Would you give up a 100 pounder if asked to?

[John Telford]

If a country that allows hunting of elephants had to declare all big tusked and iconic bulls (those that are often seen by the photographic safaris and often named) “royal game” and thus frown upon the shooting of these or limit the trophy to say 80 pounds. Would you as a hunter rather not hunt in that country or would you not mind? Let’s forget the argument about the bull being past it’s breeding age, that it’s teeth are worn down and it’s starving to death etc for now.
The question is would you prefer to say that you turned down a 100 pounder for the “smaller” 80 pounder in the group of bulls for the sake of keeping all interest groups happy or would you say “screw it I paid the permit I’m taking the old guy”?
I ask this in light of the fact that governments are making moves to ban import of trophies so what’s the use of shooting the old guy if the experience of hunting the smaller bull is exactly the same all this being equal?
Has the time come for us as hunters to say we would prefer to see the 100 pounders roaming the plains of Africa not withstanding that they are at risk of being poached or dying from starvation. Basically hunters would now become the guardians of the 100 pounders instead of the pursuers.

 

[CBH Australia]

I think if I were a trophy hunter and shelled out for an Elephant I would want the best I could unless I had set out to hunt a specific animal for the thrill of the chase or a unique trophy
You don't take second best if the better trophy can be achieved in the same situation.

 

[PeteG]

If a country that allows hunting of elephants had to declare all big tusked and iconic bulls (those that are often seen by the photographic safaris and often named) “royal game” and thus frown upon the shooting of these or limit the trophy to say 80 pounds. Would you as a hunter rather not hunt in that country or would you not mind? Let’s forget the argument about the bull being past it’s breeding age, that it’s teeth are worn down and it’s starving to death etc for now.
The question is would you prefer to say that you turned down a 100 pounder for the “smaller” 80 pounder in the group of bulls for the sake of keeping all interest groups happy or would you say “screw it I paid the permit I’m taking the old guy”?
I ask this in light of the fact that governments are making moves to ban import of trophies so what’s the use of shooting the old guy if the experience of hunting the smaller bull is exactly the same all this being equal?
Has the time come for us as hunters to say we would prefer to see the 100 pounders roaming the plains of Africa not withstanding that they are at risk of being poached or dying from starvation. Basically hunters would now become the guardians of the 100 pounders instead of the pursuers.

Unfortunately i think that it is a moot argument because as soon as the 100 pounders are protected, they will want the 80 pounders protected and so on and so forth. Give an inch, take a mile type of scenario.

The idea about keeping all parties "happy" is worth considering, except it is the hunting fraternity who must budge to keep others happy about a topic that may or may not necessarily be productive to the species.

Personally i would have a hard time telling my client to not shoot a specific animal that may be on the end of possibly miles of arduous tracking because its "too big and too old".


Perhaps the photo tourism crowd should be educated more on the fact that there is room for both consumptive and non consumptive in the wildilfe areas and with that accept that a large portion of the land protected could be due to the hunter who has paid good money for the large 100pounder is what is allowing many many more to roam in safe grounds.

Provided, and this is where the problem is, the hunting organization is actually doing something positive for preserving wildlife and land. not simply paying fees to government etc, that is not enough anymore. there actually needs to be more proactive preservation of wildlilfe and land.

 

[shotgungibbs]

Of course, I would rather take the 100 pounders! But I hunt for the enjoyment of being on the trip, the excitement of the hunt, meeting new people, not just the killing of a trophy. I would absolutely be thrilled with an 80 pounder! We've all let game pass that could have easily been taken. All game taken fair chase, and within the rules of law, is a trophy, regardless of its "score".

 

[R.M.C.]

With my luck I'd spend a small fortune that I would have taken a couple years to save, and only see 100 pound plus bulls. I might only get to hunt the jumbos once and I would personally not hunt in an area that required that. I might have a different point of view if I was financially able to hunt them every year, and also I would hate to be in possession of an elephant permit and have to let a hundred pounder walk away. No guarantee there's an 80 pounder standing next to him lol . I have no problem with areas like that existing, I just wouldn't be booking a hunt there in my position.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

Unless you have a contract that states no 100lb+ elephant taken. You should not be asked, do not to take it. If for some reason you do want to take that particular elephant that is your decision.

Lon

 

[Tanks]

There is a GPS collared old bull at Mana pools that wonders into Nyakasanga hunting concessions and also has been seen 100km further South.

All PHs know not to hunt it, not because it is illegal, but because it is a tourist attraction adding to the experience people get at Mana pools.

As a tourist most hunters would not be impacted if it was shot. The PH however has to live there.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

There is a GPS collared old bull at Mana pools that wonders into Nyakasanga hunting concessions and also has been seen 100km further South.

All PHs know not to hunt it, not because it is illegal, but because it is a tourist attraction adding to the experience people get at Mana pools.

As a tourist most hunters would not be impacted if it was shot. The PH however has to live there.

Hi Tanks,
I have seen that bull 3 times twice while doing croc egg collecting in Mana pools snd once in Nyakasanga with a client. This is an example of this must be settled before the hunt starts.

Lon

 

[VertigoBE]

The question is would you prefer to say that you turned down a 100 pounder for the “smaller” 80 pounder in the group of bulls for the sake of keeping all interest groups happy or would you say “screw it I paid the permit I’m taking the old guy”?

