Game ranch vs. open land prices

Torqued

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I am looking into fair chase hunt prices for plains game so that I can better prepare for how much it will cost me in the future, but I am having difficulty. As I have been starting to investigate prices more thoroughly it seems that there are a lot listings that are for game ranches with high fences and not so much for fair chase. It also appears that the prices for a fair chase hunt is considerably more costly. It also appears that it is not clearly labeled as to what type of hunt you are getting in a lot of the listings. The other part is finding out the size of the concession the PH guides on. How does a person figure all of this out without spending months on the phone contacting every PH out there? I have never been on a guided hunt this is all new to me.
Thanks in advance.
 
Good questions, however I do want to clear up the fair chase first. Many of these ranches although high fenced are 10s of thousands of acres, they are fair chase. I believe what you are referring to is low fence hunting, I can help you with that.

The price for low fence in South Africa, Zimbabwe, or Namibia is the same as high fence. True wilderness hunts in wild Africa are, as you say, quite expensive. In fact they are often 2-5 times as much or more.

There are low fence hunts to be had for a wide array of species, I have tried to pursue as many as possible this way but have taken some animals on large high fence operations as well.

Give Chris Troskie (CT-Safaris) an email. He has taken me 2x and primarily hunted low fence (at my request), I will be back with him in the future for more low fence as well as high fence hunts. Im sure he can help you out.

African Hunting Outfitter of distinction offering safaris in South Africa, Botswana, Zimbabwe and Mozambique - www.ct-safaris.com

There are many great hunting reports on AH about hunts with him, check them out as well.
 
Very little low fence quality hunting left . We have some too but you do not always get the quality and numbers are much thinner . This is hard hunting on foot most all day long ! I just need to add that there is a big misconception about high fence ! As said some of the areas are thousand s and 10's of thousands of acres . There are top record trophies taken on these properties that nobody might have even seen before . The low fence on foot is way nice challenging hunt though but you will have limited species available ...... I might have to back up on that one . With all the floods this last week we might have crocs and hippos in our backyard soon ......

Happy hunting !
 
Just a few low fence critters that I have hunted with him. I have probably missed something.
Cape Springbok
East Cape Kudu
Southern Greater Kudu
Mountain Reedbuck
Vaal Rhebok
Steinbok
Gray Duiker
Warthog
Blue Wildebeest
Red Hartebeest
Impala
Caracal
Nyala
Blesbok
Limpopo Bushbuck
Baboon
Bushpig (you cant actually keep Bushpigs or Warthog in anyway)

While I was not successful on all of them I had opportunity on mature males of all species. Easy opportunities on all but Caracal and Gray Duiker.

On my next hunt with Chris I will pursue the following free range.
Blue Duiker
Cape Grysbok
Cape Bushbuck
Klipspringer
and we will see what else is available in the same area when I book.
 
This is hard hunting on foot most all day long!

:thumb:

Very little low fence quality hunting left . We have some too but you do not always get the quality and numbers are much thinner.

Several of my low fence animals have been R&W trophies, in fact I missed a long shot at an east cape kudu that would have gone waaaaay up in the books, at least 56" was the estimate. They are there but as you say on average the size is a bit smaller and yes you definitely are limited to fewer species, which is why I would recommend adding in some high fence as well if you have specific game that you would like that I not native.

I just need to add that there is a big misconception about high fence ! As said some of the areas are thousand s and 10's of thousands of acres . There are top record trophies taken on these properties that nobody might have even seen before .

The biggest difference I see is not behavior, high fence game in many occasions may be wilier than low fence in fact. The density is certainly the big factor. If you have higher densities of wily animals, you are bound to have higher success than lower densities of more docile animals, it has nothing to do with being unable to evade hunters at all.

You wont find me badmouthing either hunting type. If I can look around and see all the fences though... that would be different.
 
To me fair chase has nothing to do with low or high fence.
It is the hunting method used and if the lay of the land or fences affects the animals ability to avoid the hunter that matters.

Clearly a small high fenced enclosure has nothing to do with fair chase, but on many of the large high fence properties in South Africa where all the game has been born and grown up on the property, it is totally fair chase in my opinion.
That said, there are much low fence hunting available, both in South Africa and Namibia if low fence is important to you.

Start a thread in the Hunts OFFERED or WANTED Worldwide and stipulate what sort of hunt you want and ask outfitters to PM you what they can offer you and take it from there.
 
