Purchased a Sabatti Double, anyone actually like them?

[gizmo]

I own several sabatti’s and FAIR’s including a double and I love them. Great guns and very accurate

 

[Rare Breed]

Between the changes to stock length, sights, handedness, load development, etc, I now tend to lean with the others that suggested you sell this gun and get something that suits you better. A lefty double rifle is very difficult to sell, so is a very short stocked double rifle. If I were you I'd go find a lefty, short stocked double rifle and save yourself tons of heartache and expense. You could probably find a British double in your dimensions and with lefty configuration (or a German gun) for slightly more than you paid for the Sabatti. I can't emphasize enough how long it will take you to get this rifle sorted out and how much money you're going to throw into it all while making it unsaleable to the next guy.

You need to trust our extensive experience on this. It has been hard earned. I have owned 8 and yes one Sabatti that came from Ken Owen so all good. You are correct shoot the gun first to see what it does. Please make no mistake about this though…LOP, Weight for caliber and regulation are critical in a DR. A 450-400 will have felt recoil similar to a 375 if LOP and proper weight are there. If once you shoot the gun you are unhappy with it then sell it given the great price you bought the gun. When you buy a DR unless you are lucky it the gun has been reregulated or factory ammo gives acceptable groupings which for me is 2 inches at 50 yards you need to reload. Many of us can supply you with our experience and recommended loads…I certainly will be happy to help in that area. Please don’t mistake our wanting you to have fun and success with anyone being negative. @rookhawk is a good friend and knowing him he just wants you to have success and enjoy the experience. Welcome to the DR club!!!!!

 

[Rare Breed]

You could, or you could listen to what I wrote. Hornady disagrees with what I said. I’d suggest you do some digging on this forum to understand ICI and Kynoch original velocities and pressures. Your sabatti is modern and might handle the incorrect modern hand loads. No original gun will. The original loads produce 65% the recoil and are less likely to break your gun.

I 100% agree on what @rookhawk is saying here please listen

 

[Aiden204]

I own several sabatti’s and FAIR’s including a double and I love them. Great guns and very accurate

Is your FAIR. A double? Originally i was going to order a FAIR as the price for some reason in Canada is significantly cheaper than in the states. I just couldnt find enough about them online so I was hesitant to purchase

 

[gizmo]

Is your FAIR. A double? Originally i was going to order a FAIR as the price for some reason in Canada is significantly cheaper than in the states. I just couldnt find enough about them online so I was hesitant to purchase

Yessir it is. I am very familiar with the IFG guns. My son was sponsored by IFG back when he used to shoot competitive sporting clays. I have shot and own a bunch of them and have shot a lot of Sabatti doubles over the years. Everything from 9.3 to 470 NE. I have never shot the Sabatti 500 NE but pretty much everything else. They are well regulated though most, not all but most, are regulated with Hornady ammo which I despise. My Fair was regulated with S&B which is great for plinking and general boar hunting etc… I hand load for it for any serious Hunting and it didn’t really take much to get to a load that shoots well and at the same velocity as factory loads.

 

[Aiden204]

Yessir it is. I am very familiar with the IFG guns. My son was sponsored by IFG back when he used to shoot competitive sporting clays. I have shot and own a bunch of them and have shot a lot of Sabatti doubles over the years. Everything from 9.3 to 470 NE. I have never shot the Sabatti 500 NE but pretty much everything else. They are well regulated though most, not all but most, are regulated with Hornady ammo which I despise. My Fair was regulated with S&B which is great for plinking and general boar hunting etc… I hand load for it for any serious Hunting and it didn’t really take much to get to a load that shoots well and at the same velocity as factory loads.

Nice! Do you have any pics of it by chance? I may still end up picking one up in time. I just wish they had calibres above 9.3. It would make for an interesting gun to have though.


Not a fan of the Hornady DGS? May I ask why? I have no skin in the game and have noticed a few others express their dislike for it, but I havent heard much reason for why

 

[AZDAVE]

Just seeing this thread. I owned at some point a 45/70 and 450NE sabatti's. Both of mine shot well. They were cabela era double so I got very lucky.My friend bought the 45/70 from me and he also purchased a 450NE. and to get them to shoot he had to do almost exactly what @rookhawk said would need to be done (Due to his LOP being 14 and mine being 15 3/8). If you are going to develop your own loads I HIGHLY RECOMMEND getting Grahm Wright's shoot english double and read it cover to cover at least 5 times before you seat the first primer. Loading for doubles is different than anything you have loaded for before!!!! I wouldn't even think about restocking the rifle. have the current stock reworked, along with new sights and cast change etc.

