Politics


While that’s plausible… that’s not a very probable scenario to play out..

If he was wearing armor under his t-shirt, it would have been soft armor designed to stop pistol rounds… or soft stab resistant armor… he definitely wasn’t wearing plates designed to stop center fire rifle rounds… there’s no hiding rifle plates under a t-shirt..

And soft armor isn’t going to cause a ricochet of any kind…

To be truthful, with well designed plates would be super hard to create an upward ricochet from a downward shot, even if you clipped the edge of the plate… it would be a 1:1000000 type scenario..

A little bit (very small amount) of splatter? Maybe…

But a ricochet… highly improbable.. almost to the point of impossible…
 
Wondering what kind of vest he was wearing. lvl 3 and 4 are kinda hard to wear under a dress shirt. I wore IIA as a patrolman, and if he was wearing just plain kevlar IIA like I did, I don't see any way it could have occurred as this tweet suggests. A 30 cal bullet at 2500-ish fps would have gone right through the kevlar like it wasn't even there.
He was in a T-shirt. It is theoretically possible a military style ceramic plate could cause a ricochet, but it would be rather obvious in that clothing. Any soft vest isn't going to impress a 7.62 very much.
 
While that’s plausible… that’s not a very probable scenario to play out..

If he was wearing armor under his t-shirt, it would have been soft armor designed to stop pistol rounds… or soft stab resistant armor… he definitely wasn’t wearing plates designed to stop center fire rifle rounds… there’s no hiding rifle plates under a t-shirt..

And soft armor isn’t going to cause a ricochet of any kind…

To be truthful, with well designed plates would be super hard to create an upward ricochet from a downward shot, even if you clipped the edge of the plate… it would be a 1:1000000 type scenario..

A little bit (very small amount) of splatter? Maybe…

But a ricochet… highly improbable.. almost to the point of impossible…
Like you said.
 
While that’s plausible… that’s not a very probable scenario to play out..

If he was wearing armor under his t-shirt, it would have been soft armor designed to stop pistol rounds… or soft stab resistant armor… he definitely wasn’t wearing plates designed to stop center fire rifle rounds… there’s no hiding rifle plates under a t-shirt..

And soft armor isn’t going to cause a ricochet of any kind…

To be truthful, with well designed plates would be super hard to create an upward ricochet from a downward shot, even if you clipped the edge of the plate… it would be a 1:1000000 type scenario..

A little bit (very small amount) of splatter? Maybe…

But a ricochet… highly improbable.. almost to the point of impossible…

A Steel plate could maybe cause something like an upward ricochet, or produce spall that could do what was seen on the footage.

According to this BBC article FBI hasn't commented on whether he was wearing a vest.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c5yev470d59o


If he was, like @Red Leg said it was probably a stab vest or soft armor.
 
I don't know. Its just something i saw on social media. I have no idea if its valid or not?
Humm I saw the video it was sent to me no warning which sucks ( having seen hits first hand ) any way that did not look like a ricochet .
Any o6 load should go through a soft vest

Unless maybe a rem accelerator ( 22 in a sabot)
Maybe a hard plat and a spalling but that not what it looked like to me

Idk like all ways there will be a lot of speculation and questions
 
He was in a T-shirt. It is theoretically possible a military style ceramic plate could cause a ricochet, but it would be rather obvious in that clothing. Any soft vest isn't going to impress a 7.62 very much.
The other issue is with a potential deflection. I'm not sure how a bullet fired from an elevated position defects up.
 
Humm I saw the video it was sent to me no warning which sucks ( having seen hits first hand ) any way that did not look like a ricochet .
Any o6 load should go through a soft vest

Unless maybe a rem accelerator ( 22 in a sabot)
Maybe a hard plat and a spalling but that not what it looked like to me

Idk like all ways there will be a lot of speculation and questions
As i said, I don't know. I was just posting a social media statement from someone close to the Charlie Kirk camp
Some people on this thread have a propensity for trying to shoot the messenger.
I'm not an expert on ballistic protection, and dont know anything about the travel of the bullet.
The only way we will know for sure, is if the FBI releases an accurate and detailed report.
I wont hold my breath on that happening.
 