Start a thread in the Hunts OFFERED or WANTED Worldwide and stipulate what sort of hunt you want and ask outfitters to PM you what they can offer you and take it from there.

:confused: Not sure why I didn't think of that. LOL Definitely a great way to start.
 
I am looking into fair chase hunt prices for plains game ............... it seems that there are a lot listings that are for game ranches with high fences and not so much for fair chase. .


This is a false dichotomy.
The assumption that low fence equates with fair chase is ludicrous.
Here is some information for you to consider.


An AFRICAN record books requirements.

Rowland Ward
That all hunting be conducted only during the hours of natural light.

That no creature be hunted for sport in an enclosed area of such size that such creature is not self-sufficient. Self-sufficiency includes the ability of the animal to exercise its natural inclination to escape from the hunter as well as catering for all its basic needs such as water, food, shelter and breeding.

That no shooting take place from, or within a short distance of a vehicle, nor the use of vehicles to drive game.

That no shooting take place from, or within a short distance of an aircraft.

That no aircraft be used to spot or drive game, nor the use of aircraft to land hunters within a short distance of game for the purpose of hunting the game so spotted.

That only hunting weapons of such power and calibre that are capable of killing game quickly and efficiently at practical ranges be employed.


SCI
The North American Hunting Preserves - Fair Chase Standards

May 2006
Recreational hunting and the concept of fair chase has been linked for as long as recreational hunting has existed. However, the terms and conditions of what constitutes fair chase when hunting is conducted within a high fenced area has never been fully or clearly defined.
SCI believes that the following conditions must be met, or exceeded, in order for the concept of fair chase to apply for hunting mammals within high fenced areas in North America:
The animals hunted must have freely resided on the property on which they are being hunted for at least six months, or longer.
The hunting property shall provide escape cover that allows the animals to elude hunters for extended periods of time and multiple occurrences. Escape cover, in the form of rugged terrain or topography, and/or dense thickets or stands of woods, shall collectively comprise at least 50% of the property.
The animals hunted must be part of a breeding herd that is a resident on the hunted property.
The operators of the preserve must provide freely available and ample amounts of cover, food and water at all times.
Animals that are to be hunted must exhibit their natural flight/survival instincts.
No zoo animals, exhibited animals or tame animals are to be hunted.
No hunting or selling of hunting rights to a specified animal.
Hunting methods employed cannot include driving, herding or chasing animals to awaiting hunters.
Every effort must be made to utilize all meat commonly consumed from a taken animal.
The minimum amount of land necessary to meet these requirements varies by region, terrain and habitat type. Setting a standard minimum area is unlikely to be realistic. However, SCI recommends that state/provincial wildlife management agencies work with the operators and the hunting community within their area to establish specific regulations to guide the operation of hunting preserves.

B&C
FAIR CHASE STATEMENT
FAIR CHASE, as defined by the Boone and Crockett Club, is the ethical, sportsmanlike, and lawful pursuit and taking of any free-ranging wild, native North American big game animal in a manner that does not give the hunter an improper advantage over such animals.



Further debate in another thread here on AH.

http://www.africahunting.com/hunting-africa/8975-fair-chase-hunts-south-africa.html


FAIR CHASE

"Fundamental to ethical hunting is the idea of fair chase. This
concept addresses the balance between the hunter and the
hunted. It is a balance that allows hunters to occasionally
succeed while animals generally avoid being taken." [p.57]

"There are some activities that are clearly unfair as well as
unethical. At the top of the list is shooting captive or
domesticated big game animals in commercial killing areas where a
person with a gun is guaranteed an animal to shoot. .....
When discussing the ethic of fair chase, it is important
to clarify that we are talking about hunting free-ranging wild
animals." [p.59]

"Shooting preserves present....difficult ethical decisions.
Ethical judgment has to be tempered
by the realities of the people who use these places and the
opportunities available to them.

Shooting preserves protect isolated habitat that otherwise might be destroyed or developed;
they provide habitat for other wildlife species; they provide
opportunities for training dogs; novices can be introduced to
bird shooting; and veteran hunters can maintain shooting
skill. [p.60]

--------------
Jim Posewitz. 1994. "Beyond Fair Chase: The Ethic and Tradition
of Hunting". Falcon Press. Helena, Montana. ISBN 1-56044-283-2
 
Regardless of what one feels about game ranches, there's no denying the positive impact these enterprises have had on preserving game animals. Others can probably quote with authority the increase in game animals in RSA due to traditional ranching operations being converted to game ranches. These have also been the salvation of animals such as the Scimitar Oryx, Dama Gazelle and Addax (game ranches in the US). I maintain a healthy population of blackbuck antelope, and there are probably more blackbuck in the hill county of Texas than in their native country of India.

