Politics

[tigris115]

I haven't sat down to watch TV in years. Everything I need is on the internet with no commercials (Thank the Lord for Adblock), when I want it, and how I want it.

 

[Saul]

I have nothing against those who are planning on voting for Trump this year. However, I will not be doing so again. In my opinion, he has not earned my vote. He has exploded the national debt, abdicated global power to Russia and China, abandoned our allies, and presided over probably the most dysfunctional and corrupt administrations I have ever seen. Too many generals have decried his actions for me not to take notice. He has little regard for the separation of powers and is hellbent on expanding government power. He brags about sexually assaulting women. He constantly plays the victim card and acts like everyone is against him. These are not the characteristics of a leader and they are not the characteristics of a person I want to represent America. Since when did intellectual debate, mutual respect, and proper manners become signs of weakness? We can do so much better than Trump. It is on all of us to stop pointing fingers and to elevate our level of discourse to that of gentlemen if we want to save our nation.

 

[Alistair]

So Donald just screwed me.

Waiting on a H1-B to start my new job, expecting to be stateside for September, now looking more like March 2021. Real smart. Let's stop immigration of the people with secure jobs lined up and skills that demonstrably cannot be filled by the local population for political points.

6 out of 14 in my team now stuck working remotely for at least 6 months waiting on visas. What impact that'll have on the product development pipeline for 2021 onwards I've no idea. All it seems to have achieved for my company is a loss of 7 months of tax contributions from half a dozen well paid employees, all the money that I, and they would have been spending in the US that's now staying in the UK, Canada and South Africa and potentially hurt the top line of a US based company.

 

[Red Leg]

I have nothing against those who are planning on voting for Trump this year. However, I will not be doing so again. In my opinion, he has not earned my vote. He has exploded the national debt, abdicated global power to Russia and China, abandoned our allies, and presided over probably the most dysfunctional and corrupt administrations I have ever seen. Too many generals have decried his actions for me not to take notice. He has little regard for the separation of powers and is hellbent on expanding government power. He brags about sexually assaulting women. He constantly plays the victim card and acts like everyone is against him. These are not the characteristics of a leader and they are not the characteristics of a person I want to represent America. Since when did intellectual debate, mutual respect, and proper manners become signs of weakness? We can do so much better than Trump. It is on all of us to stop pointing fingers and to elevate our level of discourse to that of gentlemen if we want to save our nation.

I would vote for a dead pedophile before I would vote for any democrat on any ticket this election cycle. Oh, and I was a general officer as well.

 

[Saul]

I would vote for a dead dead pedophile before I would vote for any democrat on any ticket this fall. Oh, and I was a general officer as well.

Would you care to explain why you believe that Trump deserves a second term and what you think of the comments made by those in the armed forces who have publicly spoken out against him? https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/11/trump-generals/601348/

As a side note, I am assuming you are being hyperbolic. I would hope that all Americans would not vote for a pedophile regardless of political views.

 

[Hogpatrol]

 

[Red Leg]

Would you care to explain why you believe that Trump deserves a second term and what you think of the comments made by those in the armed forces who have publicly spoken out against him?

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/11/trump-generals/601348/

I also disagree profoundly with David Patraeus's unsolicited opinion in the Atlantic as well that the Army should rename Southern bases that are named for Southern Generals. Though I am not surprised. He has demonstrated a uniquely sensitive sense of the prevailing political wind his whole career. Had he not decided to have an affair with his biographer and break the law, I am sure you would have had the opportunity to vote for him in a primary.

Those installations were created on land in the South because the South was still dirt poor having not yet fully recovered from the Civil War, and thus exercising imminent domain cost the federal government far less there than say the Midwest. Naming them for Bragg, Polk, Hood, etc. was both a sop to the locals, but also a very real act of reconciliation. In the ensuing nearly 100 years, those installations and soldiers (a plurality of combat arms officers and soldiers still come from the original states of the Confederacy) trained and stationed their have written their own histories across a hundred battlefields. The battle streamers on the Army and regimental flags for the Civil War are blue and gray to represent the Army's shared history with all Americans who fought in that war.

