Your opinion on selecting a .500 NE 3” or .470 NE?

[grand veneur]

Boxlocks are more prone to doubling ?

Certainly. One only need to look inside such an action to see what all can go wrong. It surprises me that many discussions about doubling of double rifles don't differentiate between boxlock and sidelock break-actions.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Certainly. One only need to look inside such an action to see what all can go wrong. It surprises me that many discussions about doubling of double rifles don't differentiate between boxlock and sidelock break-actions.

Hey, thanks @grand veneur
You learn something new everyday. Although I always found boxlocks to be more beautiful than sidelocks due to their more minimalistic appearance.

 

[grand veneur]

Regarding the choice between the cartridges 470 Nitro Express and 500 Nitro Express, ultimately it also depends on which rifle you can still handle well. Contrary to what many unfortunately don't want to understand, bigger is in all cases better and therefore it is never a bad decision to choose the most powerful rifle that you can still easily control. Of course, within the limits of reason.

 

[bimbo]

I could prefer 470 over 500,but only for defense after a true hard training, for availability about ammo and case look as well.I don t like cases shoulderless.

 

[HankBuck]

Everyone,

If you were faced with the decision of selecting only either a .470 NE or a .500 NE 3” what criteria would you base your selection on?

Thanks in advance.

@Schüler Jumbo - the “criteria” would be HOW MUCH OF A MAN ARE YOU?
Do you want to be seen carrying a “Woman’s” Double Rifle or move up to A REAL MANS DOUBLE? >>> I’m just kidding…<<<
I faced the same decision 20 years ago and quickly decided that a .470NE was more then enough for any African Game and while Bigger-is-Better —- I needed to be sure I could handle the recoil and shoot it accurately. I was pleased with my selection of a Chapius .470NE and it was a beautiful gun that was extremely accurate - I shot it very well in practice out to 100 yrds both with AND without quick detach scope….off hand or on-the-sticks I put 80-90 rounds thru it practicing in the weeks before my Safari and I was confident I could hit vitals on any buffalo out to 100 yrds. Then, I went to TZ and “failed” to shoot it as well as in practice - did Not return with a Buff (although my Son killed one with that .470NE). On an actual hunt, sometimes rushed setting up sticks and a bit excited, getting off a shot in real time - I was Not shooting that gun well, likely flinched, made a complete miss and later a poorly placed shot = wounded and long tracking job on Buff. For me, a .375 H&H would’ve been a better choice….or I should’ve added a good Recoil Reducer in the stock before the trip (I added one afterwards - made a difference). Get whatever Double Rifle you want but be sure you can handle it well and shoot it accurately WHEN IT COUNTS.

 

[bimbo]

@Schüler Jumbo - the “criteria” would be HOW MUCH OF A MAN ARE YOU?
Do you want to be seen carrying a “Woman’s” Double Rifle or move up to A REAL MANS DOUBLE? >>> I’m just kidding…<<<
I faced the same decision 20 years ago and quickly decided that a .470NE was more then enough for any African Game and while Bigger-is-Better —- I needed to be sure I could handle the recoil and shoot it accurately. I was pleased with my selection of a Chapius .470NE and it was a beautiful gun that was extremely accurate - I shot it very well in practice out to 100 yrds both with AND without quick detach scope….off hand or on-the-sticks I put 80-90 rounds thru it practicing in the weeks before my Safari and I was confident I could hit vitals on any buffalo out to 100 yrds. Then, I went to TZ and “failed” to shoot it as well as in practice - did Not return with a Buff (although my Son killed one with that .470NE). On an actual hunt, sometimes rushed setting up sticks and a bit excited, getting off a shot in real time - I was Not shooting that gun well, likely flinched, made a complete miss and later a poorly placed shot = wounded and long tracking job on Buff. For me, a .375 H&H would’ve been a better choice….or I should’ve added a good Recoil Reducer in the stock before the trip (I added one afterwards - made a difference). Get whatever Double Rifle you want but be sure you can handle it well and shoot it accurately WHEN IT COUNTS.

I agree in full man...I have hunted with my 9.3x74r and my father 375 HeH pg and dg without any problem ...never.I cinsider big double only for defense and for very good trained people.On DG shoot straight is everything togheter a good premium bullet

 

[Wildwillalaska]

Between the 470 and 500, I’d choose the 450NE. lol.