The ever-expanding human population, coupled with governments like the one in Botswana who cave to the anti-hunting community despite the proven benefits of regulated hunting, continually reduce the hunting opportunities in Africa (and around the world for that matter).

As a hunting community we better quit squabbling about "high fence vs low fence" and embrace the game ranching effort. It may prove to be the last stronghold for both hunter and game ....
 
I agree with you Shakey!

The greatest limits are limits we set in our own minds. Look more at how the hunting is conducted. If you want to work hard for your animals plenty of PHs will let you earn your animals. Remember those animals are wired to escape predators.
 
I think I may have inadvertently pirated this thread and sent it spiralling out of control. Sorry Torqued.

Here is Torqueds original post.

I am looking into fair chase hunt prices for plains game so that I can better prepare for how much it will cost me in the future, but I am having difficulty. As I have been starting to investigate prices more thoroughly it seems that there are a lot listings that are for game ranches with high fences and not so much for fair chase. It also appears that the prices for a fair chase hunt is considerably more costly. It also appears that it is not clearly labeled as to what type of hunt you are getting in a lot of the listings. The other part is finding out the size of the concession the PH guides on. How does a person figure all of this out without spending months on the phone contacting every PH out there? I have never been on a guided hunt this is all new to me.
Thanks in advance.
 
Thank you for the replies. For me the fair chase part is a personal thing and not about technicalities. Low fence is fine by me so long as it does not hinder the movement of animals to and from the properties. I have worked on ranches of 100000 plus acres and the game animals where not always on the ranch. I like the aspect of not knowing what a person might find.
 
I guess the best question to add is what animals are you looking to hunt? How big of an area do you want to hunt? Just remember certain animals like certain habitat. You won't find bushbuck or nyala in the deserts of Namibia. And 10000 acres is really huge if it's thick brush.
 
Torqued,
You opened a can of worms. The Kwazulu Natal area has lots of low fence hunting. I hunted it August of 2012. Lots of quality Nyala.

Don't threat over high fence, you may not see the fence the whole hunt other then going through the gate.

"A dream can be relived, again and again in Africa".
 
Be aware of legalities as far as hunting season, open and closed season on certain species also vary from year to year...

Good luck, the low fence, free range, note not free roaming pg hunts in SA are IMO a technicality in it self...

I'll tell you why....

Let say for argument sake I am hunting a 15 000 acre low fence area this is the regarded as fair chase (am I correct?)

The rancher next door has another 6000 acres low fence on 2 sides,....other two are high fence neighboring properties,...and so on and so on... Sooner or later there is a game fence which in itself limits movement eventually.....

It's all technical... All word play...

I would recommend Namibia, by going on your interpretation of fair chase... As there you'll find 100 000 - 200 000 acre low fenced areas.... With high fenced neighboring properties as well...

I do understand what you would like from your safari, but with never having been in Africa I believe that after your first trip you will fully comprehend...

I wish you luck in your ventures and I am sure that you will eventually find what you are looking for.

For one you have definitely come to the right place... Try Chris Troskie he is a top shelf outfitter.

My best always.
 
Be aware of legalities as far as hunting season, open and closed season on certain species also vary from year to year...

Good luck, the low fence, free range, note not free roaming pg hunts in SA are IMO a technicality in it self...

I'll tell you why....

Let say for argument sake I am hunting a 15 000 acre low fence area this is the regarded as fair chase (am I correct?)

The rancher next door has another 6000 acres low fence on 2 sides,....other two are high fence neighboring properties,...and so on and so on... Sooner or later there is a game fence which in itself limits movement eventually.....

It's all technical... All word play...

I would recommend Namibia, by going on your interpretation of fair chase... As there you'll find 100 000 - 200 000 acre low fenced areas.... With high fenced neighboring properties as well...

I do understand what you would like from your safari, but with never having been in Africa I believe that after your first trip you will fully comprehend...

I wish you luck in your ventures and I am sure that you will eventually find what you are looking for.

