Heym factory regulation options

I have a 450NE on a grossbox and love it. I think Heym usually only offered the 470/500/577 in the grossbox, but could also order the 470 and 500 on a medium frame. When I first asked Chris about the specs on my rifle, which was new but preowned that Mac brokered for me, he questioned whether it was a grossbox because he couldn’t remember Heym ever making one on the big frame. I love the weight and makes it super sweet to shoot. Mac’s certainly feels sporty in comparison to mine, but for some reason Mac, I thought yours was on the smaller lightweight frame.

I have found I seem to like them all, but the 450NE is hands down my favorite and like Mac’s it shoots everything I’ve tried through it, from 420gr up through 500gr, solids, softs, raptors, all exceptionally well. I did some load developement for the 500gr NF Semi-spitzers and solids, but Mac’s loads he developed for his rifle shot superbly in mine as well. In my mind there isn’t anything that a 470 can do that my 450NE doesn’t do better, which promptly led to me releasing my 470 to be enjoyed by another.

Here are the first first few shots through my 450, with Mac’s pet 420gr Raptor load. Trying to remember, I know the first two I shot, but think the two right below cutting same hole were the pair Mac shot.

Here is short video clip.

For size comparison. Here is my rifle next to Mac’s. His has gorgeous dark wood, full engraving and case colors. But you can really see the difference in frame width and in the forearm.

Here is a Heym photo showing the Jumbo on the left then the grossbox, medium and lightweight frames. And a photo another had posted of the varying sizes, I believe as left to right, lightweight, medium, grossbox. (And now they have the jumbo gross-grossbox or whatever it’s called for the 577/600 guns)

Here is a solid size comparison of my 450 beside my 450/400, just bored one day when it was like -23 degrees and still wanted to geek out a bit on doubles. So just did some comparisons.

My 450 Grossbox is 11lb 7oz and the 450/400 is 10lb 4oz. I think it’s a medium frame, not lightweight.


And next to my 500 88b Safari frame rifle, that’s headed off to be enjoyed by an another forum brother with a case colored grossbox 89b inbound. I like big guns heavy I guess.

The 88b 500 weighs in at 11lb 4oz.

To the point of regulation, I found the 450 pretty darn easy. Here is a target when I was quickly trying to dial in a couple loads to take to Zimbabwe with the rifle, less than two weeks after getting it. I noted the top right pair with 450gr Northfork cupped solids R and L because I pulled the left shot, and was confident that was the issue vs crossing. But it shows pairs of 420gr Raptors, 480gr raptors, 450 semi-spitzers, 450gr cupped solids, 500gr semi spitzers and 480gr factory DGX and DGS. Not all that much vertical or lateral movement at 55yrds.

I did learn that my RL15 is a few grains hotter than Mac’s, and take the blame for the pair of his loads hitting right a bit, as they were hitting dead on in another pair, and just devastated a warthog and bushbuck in Zim. But if you look at my loads with the 420 CEB Raptor and 470 CEB Raptor they hit same POI. My final load with the 500gr semi spitzers tightened up at 2140fps. At 100 yards, the 500gr Semi Spitz and 450gr ones hit just slightly apart vertically, the 450gr being the higher of the two.
The 500 vs 450 at 100yrds. Just shot one of each day before I left for Zim just for elevation notes.

Aussie Chris said:

Hi guys, I'm thinking of getting my first double, likely a Heym 89b with upgraded wood but nothing much else over a base model.

The calibres I’m thinking of are the 450ne, 470ne and 500ne.

From what I can gather, Heym uses the factory ammo that’s available (probably Hornady) and then you need to keep buying that and hope they don’t change the recipe over at Hornady one day so you better buy a whole lot (not cheap).

Especially with the 450ne, it seems like it might be better to get it regulated with hand loads form the start. Then just stick with those? Perhaps I should try and get them to use a 500gr bullet instead of the 480gr? But it seems like a chicken and egg. How can I work up a hand load without the gun?

Even if I stick with the standard 480gr bullets, if the factory ammo changes or production stops will my Heym now be the same as any other double? I mean, one of the advantages seems to be that they go to greater lengths to get them regulated before they leave the Heym factory. But if the original load is no longer available then will it be equal to a Kreighoff or Merkel that also isn’t regulated? Or will it always be closer to regulation and require less work when making a new load.

I live in Australia so I’m not sure how I’d go about sending my hand loads to Germany anyway haha.