I am in the same camp as @rookhawk and @ActionBob on this subject. I can see you want to do this yourself but you will save yourself money and many head aches down the road if you just send to to Ken Owens and have him sort it out.

 

[gizmo]

Nice! Do you have any pics of it by chance? I may still end up picking one up in time. I just wish they had calibres above 9.3. It would make for an interesting gun to have though.


Not a fan of the Hornady DGS? May I ask why? I have no skin in the game and have noticed a few others express their dislike for it, but I havent heard much reason for why

So here is pics of my FAIR as well as my daughter with a Sabatti double.
On Hornady the short answer is I almost ended up lion crap and almost lost a buffalo (partially on that one. Bullet performance was crap but admittedly on the Buffalo shot placement wasn’t good either. The lion, that was 100% faulty ammunition) all due to Hornady DGX and S. There is a full hunt report on here where I describe in detail what all happened but I will NEVER trust my life to Hornady ammo again. It’s garbage, they know it and vehemently deny it. It’s a long story but many many people have similar experiences with that garbage and I wouldn’t use it for anything other than target practice. Even then I don’t want to buy any of that crap and support them with my pocket book after my experiences.

 

[Aiden204]

So here is pics of my FAIR as well as my daughter with a Sabatti double.
On Hornady the short answer is I almost ended up lion crap and almost lost a buffalo (partially on that one. Bullet performance was crap but admittedly on the Buffalo shot placement wasn’t good either. The lion, that was 100% faulty ammunition) all due to Hornady DGX and S. There is a full hunt report on here where I describe in detail what all happened but I will NEVER trust my life to Hornady ammo again. It’s garbage, they know it and vehemently deny it. It’s a long story but many many people have similar experiences with that garbage and I wouldn’t use it for anything other than target practice. Even then I don’t want to buy any of that crap and support them with my pocket book after my experiences.

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The fair seems like a decent value proposition and something I wouldnt have any fears of using. Thanks man!

As for the ammo, duly noted. Ill have to go find the post and read through it. Due to ammo scarcity i’d planned to reload regardless

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

@Aideb204 I understand where you are coming from. Been there, done that on other things.

All the preceding advice is true but you now have a Sabatti double rifle in 450/400. Great cartridge and many people have great luck with their Sabatti’s. Some do not. Hopefully, yours will be a good rifle.

Do you have a copy of Shooting the British Double, 4th edition? If not, buy one and sturdy it!

Next, you need a chronograph. I recommend the Garmin Zero since they are so easy to use.

Then a logbook to record each and every shot, its velocity, and point of impact. After shooting, transfer the data into a spreadsheet such as Excel. This will provide you the means to analyze your data. I use the sort function in Excel to group by different variables such as powder, bullet weight, velocity, POI / regulation group size and so on.

Range log book

A short pencil makes for a long memory...

Gathering data

Don’t spend any money on the rifle until you find out if it will regulate with your loads. Start with something close to the Hornady factory ammo that was probably used to regulate these rifles. Go up a grain for four shots, and down a grain. This is a ladder and within a few groups you will discover which direction in velocity to proceed.

Note: Swapping triggers from right to left is a simple task for a competent gunsmith. I doubt a Sabatti has any cast in the stock either.

Changing anything a double such as length of pull may change the regulation. I tried this on a double that I had the stock shortened by over an inch. For this I added length temporarily and shot groups for analysis. My double did not change the regulation size. Yours may.

Once you figure how to change regulation group size by velocity, you will have the knowledge you need to “own” your Sabatti.

Now, all the above stated, $4,000 will buy a very nice magazine rifle.

But, that would not be a double rifle! I love my bolt guns. Simple and effective! I can make them whistle Dixie or shoot pin holes at long range. For my upcoming Tuskless hunt, I am taking one rifle, my Trusty Heym double. Left behind will be at least three superb bolt actions in .375 H&H, .416 Rem, and .450 Rigby. Those and another three or four dangerous game rifles will weep as my Trusty Heym goes afield once again. It’s a double rifle after all!

 

[Aiden204]

@Aideb204 I understand where you are coming from. Been there, done that on other things.

All the preceding advice is true but you now have a Sabatti double rifle in 450/400. Great cartridge and many people have great luck with their Sabatti’s. Some do not. Hopefully, yours will be a good rifle.

