Trying to choose which caliber for a new double rifle

[Dean2]

If you can have up to 12 barrels per receiver I would be calling Keighoff to find out for sure about subsequent barrel purchases, what receiver to accommodate each cartridge choice etc. With one Elephant on the list I would not be buying a gun for that specific hunt right now, I would order that barrel or gun only when I book the hunt. Renting a rifle for that one hunt actually makes way more sense. Being able to swap barrels means you can use a great all round like the 9.3x74, 375 flanged etc for the majority of the hnting you do, as well as order sets in 7x64R etc for more variety down the road.

 

[Rem700stw]

For what it is worth I would go with the 450/400 3 inch for an all- around double. In fact it was the all around cartridge prior to the introduction of the 375 H&H. I adore my W.J. Jeffery in 400 Jeffery Express (450/400) and it will be accompanying me to Africa in May.

Read Pondoro Taylor on this subject as well. Beware of lightweight doubles. The recoil in my Chapuis 9.3x74 is rather sharp although it a delight to carry.

 

[IvW]

Not a fan of the kgun.

Caliber wise I would get two sets of barrels
450/400 NE/450/400 NE
9.3X74R/9.3×74R

 

[reineke]

all good advice-but please do not choose the 9,3x74 R! Apart from being illegal on Elefant
in Zim it does not have enough steam for a frontal brainshot and, from my point of view, is marginal on buffalo, where you often need to penetrate the overlapping ribs or the shoulder blade.
The 9,3x74 R gives you 4.794 Joule max, compared to the 5.382 with the 9,3x62- and this cartridge is illegal on Elefant , too.....
So for me the bottomline would be the .375 FL Magnum with 5.491 Joule.

 

[KJE81]

Would one receiver and two sets of barrels count as one gun, or two?

It would count as one gun.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

My first double was a 375 Flanged Magnum O/U. It is extremely light at 7.6 pounds and e real joy to carry. The recoil is not bad, about the same as a 375H&H in a 9 pound rifle.
I chose 450/400 3" for my new side by side Heym. From every side I got the advice that this is the way to go for a single 'do all' double that may include an elephant. This double is in the Africa frame and weighs 10 pounds.
Heym from my research makes the strongest action double and that is way more important than cosmetic fratures. Even so the Heym 89b is an extremely good looking double and I think looks even better with just modest line engraving.
If you set your heart on the 375 Flanged then Heym offers this in their light frame at 7.92 pounds. That would be like a magic wand in the bush and mounted with a scope would be good for any buffalo and plains game, and a single elephant too because shot placement would be about perfect.

 

[KJE81]

If you can shoot it accurately no reason you can't use it....people use 404 ....and ....416 for everything...so 450/400 no reason you couldn't...just need to get closer and maybe miss out on taking some shots...but all part of the fun....and in future you add extra barrel sets as and when you want or can....seems good way of getting around your limited gun rules

I just hope that the outfitters does not disapprove of that strategy. Other than that I dont mind getting as close as possible as opposed to long range shooting

 

[KJE81]

Not a fan of the kgun.

Caliber wise I would get two sets of barrels
450/400 NE/450/400 NE
9.3X74R/9.3×74R

Why do you dislike it?

 

[KJE81]

all good advice-but please do not choose the 9,3x74 R! Apart from being illegal on Elefant
in Zim it does not have enough steam for a frontal brainshot and, from my point of view, is marginal on buffalo, where you often need to penetrate the overlapping ribs or the shoulder blade.
The 9,3x74 R gives you 4.794 Joule max, compared to the 5.382 with the 9,3x62- and this cartridge is illegal on Elefant , too.....
So for me the bottomline would be the .375 FL Magnum with 5.491 Joule.

Thank you for the information regarding the legal requirements, .375 and above it is then

 

[KJE81]

My first double was a 375 Flanged Magnum O/U. It is extremely light at 7.6 pounds and e real joy to carry. The recoil is not bad, about the same as a 375H&H in a 9 pound rifle.
I chose 450/400 3" for my new side by side Heym. From every side I got the advice that this is the way to go for a single 'do all' double that may include an elephant. This double is in the Africa frame and weighs 10 pounds.
Heym from my research makes the strongest action double and that is way more important than cosmetic fratures. Even so the Heym 89b is an extremely good looking double and I think looks even better with just modest line engraving.
If you set your heart on the 375 Flanged then Heym offers this in their light frame at 7.92 pounds. That would be like a magic wand in the bush and mounted with a scope would be good for any buffalo and plains game, and a single elephant too because shot placement would be about perfect.

Nice to hear of your experience with the .375 Flanged, sounds like it would be perfect for me.

Regarding Heym there is a double rifle in .375 Flanged for sale in Sweden at the monent, but unfortunately it is a 88B which in my opinion is not as nice looking as the 89B, especially since this one has quite a crooked german style stock. Had it been an 89B I would have bought it allready

Have you used your 450/400 on any plainsgame by the way?