If I had the chance to shoot a 500ne then I’d probably get one but I only have my 458 Lott Ruger No.1 to go off in terms of recoil and know that a heavy 450ne will be a pleasure to shoot with the custom fitted stock I’ll be getting. So I should be pretty accurate with it - not so sure about the 500ne. Plus when I have some more grey hairs I can buy something really special in 500ne down the track when I can afford it.

I like the 470ne for mainly one reason, I think it will be faster to reload due the slight bottle necked cases. But I feel like it’s a bit of a compromise. Might as well get a 500 and doesn’t penetrate as well as the 450 anyway (if I’m not mistaken).

I welcome any suggestions or idea’s, especially from people who know what they are talking about

Thanks guys, love the forum, it’s a privilege to have access to so many minds from all around the world.

Happy new year to everyone too.

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I'm not sure what Heym can do for you as far as factory options. While no longer made, if they would regulate it with some old stock of Kynoch (Kynamco) ammo your odds of excellent handload regulation using IMR3031 and RL15 are quite high. I believe that ammo utilized RL15 or a similar pressure curve at accurate velocities.

If it were me, I would go with a 470 or 500 because bullet availability is much greater than for the 450NE. You might think 458 bullets are common and they are, but 458 bullets with the cannelueur set far back on the bullet for use in 450NE is not easy to source.

No matter what you do, just assume you're going to need custom handloads and you WANT handloads because they recoil is greatly diminished with full pressure handloads using better powder options than factory loads. A lot of factory loads use powders similar to 4831 (absolutely horrible recoil) or 4350 (still high recoiling).

If you cannot do your own handloads, you're in a bit of a pickle because the custom ammo regulators are retiring and its very hard to find someone to take the job on.

My best recommendation is buy a used heym of the correct weight that is already regulated for a custom load. You're going to save a lot of time (3 year wait?) and money over buying a new Heym, and you get certainty of the regulation of the gun by selecting a second hand one with the documentation.

Thanks guys, all very helpful responses, and some absolutely beautiful rifles there I must say, and some of those groups are very impressive!

I am a hand loader but have never owned a double so it will be interesting. I’m hearted by how much lee way there seems to be. I was under the impression that deviating from what it was regulated for would become a nightmare. But many of you have had good results, even with completely different bullet weights.

Rookhawk raises a good point about the 450ne bullets cannelure being in a different spot wich does probably nullify the advantage it has in using the popular diameter.
I guess I’ve always figured that the 470ne uses what seems like such an oddball diameter projectile that any benefit you get from it being a relatively popular cartridge is offset. But I guess you could say the same thing about the 450/400 with its .411 projectiles which is probably the most used DG double rifle ammo by sales.

Thanks again for all the thoughts and info

Solid thinking here’s a quick, straight take from someone who’s shot doubles in those calibers and dealt with regulation

Caliber pick

450 NE Best all rounder for you right now. Deep penetration 500gr solid or 480gr soft, manageable recoil especially with a fitted stock, and plenty of factory ammo Hornady, Norma, Woodleigh that’s stable and available. It’s the one most doubles are regulated for out of the box your Heym will stay close to zero even if you switch loads later.

470 NE Great cartridge, faster case slightly easier reload, but it’s a compromise less penetration than 450 on heavy bone, similar recoil to 500gr 450 loads. Skip unless you love the history or brass availability.

500 NE Beast mode, but recoil is noticeably sharper even with 570gr at lower velocity. Save it for later when you’re ready for the punch and can afford a proper big-bore double.

Regulation & handloads

Heym regulates with Hornady factory ammo usually 480gr soft for 450/470, 570gr for 500. If that load disappears changes, your double won’t suddenly become unregulated like a Kreighoff or Merkel it’ll still be closer to zero than most because Heym beds and regulates meticulously better than average factory doubles. You’ll need minor tweaks powder charge, seating depth for a new load, not a full re reg.

Handload from the start if you want control use Woodleigh 500gr solids softs or similar. Start with published data Woodleigh Swift manuals, Norma equivalents, chrono in Australia legal to handload for own use, and work up safely. No need to send loads to Germany Heym can regulate with your handloads if you provide enough 20–50 rounds when you order, or you can fine-tune after delivery.

Las3453 said:

Solid thinking here’s a quick, straight take from someone who’s shot doubles in those calibers and dealt with regulation

Caliber pick

450 NE Best all rounder for you right now. Deep penetration 500gr solid or 480gr soft, manageable recoil especially with a fitted stock, and plenty of factory ammo Hornady, Norma, Woodleigh that’s stable and available. It’s the one most doubles are regulated for out of the box your Heym will stay close to zero even if you switch loads later.

