so be it --take the scull cap, but Most American hunters on there first few Buffalo hunts want some width and some boss, Just my opinion of course.
 
curt672 said:
I read this string and think about the differences in Philosophies. If you went to Alaska moose hunting would most of you shoot an old, on the decline old bull or a proud 65 to 70 in monster. Yet In Africa many of you say its age age age. If you can get the age ALONG with the size you desire, great. Or for those that have already taken a number of bulls, so be it --take the scull cap, but Most American hunters on there first few Buffalo hunts want some width and some boss, Just my opinion of course.
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I think that each hunter needs to decide for themselves just what they seek in a trophy.

But I am glad, perhaps proud even, to see that many hunters now prioritize age and character over trophy size. I think it is a great trend and hope it continues.
 
curt672 said:
I read this string and think about the differences in Philosophies. If you went to Alaska moose hunting would most of you shoot an old, on the decline old bull or a proud 65 to 70 in monster. Yet In Africa many of you say its age age age. If you can get the age ALONG with the size you desire, great. Or for those that have already taken a number of bulls, so be it --take the scull cap, but Most American hunters on there first few Buffalo hunts want some width and some boss, Just my opinion of course.
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There is adventure in hunting buffalo, or other dangerous game, that cannot be measured in inches.
 
curt672 said:
I read this string and think about the differences in Philosophies. If you went to Alaska moose hunting would most of you shoot an old, on the decline old bull or a proud 65 to 70 in monster. Yet In Africa many of you say its age age age. If you can get the age ALONG with the size you desire, great. Or for those that have already taken a number of bulls, so be it --take the scull cap, but Most American hunters on there first few Buffalo hunts want some width and some boss, Just my opinion of course.
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The problem with comparing Cape buffalo with moose is I believe in many areas moose have a minimum width and a minimum number of brow tines. So the old declining bull may not meet these requirements anymore. It’s easier to compare horned game with other horned game not horned game to antlered game that replace their headgear every year. Of course this is only my opinion.
 
For myself I like the Cape Buffalo that has everything width, drops, and big Bosses.
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curt672 said:
I read this string and think about the differences in Philosophies. If you went to Alaska moose hunting would most of you shoot an old, on the decline old bull or a proud 65 to 70 in monster. Yet In Africa many of you say its age age age. If you can get the age ALONG with the size you desire, great. Or for those that have already taken a number of bulls, so be it --take the scull cap, but Most American hunters on there first few Buffalo hunts want some width and some boss, Just my opinion of course.
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The biggest difference is moose aren’t hunted behind a fence, moose aren’t genetically bred or selectively bred for certain characteristics such as width, and there isn’t a price difference in size.

In wild Africa, any truly old hard bosses bull is a trophy and unless you’re hunting certain concessions with high numbers of buffalo you might spend 5-10 days chasing one good bull. Just like in Alaska a 50” bull is a great trophy, and many hunters aren’t going to pass unless they know they’re in an area with better trophy potential or know of a bigger bull.
 
curt672 said:
I read this string and think about the differences in Philosophies. If you went to Alaska moose hunting would most of you shoot an old, on the decline old bull or a proud 65 to 70 in monster. Yet In Africa many of you say its age age age. If you can get the age ALONG with the size you desire, great. Or for those that have already taken a number of bulls, so be it --take the scull cap, but Most American hunters on there first few Buffalo hunts want some width and some boss, Just my opinion of course.
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That is right, you cannot compare Moose hunting to buffalo hunting. As others have already noted, it is much harder to bag a trophy-class Moose than a trophy class buffalo; with buffalo, provided they are present in the hunting area, game density is usually high, allowing often you to be selective about what you shoot. With Moose, the situation is completely different. The terrain is often very difficult to go, and the climatic conditions are far more challenging that in Africa. Game density is low, so that bagging a trophy Moose was the primary goal for many of us in the past, often becoming something like an obsession. For this reason, after several hunts and ultimately a successful one where I shot a Moose in the 65" class, I stopped hunting Moose. When it comes to trophies, hunting buffalo is for me a much more relaxed affair than hunting Moose.
 
curt672 said:
I read this string and think about the differences in Philosophies. If you went to Alaska moose hunting would most of you shoot an old, on the decline old bull or a proud 65 to 70 in monster. Yet In Africa many of you say its age age age. If you can get the age ALONG with the size you desire, great. Or for those that have already taken a number of bulls, so be it --take the scull cap, but Most American hunters on there first few Buffalo hunts want some width and some boss, Just my opinion of course.
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I get a bit frustrated with this Age Age Age narrative. I think it’s definitely a good change from shooting younger bulls that weren’t fully hard bossed, but I think it’s getting ridiculous where hunters keep adding years on to buffalo. Most buffalo taken are in the 8-10 year age group. In a wild area, a buffalo has to survive a lot of poachers, hunters, lions, fighting other buffalo, droughts to make it 12 plus. On a South African ranch, they are harvested as a crop. There’s no reason to keep them longer than that 8-10 year age. They don’t bring in more money and every extra year is a chance of them dying of natural causes. I think valuing age is a good change, but I think hunters should be realistic in this discussion. I agree with you most hunters are looking for the classic buffalo with two nice horns and good bosses. I don’t see why hunters feel the need to add 2-5 years to every buffalo now. I also suspect many would pass on a scrum cap at full price regardless what gets said here.
 