As i said, I don't know. I was just posting a social media statement from someone close to the Charlie Kirk camp
Some people on this thread have a propensity for trying to shoot the messenger.
I'm not an expert on ballistic protection, and dont know anything about the travel of the bullet.
The only way we will know for sure, is if the FBI releases an accurate and detailed report.
I wont hold my breath on that happening.
Not trying to shoot the messenger.
I just high light you post so any one would understand what I was talking about.
 
The shooter was more than likely attempting a head shot with a rifle sighted at 100 yards, and bullet drop resulted in an unintentional neck shot.
This was my immediate first thought when I started thinking about the ballistics. The sound of the shot was also interesting (didn’t seem very loud and rather high pitched) so I plan on doing some testing with microphones with various cartridges from 200 meters away shooting in the general direction of the microphone to see what sounds the closest. For no other reason than my own curiosity. My bet is 223/5.56 with 38-55 grain bullets. Something that starts off fast but slows down fast for the high pitched crack but around 4-7 inches of drop at 200. The possibility of trigger jerking the POI up or down must also be considered, especially if it was done by an amateur.
 
While that’s plausible… that’s not a very probable scenario to play out..

If he was wearing armor under his t-shirt, it would have been soft armor designed to stop pistol rounds… or soft stab resistant armor… he definitely wasn’t wearing plates designed to stop center fire rifle rounds… there’s no hiding rifle plates under a t-shirt..

And soft armor isn’t going to cause a ricochet of any kind…

To be truthful, with well designed plates would be super hard to create an upward ricochet from a downward shot, even if you clipped the edge of the plate… it would be a 1:1000000 type scenario..

A little bit (very small amount) of splatter? Maybe…

But a ricochet… highly improbable.. almost to the point of impossible…

So the video I had sent to me was a close up video, maybe from the 2nd or 3rd row, and I thought there was no way this is plausible so I went back and looked. It does appear he was wearing a vest.

It also appears the bullet did hit in the neckline of the shirt before hitting his exposed neck, it is a split second.

Really unbelievable.

But like you said I would have said impossible that happen, but it do think this might actually have been what happen.
 
. The sound of the shot was also interesting My bet is 223/5.56 with 38-55 grain bullets. Something that starts off fast but slows down fast for the high pitched crack
I'm not familiar with the sound of the 5.56 going over my head but the 7.62x51 was a "snap". The 7.62x39 was a "pop".
 
So the video I had sent to me was a close up video, maybe from the 2nd or 3rd row, and I thought there was no way this is plausible so I went back and looked. It does appear he was wearing a vest.

It also appears the bullet did hit in the neckline of the shirt before hitting his exposed neck, it is a split second.

Really unbelievable.

But like you said I would have said impossible that happen, but it do think this might actually have been what happen.
Some times bullets do or don’t do amazing things that would seem impossible
 
U.S Naval academy in Annapolis on lockdown with an active shooter and possible casualties.
The rumor mill says its a midshipman who was kicked out that returned with a gun and opened fire.

Good God, what the hell is going on in this world?
Fortunately this seems to have been a false alarm. Seems everyone is on edge right now.

 
I'm not familiar with the sound of the 5.56 going over my head but the 7.62x51 was a "snap". The 7.62x39 was a "pop".
Exactly, it would be interesting to find the sound that matches closest. Changing bullet weights and tip shape and ogive all change how the pressure wave comes off of the bullet, and therefor changed the sound. It would be interesting to see if they catch him if the gun he used would make any sense whatsoever based on the sound profile matching. Barrel length matters a little too, both for muzzle report as well as slight changes in velocity, but mostly the muzzle report. It’s gonna be a few days to a week but when I find something that matches the sound I’ll report back, or if it doesn’t match anything common. I’ll be testing 308, 223 first, as well as a handful of bullet weights in each. It’s a good excuse to get out and shoot lol, I’ve got the next 2 weeks off of work to mess around, but I do have a limited budget, so might not get to everything I want to.
 
Not necessarily..

Kirk is a private citizen.. he isnt POTUS, or a governor, or even a major metro area mayor..

His estimated net worth at the time of his death was +/- $12M.

Do you have any idea what a professional protective detail costs?

My budget when I ran the PPU at the World Bank was just north of $4M annually.. and we were under manned, under equipped, etc for the mission set we were expected to perfom.. and that was 20 years ago.. that same detail today would easily cost $7M+ a year minimum..

