Politics

[Brent in Az]

Of course you don't...
But it works both ways,
You have no idea what you are talking about and blinded by your bigotry.

Bigotry? Because I have an informed opinion that differs....LOL
Don't go away mad, just go away.

 

[John Wasmuth]

Of course you don't...
But it works both ways,
You have no idea what you are talking about and blinded by your bigotry.

And this, this is exactly what I see, with nothing to back up “you have no idea what you are talking about” you simply decide his opinion is wrong. Got any proof he’s never been to Finland? Other than what you think? I didn’t like Germany, does that mean I haven’t been there?

 

[Red Leg]

Anytime Red Leg and I exchange words, Tundra Tiger always has to pile on in defense of his forum man crush.
Until that changes, I will do what I need to do in defense of myself. Eye for an eye.
I suggest you stay out of it.

I have a better idea. There is nothing personal in any of this from my perspective. People offer opinions and when I disagree - much of it based on personal experience - I explain why and offer evidence to support my reasoning. That seems to bother a couple of contributors but you particularly. Read through your last several posts.

You seem to have noticed that their are several here, who have a similar experience set with whom I generally agree on most topics. Heck, even @BSO Dave and I agree probably at the 75-80% level though we do have trouble with that 20-25% - so much so that I have thrown up my hands a couple of times. But, I respect the quality of the arguments he makes.

I would suggest rather than personally lashing out at whomever has frustrated you most recently that you offer reasoned counter argument. That is the nature of debate. I have no doubt we would all benefit from it. You will have no doubt when I disagree with one of your assertions, but it won’t be personal. Moreover, prove me wrong on an issue and I will at least grudgingly admit it.

 

[Graham Hunter]

I we wonder why Politics is so bad? And why the Country is going downhill rapidly.

 

[Brent in Az]

I have a better idea. There is nothing personal in any of this from my perspective. People offer opinions and when I disagree - much of it based on personal experience - I explain why and offer evidence to support my reasoning. That seems to bother a couple of contributors but you particularly. Read through your last several posts.

You seem to have noticed that their are several here, who have a similar experience set with whom I generally agree on most topics. Heck, even @BSO Dave and I agree probably at the 75-80% level though we do have trouble with that 20-25% - so much so that I have thrown up my hands a couple of times. But, I respect the quality of the arguments he makes.

I would suggest rather than personally lashing out at whomever has frustrated you most recently that you offer reasoned counter argument. That is the nature of debate. I have no doubt we would all benefit from it. You will have no doubt when I disagree with one of your assertions, but it won’t be personal. Moreover, prove me wrong on an issue and I will at least grudgingly admit it.

You are an intelligent man, Red Leg. You are smart enough to see how things play out here. Time and again. Don't try and gaslight the situation to make me look like the bad guy in all of this.
I offered up statistics to support my opinion, but this simply goes way beyond that, and you know it.

 

[Red Leg]

You are an intelligent man, Red Leg. You are smart enough to see how things play out here. Time and again. Don't try and gaslight the situation to make me look like the bad guy in all of this.
I offered up statistics to support my opinion, but this simply goes way beyond that, and you know it.

You did. I acknowledged them and offered additional statistics. Collectively they offer a different, and I think more complete perspective. Finland, like the rest of Western Europe, does not have a Socialist economic system. It is different than ours, and it offers a larger safety net through higher taxes. But it also offers a lower cost of living and far less demanding work reality for most of its citizens.

I did not say it is a variation of capitalism in which I would have wanted to pursue my career, because my ambitions were better served in our less organized economic model. However, I am not sure that is true of most of my fellow citizens.

My only point is that there are a lot of stops between a true laissez-faire economy (which we most certainly do not have) and the socialism of Karl Marx (which the Finns also do not have).

 

[Brent in Az]

Venezuela not happy. Everytime I hear the name Guyana, I'm reminded of the whackjob Jim Jones, and the sad ending of so many people.

https://defence-blog.com/us-fighter-jets-over-guyana-send-clear-message-to-venezuela/

 

[WAB]

Take a break, Cupcake.

Talk about needing to take a break. Your posts are offensive and getting worse. You respond to a civil statement that disagrees with your own with insults and name calling, all the while refusing to coherently articulate a position.

You do know that it is possible to carry on a respectful conversation with someone you disagree with?

 

[Brent in Az]

Talk about needing to take a break. Your posts are offensive and getting worse. You respond to a civil statement that disagrees with your own with insults and name calling, all the while refusing to coherently articulate a position.

You do know that it is possible to carry on a respectful conversation with someone you disagree with?

Gee.....another crony coning around to berate me. Color me shocked?
At least we have something in common, finding each other offensive. Apparently you have the tunnel vision goggles on.
A respectful conversation around here with some of the monkey pilers......LOL.
I give what I get.

 

[LivingTheDream]

Before this thread gets shut down...