470 NE Great cartridge, faster case slightly easier reload, but it’s a compromise less penetration than 450 on heavy bone, similar recoil to 500gr 450 loads. Skip unless you love the history or brass availability.

500 NE Beast mode, but recoil is noticeably sharper even with 570gr at lower velocity. Save it for later when you’re ready for the punch and can afford a proper big-bore double.

Regulation & handloads

Heym regulates with Hornady factory ammo usually 480gr soft for 450/470, 570gr for 500. If that load disappears changes, your double won’t suddenly become unregulated like a Kreighoff or Merkel it’ll still be closer to zero than most because Heym beds and regulates meticulously better than average factory doubles. You’ll need minor tweaks powder charge, seating depth for a new load, not a full re reg.

Handload from the start if you want control use Woodleigh 500gr solids softs or similar. Start with published data Woodleigh Swift manuals, Norma equivalents, chrono in Australia legal to handload for own use, and work up safely. No need to send loads to Germany Heym can regulate with your handloads if you provide enough 20–50 rounds when you order, or you can fine-tune after delivery.

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I would be super-duper displeased if Heym regulates new 470NEs with 480gr bullets because 99.99% of lead core softs and solids for the 470NE are 500gr bullets. It would create the potential of potentially an un-regulateable gun with standard bullets.

I don’t buy the cannelure issue. I’ve successfully ran all the bullets below through 450 NE without issue. I’m out of some I have used as well, A-Frames, Woody PP’s etc.

But I will agree, I still have a 470 and the only thing I would give the nod to is finding new brass is a lot easier than the 450. After that take your pick. Both are great.

rookhawk said:

I would be super-duper displeased if Heym regulates new 470NEs with 480gr bullets because 99.99% of lead core softs and solids for the 470NE are 500gr bullets. It would create the potential of potentially an un-regulateable gun with standard bullets.

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I’m sure he meant 500gr.
I don’t think anyone even makes 480gr .474 bullets, probably would be good on a big cat though haha - bad sectional density

Las3453 said:

Solid thinking here’s a quick, straight take from someone who’s shot doubles in those calibers and dealt with regulation

Caliber pick

450 NE Best all rounder for you right now. Deep penetration 500gr solid or 480gr soft, manageable recoil especially with a fitted stock, and plenty of factory ammo Hornady, Norma, Woodleigh that’s stable and available. It’s the one most doubles are regulated for out of the box your Heym will stay close to zero even if you switch loads later.

470 NE Great cartridge, faster case slightly easier reload, but it’s a compromise less penetration than 450 on heavy bone, similar recoil to 500gr 450 loads. Skip unless you love the history or brass availability.

500 NE Beast mode, but recoil is noticeably sharper even with 570gr at lower velocity. Save it for later when you’re ready for the punch and can afford a proper big-bore double.

Regulation & handloads

Heym regulates with Hornady factory ammo usually 480gr soft for 450/470, 570gr for 500. If that load disappears changes, your double won’t suddenly become unregulated like a Kreighoff or Merkel it’ll still be closer to zero than most because Heym beds and regulates meticulously better than average factory doubles. You’ll need minor tweaks powder charge, seating depth for a new load, not a full re reg.

Handload from the start if you want control use Woodleigh 500gr solids softs or similar. Start with published data Woodleigh Swift manuals, Norma equivalents, chrono in Australia legal to handload for own use, and work up safely. No need to send loads to Germany Heym can regulate with your handloads if you provide enough 20–50 rounds when you order, or you can fine-tune after delivery.

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Thanks for your input, I really appreciate it.

Could I just double check what you meant in your last paragraph? It sounds like it’s not worth getting them to regulate it for my hand loads anyway, as I stand a very good chance of just comming up with a 500gr load myself later, even if they regulate it initially for 480’s.
But it sounded like I might be able to send them some rounds to use. I might be mis reading what you said and I’ll probably just get them to do what they normally do. It was more out of curiosity.

Thanks again, I really appreciate being able to tap into the knowledge of people like yourself who have the real word experience that I don’t have yet.

Heym uses Hornady Dangerous Game Series ammunition to regulate all double rifles up to .500 Nitro Express.

They use LFB (Labor Fur Ballistik) ammunition (which employs Australian Bertram Brass cases) for regulating their .577 Nitro Express and .600 Nitro Express rifles.