I would also urge you to actually read the article you posted. I personally know and served with most of the Army GO's quoted. Several are friends. They are typically quoted as disagreeing with a specific action taken by the administration. I have disagreed with many. However, there is a huge gulf between disagreeing with, for instance, pulling out of Syria (which seems pretty smart in hindsight), and embracing a political movement led by a cognitive challenged puppet intent upon the destruction of our cultural and political heritage.

 

[Saul]

I also disagree profoundly with David Patraeus's unsolicited opinion in the Atlantic as well that the Army should rename Southern bases that are named for Southern Generals. Though I am not surprised. He has demonstrated a uniquely sensitive sense of the prevailing political wind his whole career. Had he not decided to have an affair with his biographer and break the law, I am sure you would have had the opportunity to vote for him in a primary.

Those installations were created on land in the South because the South was still dirt poor having not yet fully recovered from the Civil War, and thus exercising imminent domain cost the federal government far less there than say the Midwest. Naming them for Bragg, Polk, Hood, etc. was both a sop to the locals, but also a very real act of reconciliation. In the ensuing nearly 100 years, those installations and soldiers (a plurality of combat arms officers and soldiers still come from the original states of the Confederacy) trained and stationed their have written their own histories across a hundred battlefields. The battle streamers on the Army and regimental flags for the Civil War are blue and gray to represent the Army's shared history with all Americans who fought in that war.

I would also urge you to actually read the article you posted. I personally know and served with most of the Army GO's quoted. Several are friends. They are typically quoted as disagreeing with a specific action taken by the administration. I have disagreed with many. However, there is a huge gulf between disagreeing with, for instance, pulling out of Syria (which seems pretty smart in hindsight), and embracing a political movement led by a cognitive challenged puppet intent upon the destruction of our cultural and political heritage.

Yes, the article is dated and focuses primarily on Syria, but I urge you to consider the recent denunciations of Trump by Generals Powell and Mattis.

 

[35bore]

I have nothing against those who are planning on voting for Trump this year. However, I will not be doing so again. In my opinion, he has not earned my vote. He has exploded the national debt, abdicated global power to Russia and China, abandoned our allies, and presided over probably the most dysfunctional and corrupt administrations I have ever seen. Too many generals have decried his actions for me not to take notice. He has little regard for the separation of powers and is hellbent on expanding government power. He brags about sexually assaulting women. He constantly plays the victim card and acts like everyone is against him. These are not the characteristics of a leader and they are not the characteristics of a person I want to represent America. Since when did intellectual debate, mutual respect, and proper manners become signs of weakness? We can do so much better than Trump. It is on all of us to stop pointing fingers and to elevate our level of discourse to that of gentlemen if we want to save our nation.

So what is the alternative then? Place Biden (sorry, threw up in my mouth a little) into office? Then the DNC points out what we already know, his mental state, and declares him unable to be president. Then puts who THEY HAVE CHOOSEN AS VP into the presidential seat, and then guess who becomes VP, Pelosi!!!! Ya, thanks but no thanks, I'd rather not be "owned by China or Russia " pretty content where we're at.
NO president will ever be perfect for everyone, plain and simple. If they were, I guess it would be time to make your peace with God. My favorite pres of all times was Reagan, but even the pedestal I put him on is filled with flaws. Reagan (when governor of the CA) shut down the right to open carry in CA. Why you ask, because the black Panthers scared the shit out of a bunch of politicians by showing up at the Capitol armed to the teeth. Simply exercising their rights. Reagan succumbed to political pressure. Still I accept his faults, and appreciate his accomplishments.
Some may consider giving president Trump the same consideration. We're asking him to fix in 4 years what it took politicians over 200 years to F**k up.

 

[Saul]

So what is the alternative then? Place Biden (sorry, threw up in my mouth a little) into office? Then the DNC points out what we already know, his mental state, and declares him unable to be president. Then puts who THEY HAVE CHOOSEN AS VP into the presidential seat, and then guess who becomes VP, Pelosi!!!! Ya, thanks but no thanks, I'd rather not be "owned by China or Russia " pretty content where we're at.
NO president will ever be perfect for everyone, plain and simple. If they were, I guess it would be time to make your peace with God. My favorite pres of all times was Reagan, but even the pedestal I put him on is filled with flaws. Reagan (when governor of the CA) shut down the right to open carry in CA. Why you ask, because the black Panthers scared the shit out of a bunch of politicians by showing up at the Capitol armed to the teeth. Simply exercising their rights. Reagan succumbed to political pressure. Still I accept his faults, and appreciate his accomplishments.
Some may consider giving president Trump the same consideration. We're asking him to fix in 4 years what it took politicians over 200 years to F**k up.