Well, actually you are asking two different things now:
- shooting the smaller 80 pounder over the 100 pounder
- shooting the younger over the older

(I know poundage usually correlates with age, but older elephants also are more likely to have one or both tusks broken)

As far as I'm concerned, poundage is less of a priority than age. Therefore shooting the younger over the older, does not sit quite well with me, and shouldn't for any self respecting hunter. (obvious examples of population control, etc excluded of course) If it is a trophy that the hunter is after, the biggest one will always be age.

Would I rather shoot the 100 pounder? Sure, if it is also the oldest. Avoiding to shoot it, in order not to step on local sensitivities, I would say why not. After all, we all plan to go back on safari in years to come. So if I can keep everyone happy by foregoing one specific animal, I see no reason not to. This will not impact the overall management of game populations.

As to the remark, you give an inch, they take a mile. Well sure, but that's happening anyway already. Foregoing some icon, therefore not attracting media attention or stepping on local sensitive toes, does not stand in the way of game management. While the "any animal is an icon" would stand in the way of good game management practices, and therefore no longer suit a hunters' ethics.

anyhow. Let's hope I one day get to stand in front of a 100 pounder and let's see what happens

 

[rafaellinne]

I would shoot the 100 pounder

 

[baxterb]

That’s a good, complicated question. Brings together laws, morals, impulse, short-term and long-term thinking.

All to say I dunno….

I’ve often stated I would only ever hunt one elephant and stop at that. He would have to be 100+ lb, absolutely geriatric, no teeth, and when the 480gr solid from a 450 Nitro penetrated his brain it would be mercy.

 

[PARA45]

I will probably never hunt elephant in my life. For one, I can't afford them, and two, there is something in me that likes them too much to shoot.

So, for the sake of argument, and this post. I do not care about measurements on any of the animals I have taken, or in this case the weight of the tusk. I would hunt hard and hopefully shoot a mature bull that I've chased half around the property. In my humble opinion, it's the thrill of the hunt, being in a different world hunting, meeting new people, and enjoying the opportunity that God has given me. So, in my case, the 100 pounder would walk.

 

[baxterb]

I will probably never hunt elephant in my life. For one, I can't afford them, and two, there is something in me that likes them too much to shoot.

So, for the sake of argument, and this post. I do not care about measurements on any of the animals I have taken, or in this case the weight of the tusk. I would hunt hard and hopefully shoot a mature bull that I've chased half around the property. In my humble opinion, it's the thrill of the hunt, being in a different world hunting, meeting new people, and enjoying the opportunity that God has given me. So, in my case, the 100 pounder would walk.

I get this perspective.

One may notice the requirements of my one and only elephant hunt are so high that it would likely never be achieved. That’s not on accident.

I believe in the maxim of hunting a lot but killing very little.

 

[mark-hunter]

The question is would you prefer to say that you turned down a 100 pounder for the “smaller” 80 pounder in the group of bulls for the sake of keeping all interest groups happy or would you say “screw it I paid the permit I’m taking the old guy”?

I wouldn't mind passing of 100 pounder, and taking 80 pounder if suggested by PH or other authority .

But, for me personally the size of trophy does not matter. I like the trophy as a simbol and memory of the hunt, but its size does not matter to me.
I am also not a collector of any slam, or any strongest trophy list., nor do I want a book records trophy.

I am also aware, that what works for me, does not work for somebody else.

 

[Christot]

I would not hunt there. If it's for the thrill of the hunt only there are a lot of areas which will never deliver a 100 pounder and usually these areas are cheaper. So I would hunt there. Those areas where a 100 pounder can be found are more expensive and I would think that looking for that exceptional bull is one of the main challenges of this hunt and makes it special. Looking at him after 20 days of searching and than not being able to take him: No thanks. The daily rates thrown away for nothing.

But as I'll never be able financing such a hunt I'm happy that this is not my problem. But I think that could be a real problem for the one leasing the concession, PHs etc.

 

[reineke]

Having shot some Ele between 1998 and 2016 I know what is going on inside
myself when coming close enough to a valuable trophy bull. I would have thought a
lot about all the valuable considerations mentioned in this thread before going to
Afrika. These would be set aside in a millisecond, followed by the sound of my .458 Lott!

 

[grand veneur]

Above all, I would follow the rules of the country and if no 100 Pounders may be shot then none will be shot.

I would also applaud the fact that more select shots are made in Africa than always shooting the nicest and the biggest Trophies. In Europe we are used to having strict rules when it comes to shots. The largest and most beautiful red deer, for example, will not be shot as soon as it is seen.

The problem will solve itself once the trophies get points and then the shooting fees are charged depending on it. Many people will then lose their desire to shoot an 100 Pounder.

 

[IvW]

Shoot all the tuskless first and then the inferior ones....bring the numbers down to sustainable levels for the given area.....most areas are grossly over populated with elephant destroying the habitat then 100 pounders will again roam the African plains.....

 

[IvW]

So for each trophy elephant give the hunter 3 tuskless or inferior genetic elephants on the same licence.....

 

[Hunter-Habib]

For me, it’s not about the trophy size. More about being able to enjoy the hunt itself.

But at the same time… the moment you stop hunting the 100 pounders, the anti hunting crowd will start naming the 80 pounders and demanding that you stop hunting them. And they won’t stop until every form of hunting is banned in every single country in the world. Believe me. I know. These crybaby cultists can’t be indulged even in the slightest. They won’t leave us alone. They’ll just push for more hunting restrictions.