Aussie Chris said:

I’m sure he meant 500gr.
I don’t think anyone even makes 480gr .474 bullets, probably would be good on a big cat though haha - bad sectional density

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I’m going to tag @doctari505 in this discussion since I really appreciate his participation in the forums from time to time, and the gent has seen a thing or two when it comes to effectiveness of big game cartridges on African animals. He has done a number if episodes on the “Big Game Hunting Podcast” related to hunting different specific African dangerous and big game, and also cartridges and rifles for same. In more than one episode he referenced a friend that worked for the parks (can’t recall if in Zimbabwe or RSA…thinking possibly Kruger) tasked with dealing with problem/human conflict animals…elephants. His friend ran a Heym 88b in 450NE, shooting what…yeppers, you guessed it…500gr solids (Northfork if my aging brain recalls correctly). He brought this same friend and rifle/cartridge combination up more than a couple times because of the impressive performance and penetration he consistently achieved on elephants…with reference to shots hip to brisket.

He is also very mindful of sectional density…which the 450NE has in spades. In one of the episodes Mr. Robertson was also discussing the 470NE, which was discussed in high regards as a client option rifle as well, but NOT favored for front brain shots on elephant due to the lack of sectional density and significant mass required to penetrate on those shots. Saw it as more than adequate for all other purposes. I have no idea what kind of podcasts are available in Australia, but if similar to here, I’d recommend listening to the episodes with Kevin Robertson and of course his books are wonderful resources.

As it relates to concerns on cannelure placement in .458 bullets, Mac hit it on the head, which he usually does. We had the same discussion as I was assembling components to load for my 450 and I was leaning heavily towards 500gr bullets where possible, in part based on opinions of Mr. Robertson. Seemed to make sense and I at least wanted to see how the gun performed with heavier bullets. Mac mentioned that some, like A-frame and some Woodleigh may have the cannulure on 500’s set specifically for the 458 Win Mag, which I was leaning toward Northfork and Cutting Edge Bullets, and the driving bands were all in the same places between the 420, 450, 470, 480 and 500’s. And the heavies shot splendidly, so I’m not looking back.

For concerns as to components, with you in Australia, you should have little difficulty. Bertram makes 450NE brass, and is what I’m shooting mostly in mine, which so far I’m super happy with. Woodleigh will have options for softs, solids, and their hydros…granted all in 480gr. Not sure what they’ll have in 500gr for you, but Northfork and CEB has great options.

End of the day, Mac Jenkins and Micheal Fell love the Heym 450NE, that’s all I need to know. Kidding aside, any of the cartridges discussed above will prove wonderful for any dangerous game in a quality rifle, held in practiced hands. Find what speaks to you and lean into it. And I will say if Mac references something about reloading, I try to listen. The man knows his stuff when it comes to precision reloading and properly running a double. He has a reloading room set up like a professional chef’s kitchen, because he is passionate about it and has been for years. I’ve reloaded for bench rest and F-class rifles and handguns and hunting cartridges for over 30-years, and I learned a lot from discussions with Mac when it comes to these doubles, and personally feel it’s largely why my 450NE was such a super easy gun to dial in…I just copied Mac’s lead and tweaked a bit for a couple heavier options.

Good luck, and expect you have a lot of fun ahead of you.

rookhawk said:

I would be super-duper displeased if Heym regulates new 470NEs with 480gr bullets because 99.99% of lead core softs and solids for the 470NE are 500gr bullets. It would create the potential of potentially an un-regulateable gun with standard bullets.

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It's a non-issue. They shoot just fine with 500-grain bullets and a bit of load tweaking. My rifle shoots lights-out with 480's but I've shot enough 500-grainers out of it as well. If I had to shoot 500-grain bullets in future, no problem.

JvW said:

It's a non-issue. They shoot just fine with 500-grain bullets and a bit of load tweaking. My rifle shoots lights-out with 480's but I've shot enough 500-grainers out of it as well. If I had to shoot 500-grain bullets in future, no problem.

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Exactly this.

Wildwillalaska said:

I have no idea what kind of podcasts are available in Australia, but if similar to here, I’d recommend listening to the episodes with Kevin Robertson and of course his books are wonderful resources.

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I listen to The Big Game Hunting Podcast all the time! When it’s an episode about Africa it’s my favourite podcast. I especially like the episodes with Kevin Robertson and I bought his “the perfect shot 2” book because of the podcast. He certainly is a knowledgeable person and has got some interesting stories.
Actually one of the more recent episodes (episode 404) was about the 404 Jeffery with Phil Massaro as the guest. He said he shot a huge elephant with two shoulder shots using 400gr Woodleigh Hydro’s that both passed through and completely exited with his 404. I find that impressive since it is a .423 diameters projectile.