I understand where you are coming from, but I HIGHLY doubt that Biden is some conspiracy to make Kamala Harris president and Pelosi VP. Biden will serve one term, largely returning the country to normalcy and not introducing any big or controversial legislation so as not to hurt the chances of the dem candidate who will run in 2024.

With regard to Trump, I tend to agree with him on policy more often than not, and certainly more often than with Biden. However, he has failed in my eyes to enact much concrete policy, has abandoned the principles of small government and responsible budgets, and has consistently demonstrated a disdain for civility. Why do you expect anyhting to change if you give him a second term. Yes, you might have to grit your teeth for four years, but then we can hopefully nominate a candidate who has respect for the office.

 

[35bore]

I understand where you are coming from, but I HIGHLY doubt that Biden is some conspiracy to make Kamala Harris president and Pelosi VP. Biden will serve one term, largely returning the country to normalcy and not introducing any big or controversial legislation so as not to hurt the chances of the dem candidate who will run in 2024.

With regard to Trump, I tend to agree with him on policy more often than not, and certainly more often than with Biden. However, he has failed in my eyes to enact much concrete policy, has abandoned the principles of small government and responsible budgets, and has consistently demonstrated a disdain for civility. Why do you expect anyhting to change if you give him a second term. Yes, you might have to grit your teeth for four years, but then we can hopefully nominate a candidate who has respect for the office.

Nice to have a peaceful disagreement for once. I understand what you are saying, I really do. The alternative however (and you can label it as a conspiracy theory or whatever you want to label it as) Joe Bidens mentally is where Reagan's mental state was at the end of office. Huge difference is that dems and Republicans actually tried to save face for him, ) when Alzheimers set in, and it was obvious). Which I am very proud of all politicians at that time. That being said, I don't know how you view civility, but I say its earned. Just like respect,. You have been respectful to me, and I will be respectful to you. President Trump has been ,nothing short of attacked, since Hillary canceled here victory fireworks display. Media hasn't given this guy a chance, not saying he helps with some of his comments, but most of his comments are spot on when it comes to the media. So again civility/respect is earned in my book. If you would have been a Dick to me it would have been return 2fold, but you weren't, so thank you for that.

 

[wesheltonj]

@Saul, Bush 2 tried civility, and was eaten alive and in typical D fashion, made out to be an idiot. (Sound familiar). I prefer Trump shoving it back up their asses. Is the debt blown, of course. That will take a couple of lifetimes to get under control.

Trump is hated by both sides because he is causing change (and is too rich to be bought off, like all the rest have been), and change is not profitable for those currently in power.

 

[Red Leg]

Yes, the article is dated and focuses primarily on Syria, but I urge you to consider the recent denunciations of Trump by Generals Powell and Mattis.

With respect to Powell, I first dealt with him in the mid 1980’s when he was with the National Security Council. By the time I was LTC in the early nineties I considered him one of my mentors.

You may remember Bush appointed him SEC State. Post 911 Powell and Rumsfeld entered into a political battle over who would manage post-war Iraq. Regrettably for our country, Bush chose Rumsfeld (whose incompetence will be the subject of many future histories) and Powell withdrew from Republican politics. His current position is as personal as I believe it is wrong headed.

I do not care for Mattis in the least. He is a political animal in the same, if less articulate mold, as David Patreaus. I could care less what he thinks on almost any subject other than training Marines.