I believe Finland has a pretty strict immigration policy, or at least it did once upon a time. Given the smaller population size is this part of the reason they are able to provide the social programs at the time.

And what I mean by that is they accept immigrants that have something to offer and it is controlled. I think part of the issue that we are seeing today in the US with inflated costs of Healthcare and insurance is based on the fact that there is a larger non-paying base that has to be supported from a smaller percentage of tax payers.

I could be completely wrong on this. I think most US tax payers would probably begrudgingly be ok with more social programs and higher taxes if that was what the money was actually allocated for.

 

[Brent in Az]

Before this thread gets shut down...

I believe Finland has a pretty strict immigration policy, or at least it did once upon a time. Given the smaller population size is this part of the reason they are able to provide the social programs at the time.

And what I mean by that is they accept immigrants that have something to offer and it is controlled. I think part of the issue that we are seeing today in the US with inflated costs of Healthcare and insurance is based on the fact that there is a larger non-paying base that has to be supported from a smaller percentage of tax payers.

I could be completely wrong on this. I think most US tax payers would probably begrudgingly be ok with more social programs and higher taxes if that was what the money was actually allocated for.

Maybe the Finn's are happy, maybe they have not experienced anything different? Speculative, I know.
The USA population is approx 60 times greater. I can't imagine any American taxpayer wanting to give up 50% of their income, in addition to a 25% value added tax on various goods and services.
Logistically speaking, implementing that social model in the USA would be a nightmare. IMO

It's easy to rationalize the vitriol over the Finland post, is because I made it. If someone other then me made the same statement, it would be a total non issue .

 

[John Wasmuth]

There actually is a high rate of depression that is believed to be caused by long, dark, brutal winters.

 

[Brent in Az]

There actually is a high rate of depression that is believed to be caused by long, dark, brutal winters.

I live in Arizona. No such thing as long dark winters in the desert.....LOL.

 

[WAB]

Gee.....another crony coning around to berate me. Color me shocked?
At least we have something in common, finding each other offensive. Apparently you have the tunnel vision goggles on.
A respectful conversation around here with some of the monkey pilers......LOL.
I give what I get.

I rest my case.

 

[Brent in Az]

I rest my case.

Do you feel better now?

 

[LivingTheDream]

Maybe the Finn's are happy, maybe they have not experienced anything different? Speculative, I know.
The USA population is approx 60 times greater. I can't imagine any American taxpayer wanting to give up 50% of their income, in addition to a 25% value added tax on various goods and services.
Logistically speaking, implementing that social model in the USA would be a nightmare. IMO

It's easy to rationalize the vitriol over the Finland post, is because I made it. If someone other then me made the same statement, it would be a total non issue .

I mean realistically, US actual taxpayers probably aren't too far behind. We have Federal tax, SS Withholding, Medicare tax, some states have state tax...that's on your paycheck, capital gains tax on investment, property taxes, sales tax at the state level...it might not be 50% but I am guessing once you are solidly in middle class, you are probably getting hit for close to 40 to 45% when you add it all up. But I am guessing we don't have the same level of social programs that Finland does.

I think you could also argue that Finland isn't running as big of a deficit as we are to maintain those social programs.

Again just kind of thinking out loud, but seems like we are missing something, at least some of the value, that we are paying for our taxes.

 

[Brent in Az]

I mean realistically, US actual taxpayers probably aren't too far behind. We have Federal tax, SS Withholding, Medicare tax, some states have state tax...that's on your paycheck, capital gains tax on investment, property taxes, sales tax at the state level...it might not be 50% but I am guessing once you are solidly in middle class, you are probably getting hit for close to 40 to 45% when you add it all up. But I am guessing we don't have the same level of social programs that Finland does.

I think you could also argue that Finland isn't running as big of a deficit as we are to maintain those social programs.

Again just kind of thinking out loud, but seems like we are missing something, at least some of the value, that we are paying for our taxes.

You made a valid point about immigration into Finland. They do not have 20 million illegal immigrants to factor into the equation.
The Finn's may get more bang for the tax dollar with free health care and education, but less disposable income compared to a lower taxed society.
I don't really know what all the checks and balances are?

 

[WAB]

Do you feel better now?

I’ve felt fine all along, but I do feel sorry for you. This really is a pretty decent bunch of guys whom you are doing your absolute best to alienate. I sincerely hope you have a better day tomorrow.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

View attachment 604882

Sounds familiar.

 

[Brent in Az]

I’ve felt fine all along, but I do feel sorry for you. This really is a pretty decent bunch of guys whom you are doing your absolute best to alienate. I sincerely hope you have a better day tomorrow.

Is this the same group of guys that take shots at me whenever an argument ensues with a particular member, or demand a respectful interaction but don't reciprocate?
I think you have a very skewed sense of reality, and are quite biased in your assessment.
I sincerely hope you have a less judgemental day tomorrow.