There are only so many potential threats that can be addressed.. Assume Kirks personal security team was 4 guys (which would be pretty heavy for someone of his prominence, exposure, etc... most celebrities, entertainers, senior executives in the fortune 50, etc roll with 1-2 people MAX plus a trained driver).. they then get augmented by the University Police Department, who ARE NOT trained in protective services, but generally handle crowd control and petty crimes issues related to any event on the university campus..

The most obvious and most prevailing threat to Kirk almost certainly was physical attacks onstage or when inbound or outbound to/from the stage.. with a limited security apparatus, you prioritize threats and address what you can with what youve got.. if there was a KNOWN threat of assassination, it is highly unlikely Kirk would have been at the event at all, or there would have been a major plus up of University and local municipal police requested to help mitigate that threat..

In the private security world when threats like that become known the most common threat mitigation technique is simple avoidance... you just dont go "there" or do "whatever" it is you were scheduled to do..

While at the WB I also had something called the "Watch Office".. the budget for our watch office was close to $12M a year.. it was staffed with a significant number of former CIA, DIA, NSA, etc personnel... their job was to monitor global information sources and to conduct analysis of that information to help us understand the threats to WB leaders we were charged with protecting..

They did a good job of detecting things in advance for us.. like at one point we knew the "activist" that had "pied" Bill Gates and others was planning to do the same thing with our protectee.. we were able to coordinate with local law enforcement (we were doing a series of events in Europe at the time) and have them detain the guy when he entered the controlled area of the event..

99.99999% of the protective details in the private sector dont have access to a "Watch Office".. they dont truly know what active threats are out there.. sometimes if a federal agency like the FBI becomes aware of a threat, they will contact the security team and let them know and share information... but far more often than not, they dont....

Its a pretty safe bet that Kirks security people were doing the best possible job they could with the very limited resources and assets they had available to them.. and that the University PD was in the same boat.. you cant possibly mitigate or avoid every conceivable threat out there.. the only way to do that is to lock the protectee in a lead lined basement 20 stories underground and never let them come out to see or be seen.. They simply dont have the same kind of resources that even a major metro area mayor has (like Chicago's Barry Johnson who has 150 personnel assigned to his protection... or back when I was doing that sort of work, the Memphis, TN Mayor had 18 personnel assigned to his protective detail (no clue how many are assigned today).. and they definitely dont have the same level of resources or assets of a major state governor, or a POTUS, VPOTUS, or even a FLOTUS..

I wouldnt be so quick to blame the security people here..
Seems like Security 101 after Butler, PA would be a drone to check rooftops??? Pretty lame that they didn’t if you ask me.
 

Possibly a Titanium plate with a beveled edge.

Good slow motion footage, but hard to watch if you have a sensitive stomach.
This seems to makes sense. A direct hit from a .30-06 would likely have exited and I didn’t see an exit wound. His shirt also looks to have moved and has a spot on it that could be the initial impact.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
63,595
Messages
1,399,406
Members
125,376
Latest member
RachelleRu
 

 

 

Latest profile posts

Screenshot 2025-10-09 at 7.53.47 AM.png
A two minute video I made of our recent Safari. I think it turned out well
Speedster wrote on Sue Tidwell's profile.
Just received your book. It will be a Christmas present from my wife. Looking forward to read it.
ftothfadd wrote on EuroOptic's profile.
Jake, Sorry to bug you again. I was wondering if you could share a. couple actual pics of this crossbow with me?

Xpedition Archery USED Scrapeline390X Sniper Gray Crossbow XACW1001 - Light Wear - Needs Bolt/Arrow Guide Spring UA5689​

If it is in a decent shape, would you be willing to sell it for $100 shipped? IS it missing the retention spring that goes over the bolt?
Thank you Ferenc
Hie guys. Where can a 16 year old get a job at a hunting outfitter whilst the boy studies for lph . If anyone has anything WhatsApp me on [redacted]
Montana Gun Man wrote on John P.'s profile.
Good morning John, I just read your setup procedure for the northstar duplicator ator. I found it very hand and I did learn some things. I have the same machine and I am having a problem i can not figure out and was hoping you could shed some light on the subject.
 
Top