 

[Saul]

Nice to have a peaceful disagreement for once. I understand what you are saying, I really do. The alternative however (and you can label it as a conspiracy theory or whatever you want to label it as) Joe Bidens mentally is where Reagan's mental state was at the end of office. Huge difference is that dems and Republicans actually tried to save face for him, ) when Alzheimers set in, and it was obvious). Which I am very proud of all politicians at that time. That being said, I don't know how you view civility, but I say its earned. Just like respect,. You have been respectful to me, and I will be respectful to you. President Trump has been ,nothing short of attacked, since Hillary canceled here victory fireworks display. Media hasn't given this guy a chance, not saying he helps with some of his comments, but most of his comments are spot on when it comes to the media. So again civility/respect is earned in my book. If you would have been a Dick to me it would have been return 2fold, but you weren't, so thank you for that.

And I thank you in return. I completely agree about civility and I am trying my very hardest to bring respect to my discussions about politics and I hope all do the same.

I would be blind if I did not notice that Biden is suffering from at least some sort of mental decline, whether or not that would be diagnosed as Alzheimers is a question for his doctor. I will say that Trump does not appear much better mentally, and it seems that his rambling has certainly gotten a lot worse over the past year. I do not mean this as a political slight. It is important that we acknowledge that regardless of who is elected, he will be our oldest president, and none of us are as sharp as we once were, and that only gets worse the older we get. The difference between the two of them is that I believe Biden will surround himself with people capable of taking up the necessary responsibilities if his mental health does see a sharp decline once taking office. With Trump, I am much less sure. There seems to be a lack of will from the right to account for his more "unexpected" comments and decisions.

I also agree that Trump has not been given a fair shake by the media. However, I personally believe that a leader, especially one who is taking on the role of leading the nation, should stay out of the gutter when facing criticism, fair or unfair, and instead make it unquestionably clear through their actions that the critics are wrong. In my opinion, Trump has failed to do so. He seems completely unable to handle any criticism whatsoever without firing back with baseless attacks, including those against well-respected and civil statesmen, including McCain, Powell, Mattis, etc.

 

[Saul]

With respect to Powell, I first dealt with him in the mid 1980’s when he was with the National Security Council. By the time I was LTC in the early nineties I considered him one of my mentors.

You may remember Bush appointed him SEC State. Post 911 Powell and Rumsfeld entered into a political battle over who would manage post-war Iraq. Regrettably for our country, Bush chose Rumsfeld (whose incompetence will be the subject of many future histories) and Powell withdrew from Republican politics. His current position is as personal as I believe it is wrong headed.

I do not care for Mattis in the least. He is a political animal in the same, if less articulate mold, as David Patreaus. I could care less what he thinks on almost any subject other than training Marines.

Interesting. I am the first to admit that I do not have the mettle to serve in the Armed forces and I have a great deal of respect for those who do. I really appreciate having those on this forum such as yourself who do have such insights into these individuals.

Do you think Trump appointed Mattis out of ignorance? Did he appoint Kelly out of ignorance? It just seems to me that he has a trend of appointing very well-respected individuals to high positions, celebrates these individuals when they are on his side, fires them as soon as they dissent, and then drags their names through the mud. From my perspective, this either suggests that he is either a terrible judge of character and incapable of forming a government himself, a complete puppet of the party establishment, or unable to deal with criticism from his own advisors.

 

[jeanes]

I am not sure what the national debt stands at right now since no one seems to dwell on it as in the past. What I remember is that it was 8 trillion when Bush left office and 22 trillion when Obama left office. How much has Trump increase that?

 

[Saul]

@Saul, Bush 2 tried civility, and was eaten alive and in typical D fashion, made out to be an idiot. (Sound familiar). I prefer Trump shoving it back up their asses. Is the debt blown, of course. That will take a couple of lifetimes to get under control.

Trump is hated by both sides because he is causing change (and is too rich to be bought off, like all the rest have been), and change is not profitable for those currently in power.

I always liked the Bushes and I think they were treated quite unfairly by the media, as well as by Trump. Still, I personally believe that the person who inhabits the highest office in the world has to be better than fighting in the gutter.

 

[Saul]

I am not sure what the national debt stands at right now since no one seems to dwell on it as in the past. What I remember is that it was 8 trillion when Bush left office and 22 trillion when Obama left office. How much has Trump increase that?

https://www.thebalance.com/us-debt-by-president-by-dollar-and-percent-3306296

 

[cpr0312]

 

[Brent in Az]

Notice how invisible Joe Biden is lately?
Not by accident.