Sure, there are certainly differences between what you dream of and the reality. However, I think it is good by hunting buffalo to prioritize age over size. That was not always the case when it came to trophies, at least not when I look back the last 50 years ago.
 
I am personally happy how the change in desired Buff has shifted in 20+ years.

I look back at older trophy photos and see the soft boss or lots of hair between the bosses. A lot of time too these young bulls when when euro mounted look even worse compared to a tight hard bosses.

And what's nice or fitting. I prefer chasing Dugga boys, and generally that comes with their age too. Getting pushed out and hanging with others likewise. I will never hunt a herd again, personally, tracking Dugga boys is the sport for me.

But I do see the moose comparison complex. And how it's hypocritical. I want to get my father on a big moose in northern BC. He's 70 this year. And of course. Bigger the better. So it is a funny paradox.

If I took him buff hunting, the hunt and how are almost weighted more then the trophy. Vs the moose trophy has some more weight to the equation
 
Adam Stevens said:
And what's nice or fitting. I prefer chasing Dugga boys, and generally that comes with their age too. Getting pushed out and hanging with others likewise. I will never hunt a herd again, personally, tracking Dugga boys is the sport for me.

But I do see the moose comparison complex. And how it's hypocritical. I want to get my father on a big moose in northern BC. He's 70 this year. And of course. Bigger the better. So it is a funny paradox.

If I took him buff hunting, the hunt and how are almost weighted more then the trophy. Vs the moose trophy has some more weight to the equation
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This is my other frustration with the age narrative. Maybe in certain areas and certain times of the year dugga boys are 100% on their own away from herds, but they do move in and out of herds. I think the age discussion is good, but I think it’s gone too far where hunters are unrealistic at times.
 
375Fox said:
This is my other frustration with the age narrative. Maybe in certain areas and certain times of the year dugga boys are 100% on their own away from herds, but they do move in and out of herds. I think the age discussion is good, but I think it’s gone too far where hunters are unrealistic at times.
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I think it's like anything in life.

Would equate it to fishermen who it has to be on a "fly" a specific way vs meat fishery or flossing

Or elk hunters, calling them in the rut in close, vs not taking one out in an open field.

Or duck hunters shooting the first 8 dark silhouettes that fly in vs being picky and choosing drakes only.

We are our own worst enemies. But most do get to stages in their life where they know what they like. Know what they want to do. And set out to do that.

Nothing wrong with any of that, it's all personal semantics at that point. Hunt how you enjoy and want too. I myself chased tracked and followed buff herds for a couple days, then slowly moved to tracking over groups of Dugga boys. I am very appreciative that Buzz "on purpose" did both. You don't know until you expierence all aspects of a hunt to know what you enjoy most.

On day 5, we finally snuck into a group of 5 dugga boys we had tracked over 3 days, and I did have my choice of a scum cap "oldest", a wide +40" with zero drop cow'esqe' and ended up we choose the one with alittle bit of everything. Good drop and hooks and bosses, no hair between bosses. A great first representative bull.
 
I spent a few days last week in Chobe National Park. I don't believe we saw a single bull that would go much over 40". But there were some truly amazing bulls that were no longer with cows that were amazing. I am not sure I would have measured any...but I surely would have pursued a few!
 
Adam Stevens said:
On day 5, we finally snuck into a group of 5 dugga boys we had tracked over 3 days, and I did have my choice of a scum cap "oldest", a wide +40" with zero drop cow'esqe' and ended up we choose the one with alittle bit of everything. Good drop and hooks and bosses, no hair between bosses. A great first representative bull.
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If those 5 dugga boys joined a herd at the end of those 3 days would you have abandoned hunting them? That’s my frustration. The age narrative seems to be pushing that dugga boys never join or rejoin herds. They do it much more frequently than hunters want to acknowledge. I’ve taken lone bulls, from dugga boy groups, and bull from a herd, but if it’s the right bull I don’t see what it matters. That lone bull could be part of a herd at a different time or different day. Focusing on dugga boy groups or lone bulls is good, but I think the age narrative is leading to some unrealistic hunting expectations.
 
375Fox said:
If those 5 dugga boys joined a herd at the end of those 3 days would you have abandoned hunting them? That’s my frustration. The age narrative seems to be pushing that dugga boys never join or rejoin herds. They do it much more frequently than hunters want to acknowledge. I’ve taken lone bulls, from dugga boy groups, and bull from a herd, but if it’s the right bull I don’t see what it matters. That lone bull could be part of a herd at a different time or different day. Focusing on dugga boy groups or lone bulls is good, but I think the age narrative is leading to some unrealistic hunting expectations.
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The reality is that very few hunters can accurately judge a bull's age in the field, especially in thick, wild country where you rarely get a perfect look. I try to target mature animals too, but that's why I rely on my PH. If he tells me it's a mature, fully developed bull, I'm comfortable taking the shot.
 
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