I’m admittedly presently in my 450NE fanboy phase, and it made my 470 appear redundant as I get same ballistics (actually slightly better) with 500gr bullets as I did with the 470 and superior sectional density for penetration. After hearing Kevin Robertson discuss his experiences with 470’s over the years and preferences for clients shooting them to avoid front brain shots on ele’s, it got me nerding out on sectional density comparisons. He really keys in on it in several discussions in few podcasts, and has preference for the 450NE or 500NE. I’m not going to argue with the man, he’s certainly not an armchair expert or internet hero, he’s guided a client or two and examined a wound channel or few in his years, so I took a little of it as grains of wisdom. We all have opinions and feelings on guns and calibers, as we should, but there are some out there that have amassed a level of first-hand experience that’s hard to argue with. And enjoy his anecdotal accounts of his friends Heym 88b in 450NE shooting Northfork solids diagonally through elephants for a living. Some guys have all the fun.

Doctari speaks, I listen. Same for our esteemed @Hunter-Habib. We can speak our opinions and we should, but maintain the ability to recognize wisdom as well when it’s shared.

I also just traded out my 88b 470 for the same in 500. Hoping to see a package from JJ within the next couple weeks.

End of the day, we aren’t PH’s, we aren’t ivory hunters where we might have the opportunity to experience a frontal brain shots on the regular…which brings so much of this discussion to Ford/Chevy/Dodge (well, maybe not Dodge)…shoot what you like. Carry what makes you happy. We should feel cool and confident in what drive and shoot.

And think 600NE may be like big ocean boats and airplanes. What’s better than owning one, having a friend that does. Hunter-Habib, when you get that dream Heym 600, I’d enjoy an invitation to travel over and shoot it.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Between the 470 and 500, I’d choose the 450NE. lol.

I’m admittedly presently in my 450NE fanboy phase, and it made my 470 appear redundant as I get same ballistics (actually slightly better) with 500gr bullets as I did with the 470 and superior sectional density for penetration. After hearing Kevin Robertson discuss his experiences with 470’s over the years and preferences for clients shooting them to avoid front brain shots on ele’s, it got me nerding out on sectional density comparisons. He really keys in on it in several discussions in few podcasts, and has preference for the 450NE or 500NE. I’m not going to argue with the man, he’s certainly not an armchair expert or internet hero, he’s guided a client or two and examined a wound channel or few in his years, so I took a little of it as grains of wisdom. We all have opinions and feelings on guns and calibers, as we should, but there are some out there that have amassed a level of first-hand experience that’s hard to argue with. And enjoy his anecdotal accounts of his friends Heym 88b in 450NE shooting Northfork solids diagonally through elephants for a living. Some guys have all the fun.

Doctari speaks, I listen. Same for our esteemed @Hunter-Habib. We can speak our opinions and we should, but maintain the ability to recognize wisdom as well when it’s shared.

I also just traded out my 88b 470 for the same in 500. Hoping to see a package from JJ within the next couple weeks.

End of the day, we aren’t PH’s, we aren’t ivory hunters where we might have the opportunity to experience a frontal brain shots on the regular…which brings so much of this discussion to Ford/Chevy/Dodge (well, maybe not Dodge)…shoot what you like. Carry what makes you happy. We should feel cool and confident in what drive and shoot.

And think 600NE may be like big ocean boats and airplanes. What’s better than owning one, having a friend that does. Hunter-Habib, when you get that dream Heym 600, I’d enjoy an invitation to travel over and shoot it.

@Wildwillalaska

I'd consider it to be a real pleasure. You could use it to shoot a saltwater crocodile with me.

 

[Wildwillalaska]

I’m in. Don’t have to threaten me with a good time. I think traveling to swap gun stories and shoot with gents is time and effort well spent for sure.

 

[HankBuck]

Mark Sullivan disagrees as he considers the .500 as a starter caliber.

@Tanks - you just gotta like Mark Sullivan, a little “odd” but in a good way, would be a fun guy to share a hunting Camp with - and of course he can handle a Double Rifle better then most ….especially When-it-Counts.

 

[Mountaineer]

I own a 500 Nitro, but have not mastered its recoil. It will take time. It’s not a man bun caliber. If I was not a hand loader I could never afford to get proficient with the gun. It would cost several thousands of dollars for met to train enough I should be DG hunting with it.

 

[bimbo]

@Tanks - you just gotta like Mark Sullivan, a little “odd” but in a good way, would be a fun guy to share a hunting Camp with - and of course he can handle a Double Rifle better then most ….especially When-it-Counts.

O Sullivan is a great PH doubtless but he have to walk always upon a propaganda 's wave which go for those caliber which nobody will never buy

 

[Franco]

Everyone,

If you were faced with the decision of selecting only either a .470 NE or a .500 NE 3” what criteria would you base your selection on?

Thanks in advance.