Do you have a copy of Shooting the British Double, 4th edition? If not, buy one and sturdy it!
View attachment 708036

Next, you need a chronograph. I recommend the Garmin Zero since they are so easy to use.
View attachment 708035

Then a logbook to record each and every shot, its velocity, and point of impact. After shooting, transfer the data into a spreadsheet such as Excel. This will provide you the means to analyze your data. I use the sort function in Excel to group by different variables such as powder, bullet weight, velocity, POI / regulation group size and so on.

Range log book
View attachment 708037

A short pencil makes for a long memory...
View attachment 708038

Gathering data
View attachment 708041
View attachment 708043

Don’t spend any money on the rifle until you find out if it will regulate with your loads. Start with something close to the Hornady factory ammo that was probably used to regulate these rifles. Go up a grain for four shots, and down a grain. This is a ladder and within a few groups you will discover which direction in velocity to proceed.

Note: Swapping triggers from right to left is a simple task for a competent gunsmith. I doubt a Sabatti has any cast in the stock either.

Changing anything a double such as length of pull may change the regulation. I tried this on a double that I had the stock shortened by over an inch. For this I added length temporarily and shot groups for analysis. My double did not change the regulation size. Yours may.

Once you figure how to change regulation group size by velocity, you will have the knowledge you need to “own” your Sabatti.

Now, all the above stated, $4,000 will buy a very nice magazine rifle.

But, that would not be a double rifle! I love my bolt guns. Simple and effective! I can make them whistle Dixie or shoot pin holes at long range. For my upcoming Tuskless hunt, I am taking one rifle, my Trusty Heym double. Left behind will be at least three superb bolt actions in .375 H&H, .416 Rem, and .450 Rigby. Those and another three or four dangerous game rifles will weep as my Trusty Heym goes afield once again. It’s a double rifle after all!

I really appreciate you taking the time to write this out good sir. I will buy the book you & others have recommended immediately. This post is quite helpful & encouraging.


I have a few decent bolt actions including a Pre 64 M70 in 375 H&H, a Custom BRNO in 500 A-Square & an old custom 458 made by Iver Henriksen. I hope the double rifle will prove to be a great addition to my ever growing stable of safari rifles. Good luck on your hunt!

 

[gizmo]

The fair seems like a decent value proposition and something I wouldnt have any fears of using. Thanks man!

As for the ammo, duly noted. Ill have to go find the post and read through it. Due to ammo scarcity i’d planned to reload regardless

The FAIR is an excellent rifle for the money but don’t snub the Sabatti. You have a very nice rifle that will give you years of faithful and reliable service. My dream gun (realistic dream gun as a H&H or Rigby will never be obtainable for me) is a Sabatti big 5 in 470 NE or I actually love the 450 NE.

 

[rookhawk]

@Mark A Ouellette post above was the best post of the month on AH. I recommend anyone trying to regulate a double rifle’s load study that post thoroughly.

 

[Altitude sickness]

Mark is an analytical thinker. loading and DRs are right up his alley.

 

[gizmo]

@Mark A Ouellette post above was the best post of the month on AH. I recommend anyone trying to regulate a double rifle’s load study that post thoroughly.

Yip, Mark definitely won the internet. He's a wealth of information. I got sooooo very lucky with mine, it will eat most anything you throw at it. I've heard some nightmare stories about trying to get loads to regulate from a double and I'm so grateful I didn't have to deal with that.

 

[Aaron N]

Thats the beauty of a declining currency I suppose. The old boy’s well respected for making quality rifles up here. He builds ground up mausers and other rifles for DG hunting, but starting price is around 15-20k so for now its out of my price range. We did talk about simply getting the stock’s cheekrest removed and the stock changed for a lefty, not sure what to do, better wait until I see how it shoots eh?

Who’s this?

Edit, I saw you mention Chris. Chris Griesbach?

 

[Aiden204]

Who’s this?

Edit, I saw you mention Chris. Chris Griesbach?

Yessir!

 

[Aaron N]

Yessir!

He does well priced good work. But 2k for a stock seems low. Maybe that’s excluding the blank and the pentographing (he farms that out)?

 

[Aiden204]

He does well priced good work. But 2k for a stock seems low. Maybe that’s excluding the blank and the pentographing (he farms that out)?

Yeasir, that was just the labour portion. If i go blank hunting id imagine itll probably about double haha

 

[BonUm16]

Aiden,

Yeasir, that was just the labour portion. If i go blank hunting id imagine itll probably about double haha

Aiden, you have another talented, reasonably priced double-gun stock man in your country as well. His name is Chris Dawe and his shop is Stillwater Restorations. Just an FYI if you decide you want another option in the future. Enjoy your new gun. Hope it proves out for you.

Stillwater Restorations | Custom Stockwork, Refinishing and Minor Repair