For one you have definitely come to the right place... Try Chris Troskie he is a top shelf outfitter.

My best always.

Gentlemen , allow me to drop in my 2 cents worth. A high fenced hunt on 10 000 acres is a good hunt. period. But its not free roaming. The animals are free ranging within the high fenced area. So is a Buffalo on a 800 acre ranch....These terms are being used freely on forums and must be utterly confusing to hunters.
Likewise a low fenced hunt does not guarantee free roaming animals. certain species of game can be contained by a low fence.
 
Jan... Very true,...... I hear what you are saying, I do not believe that those phrases are thrown around loosely on AH though........

My interpretation of the pre mentioned phrases would be.

Free range = low fence...

Free roaming = No fence....

Any game on a fenced area are fenced...

As above these phrases were clearly specified by what it implies.

I fully agree that a fenced area hunt on and area of 10 000 acres can be extremely tough... I also agree with Brickburn that... Implying that a high fenced hunt could not be fair chase or regarded as... Is uninformed or just not a reality..

Have a look at the original post I believe that would put pretty much all replies in perspective.

My very best always.
 
I myself think most places in SA end with a fence somewhere be it the owners ranch you maybe on or his neighbor.To me what make the difference is the cover on the place for the animal to use to hide.A 2000 acre place in the limpo,natal could be much harder to hunt then a 10,000 acre area in the free state or northern cape. To me what is more a value to know is if the place is stocked yearly or has a breeding group of animals I want to hunt.I would like a place that the animals breed and grow up on the land to be hunted.I want to see more females then males on a hunt as that is the way nature wanted it.That is more important then how big a place might be to me.Think of a animal that has lived on a place to the age class must would shoot.He may have 6 to 10 years living there and know ever inch of that 5000 acre ranch.Then think of maybe a 20,000 acre ranch but the animals were just stocked on it in march for hunting in april and on.Which will be the harder hunt to do.Animals that grew up on a place feed and drink at places a stocked animal may not find for years on the same ranch.Also there is difference of someone stocking a place to improve a herd or grow there herd quality then just put to shoot off that season also.I guess what my point is animals that grow up on a ranch with cover that is big enough for them to live on is fair chase to me.
 
To me fair chase has nothing to do with low or high fence.
It is the hunting method used and if the lay of the land or fences affects the animals ability to avoid the hunter that matters.

Clearly a small high fenced enclosure has nothing to do with fair chase, but on many of the large high fence properties in South Africa where all the game has been born and grown up on the property, it is totally fair chase in my opinion.
That said, there are much low fence hunting available, both in South Africa and Namibia if low fence is important to you.

Start a thread in the Hunts OFFERED or WANTED Worldwide and stipulate what sort of hunt you want and ask outfitters to PM you what they can offer you and take it from there.

Fuly agree on this.
 
As a person who has been to Africa only once, let me throw my two cents in.

I completely understand Torqued's concerns and really had the same before I left.

One of the first things I did was go to map of the area I hunt here in the states and then draw somewhat of a line around the areas that I actually hunt. I then determined acreage. Though I had access to millions of acres (literally), I really only hunted on about 1,800. That total was more than enough for me to hunt on foot every day for a deer season. For elk it would be much larger.

In South Africa, I hunted on a total of three different ranches, all behind high fence. The first two ranches were of approximately 2,000 acres each, while the third was much larger of unknown size. The two smaller ranches had deep ravines and heavy brush throughout. The 2,000 acres "felt" much larger than it actually was. I am sure that some of the game movement was influenced by the fences but certainly not all of it was.

The topic of game movement came up with my PH (member here). He told me that the kudu will clear the fences from time to time. The warthogs are continually burrowing holes under the wire and are not influenced in any way. I personally watched a beautiful bushbuck go under the wires as it travelled its daily route. The duiker apparently does the same. I heard further stories of other animals such as an eland going over the top!

I think as you go about your search, you may wish to ask your PH some questions such as how large is your area? How much is fenced? Is it cross-fenced? What is the ranch like? A ranch that is flat with no cover is certainly going to be much different than one that is hilly with heavy brush! If it is low-fenced, you know that most critters are going to go over or through on a daily basis much like all of our deer species do.

I came away with a much different opinion of fenced operations than what I had before I went. I think you need to set in your mind what a reasonable size is and go from there. Further, you will need to ask the questions AND THEN talk to references that have hunted the property!

I hope this helped your understanding.
 

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