My criteria would be:

What am I planning to hunt, how many of them, and how often?

What other rifles, if any, do I already own?

Am I considering hunting elephant, 1 or more than 1, once or multiple safaris? How about cape buffalo or hippo - water, land, both? Plains game?

Without knowing the answers, a recommendation is difficult - but, you haven't asked for one, only the selection criteria.

Guys have said it here on your thread and elsewhere in this forum, it's all about shot placement. Either of those two calibers are capable of stopping Big Game, the question will be - how well can you shoot it?

None of the oohs and awes in camp the night before your hunt will make up for a misplaced shot the next day.

When I first considered going to Africa I imagined myself with a 577, why - because it sounded cool. I had no clue about anything to do with calibers, doubles, ANYTHING at all. I was talked into getting a 450/400. Honestly, I was a bit embarrassed - kinda like the kid who doesn't want to shower with the rest of the guys in gym class. (OK guys - no need to start a thread on that) I shot 4 cape buffalo on that safari, 3 with the 450/400. Since then I've shot elephants, rhino, giraffe, etc. But, perhaps more pertinent to your question, I carried it all day and shot it multiple times on a cull hunt in Australia. I don't know if I could do that with the 500.

Have you shot either or both of those calibers? Would there be an opportunity?

Having shot the 450/400, 470, 500, 577, my personal experience has been: the 450/400 and 500 have a flatter recoil and leave me more able to stay on target for the second shot. The 470 seemed "snappier" with more barrel rise. I put the 577 down after the first shot.

To be fair to this comparison, the 450/400 and 500 were my rifles, custom fitted to me. The 470 and 577 were not.

I bought my 500NE for elephants, cape buffalo, and hippos, and to be able to say I owned one; but, I also have the 450/400, a 458 Lott, a 416 Rigby, and a 375 H&H. If I am not able to achieve the same level of accuracy and comfort with the 500NE as with my 450/400 - the 500NE will stay home and quite possibly be for sale.

There are those who will disagree, but - if I had to choose using the criteria I posted: 1 gun to do it all - 470, elephant hunt - 500NE.

Good luck with your selection. What are you planning to hunt?

 

[Franco]

@Wildwillalaska

I'd consider it to be a real pleasure. You could use it to shoot a saltwater crocodile with me.

@Wildwillalaska & @Hunter-Habib, I've shot a croc at close range with my double - frontal brain, both barrels. It was awesome. You guys have fun.

 

[Franco]

I own a 500 Nitro, but have not mastered its recoil. It will take time. It’s not a man bun caliber. If I was not a hand loader I could never afford to get proficient with the gun. It would cost several thousands of dollars for met to train enough I should be DG hunting with it.

Same here. I hope I can achieve the same level of comfort and accuracy with my 500 as with my 450/400. I understand about the ammo; it took a few boxes to get use to it, now I look forward to shooting it.

 

[rookhawk]

I could prefer 470 over 500,but only for defense after a true hard training, for availability about ammo and case look as well.I don t like cases shoulderless.

@bimbo you're absolutely right and you're not the first person in history to make this recommendation. In the modern era, particularly for Americans, our first question is "How accurate is the rifle?" whereas the best hunters of the "great white hunter" era started with the question "how well does it feed and extract?".

If I had infinite resources, I would never own a 577NE as an elephant stopper. The one to get honors @bimbo's commments. It was the 600/577NE REWA, a rare caliber invented by the Nawab of Rewa, in India. About 25-35 were made by H&H and others. It's a 600NE necked down for better penetration, velocity, and extraction. An added benefit is that 577 bullets are much easier to find.

That would be the true "Stopper" for a professional elephant man.

 

[Monski]

Certainly. One only need to look inside such an action to see what all can go wrong. It surprises me that many discussions about doubling of double rifles don't differentiate between boxlock and sidelock break-actions.

Very interesting!

 

[Monski]

When I decided to buy a double rifle, I wanted a 500 NE but since I'm a lefty, I jumped on a LH 470 that became available. Barnes mono solid bullets penetrated perfectly on a front brain shot on a big elephant bull and previously exited a bull on a body shot bull. It took me some time to master recoil and proper holding so that I didn't smash my middle finger on the back of the trigger guard. I did put a rubber bumper attachment on the rear of the trigger guard.

I've been hunting with a 505 Gibbs bolt rifle in recent times and not sure I will use the smaller caliber if I would hunt elephant again. Still, when I hold the double, the balance, weight, etc feels so so right. I won't, can't buy a 2nd double but still somewhat yearn for a 500 NE. Then my choice would be between two 50 cals and double vs bolt. Nice choices to have.