 

[spike.t]

I just hope that the outfitters does not disapprove of that strategy. Other than that I dont mind getting as close as possible as opposed to long range shooting

If they do find another one......

 

[KJE81]

If you can have up to 12 barrels per receiver I would be calling Keighoff to find out for sure about subsequent barrel purchases, what receiver to accommodate each cartridge choice etc. With one Elephant on the list I would not be buying a gun for that specific hunt right now, I would order that barrel or gun only when I book the hunt. Renting a rifle for that one hunt actually makes way more sense. Being able to swap barrels means you can use a great all round like the 9.3x74, 375 flanged etc for the majority of the hnting you do, as well as order sets in 7x64R etc for more variety down the road.

That sounds like a sound reasoning

 

[Tom Leoni]

@KJE81 - I own several fine sporting rifles, from .500 NE to 6.5x54 MS. *And,* as the product manager of a premium rifle line within a large firearms company, I work with and have on loan every rifle and caliber you can imagine from .223 Win to .470 Nitro.

Yet, my go-to hunting gun has been and remains my .375 H&H Flanged. With it, I can take any animal that walks the Earth, from Africa's tiny ten to buffalo and even more. If versatility and a stellar track record on the world's game are what matters to you, you can't do better than a .375 H&H--and yes, in a double rifle or single shot the flanged version is absolutely fool-proof, in spite of how good the extractor/ejection systems for rimless shells have become in the last 20 years.

Besides the fact that it is not exactly a cartridge that you can find in factory-loaded form at your corner gun-store, it is available, it is absolutely a snap to reload and there are, oh, a million different kinds of bullets for it from practically every manufacturer. And bullets and brass are cheap and ALWAYS widely available, even during the bizarro-world time we're in (good luck finding a box of .450-400 without getting gouged!).

But the clincher is the perfect balance between hard-hitting, relative light weight, manageable recoil, and flat trajectory. With the 270-grain bullet--my favorite--you have pretty much the trajectory of a hot-rodded .308 Winchester with a 180 grain bullet, and you're surpassing the 4,000 foot-pound barrier with a rather generous margin. Load data--if you handload--is the same exact as for the belted version.

I frankly don't see any drawbacks to the other calibers that were recommended to you--IF YOU COULD HAVE AN UNLIMITED AMOUNT OF RIFLES. But if you're planning on investing big bucks on your ultimate one-gun worldwide hunter's toolkit, the .375 H&H has been the king since 1912 and I can't think of a single reason not to choose it for your project.

 

[Safari Dave]

My vote is for the .470 NE!

 

[Safari Dave]

I would go with a Heym.


Get a .30 caliber bolt action for the plains game.

 

[Safari Dave]

Make sure you put a scope on the bolt action.

 

[Commish]

I have a Heym 88b in 450/400. I don’t have any hunting experience with a Krieghoff.

But as for hunting plains game with 450/400 it’s a great caliber. I have taken everything from genet cat and above with mine. I have taken impala out to 150 yards or so. I have a detachable scope on mine which makes it quite versatile. The 450/400 is unbelievably pleasant to shoot, and I wouldn’t hesitate to use it as a driven or stand hunt gun. It kicks less than several of my 30 caliber bolt guns. In the heat of the moment, I have doubled my 450/400 before, and even that was not unpleasant. 450/400 is excellent for buffalo and above adequate for elephant. If you’re looking for something that you can use at home and in Africa for just about anything you run across, and you only wanted one double, I don’t think you could go wrong with a 450/400 3 inch.

 

[sureshot375]

.500/.416 is the best caliber for a client double in my opinion. When it comes to elephant it has amazing penetration. The recoil is manageable. It has a little flatter trajectory if you pair it with a scope for a little longer shots on plains game. I like the extra velocity over the .450/.400.

You are also not wrong in your thinking that the .375 in the smaller frame would be a more nimble hunting package. You might get more use out of it at home.

 

[Longwalker]

I have researched this question with similar motives, and ... I decided on a double in .450-400 3". If I didn't already have a bolt action .375H&H and a O/U double in 9.3x74R I would have chosen a .375 H&H Flanged. You will shoot your new double much more at home and in practise sessions if it is chambered in a cartridge that is "shooter friendly". And the accuracy as a result of more practise will make it a better choice for truly big game than a very big bore that is difficult to shoot well because of recoil. So my suggestion is, .450-400 or .375 Flanged. Both are versatile, capable, and reasonable choices.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

Nice to hear of your experience with the .375 Flanged, sounds like it would be perfect for me.

Regarding Heym there is a double rifle in .375 Flanged for sale in Sweden at the monent, but unfortunately it is a 88B which in my opinion is not as nice looking as the 89B, especially since this one has quite a crooked german style stock. Had it been an 89B I would have bought it allready

Have you used your 450/400 on any plainsgame by the way?

No I havent received it yet, but many on this site have and they seem to have done well.