Thoughts on type of camps

[375er]

What am I missing? If there’s not daily laundry, chef cooked meals, bed being made, etc, all the stuff that goes in to the fancy camps why wouldn’t it be cheaper?

Or is all that stuff included and we’re just kind of playing pretend and going to sleep in a fancy tent at night?

Im asking sincerely. I’m trying to learn about all this stuff.

I think there’s a lot of DIY guys here in the states that don’t give Africa a chance because of three things, in this order.
1: They don’t want to be guided
2: They don’t want to stay in fancy place
3: They don’t want to be waited on and catered to.

Personally I’m just going to except those things and do it and it makes it to where my wife can come and hopefully love it, so I get it and it certainly has its place and obviously that’s how most people want it.

I wish there was an option to take the whole lodge part out of the equation, I’d be all over that. For example, if I could show up with everything but water and I mean everything, my bow, food, clothes, shelter, stove, all of it. If that took a 10 day plains game hunt from $8500 to $5500 I think you have guys fighting over it.
Maybe this option exists and I just haven’t found it? Maybe theres not that much money to be saved? Am I crazy or just uneducated?

I think to answer your question; you likley could not provide your own tent and food for 3K after all the transportion costs involved. If you are going to travel that far and experience all the things there are to found $3,000 should not make or break a trip. There are so many more variables involved. Chose the experience you want and if you have to watch every dime stay home for a few more years so you can truly relax and enjoy it.

 

[K-man]

I can't imagine the logistics of hauling camping gear etc to Africa through multiple plane changes and layovers. I don't need anything relating to fancy in camp but I am seasoned (old) enough to know I can hunt better/harder over a ten to 14 day hunt if i don't need to worry about creature comfort when we get back to camp. So I require a decent bed/cot, meals prepared and a bit of laundry done. My Mrs requires that I be able to check in almost every day while gone, so internet or cell service is appreciated. Everything else is icing and appreciated. After you have been you appreciate your funds provide much needed income for a large camp staff for a very small amount of money. When in Rome....

 

[IdaRam]

An interesting question posed by Lex Strauss. This is a topic some friends and I discussed after a trip to SA a number of years ago. The hunt was really enjoyable and quite successful, but it really could have been even more incredible with a tented camp. I’ll relate the story briefly as an illustration of what I believe would make a SA tented safari successful as opposed to just a gimmick.
Our group was hunting a really mixed bag of animals that required a broad diversity of habitat and both day and night hunting. Some of the animals were not available on any of the properties owned or leased by the outfitter. Here’s a short list of some of the animals desired. Mountain Reedbuck, Klipspringer, Kudu, Serval, Caracal, Civet, Genet, Honey Badger, Water Mongoose, White Tailed Mongoose, bushbuck and some other fairly common plains game.
We ended up hunting mountain country in the Waterburg Mountains and low country that consisted of a mixture of thorn scrub typical of the Limpopo and cultivated land. The outfitter had secured permission to hunt multiple properties in both the mountains and the lowland area totaling about 30,000 acres in the mountains and probably close to that in the lowland. This area was about 3 hours drive from the outfitters lodge, so not an option for a daily commute.
Several of the properties in the mountains had unoccupied homes on them and we used several of them to stay in or grab a shower but had to bring all our own “stuff”. Over the course of 14 days we just camped out in the bush most of the time. Build a fire, have a braii, throw down a sleeping pad and a blanket and grab some sleep. Stop for lunch, make some sandwiches, have a nap and go back to hunting. It had a really unique feeling of “adventure” without any real camp or lodge and I truly enjoyed it. But it wasn’t without it’s challenges, such as dealing with game as it was shot. After a couple weeks of this, a chef prepared meal, shower and comfortable bed were quite welcome.
Back to the OP, in my opinion this would have been an ideal situation for a tented camp operation, even it were quite a bit more rustic and not as “full service” as what most safari outfitters provide. Having a fixed base with some infrastructure such as kitchen and cook, shower, skinning shed along with a tent and cot to crawl into would have been about perfect.
Punchline, and I’m going to be very blunt and direct - no offense intended, if the intent of an outfitter was to attempt to replicate the experience I’ve personally had in Zimbabwe and Mozambique in a tented safari camp, my answer is a Hard NO. Unless you’ve got 100,000 acres with free ranging lion, elephant, cape buffalo and leopard I think this would come off like trying to sell knock-off ladies hand bags. However, if the intent is to offer a unique, value-added experience that helps keeps costs competitive and you are catering to clientele that want to rough it a bit and maybe participate more actively in the camp/hunt, I think there might be a real market for that. If it felt a bit more like deer camp in north America, but was a safari in Africa, that might be kinda cool. Certainly not for everyone, but done right I bet it could work.

 

[CRowe]

You may be right, but I’ll be checking the same bag that I do when I fly to Alaska with everything I need for 10 days on the ground on my own? Is checking a bag on a flight to africa that much more expensive?

If my wife doesn’t want to go back again after our first trip, I without a doubt would much rather bring my own gear and sleep on the ground, wear the same clothes for 10 days, take a whore bath in a titanium cook pot, eat my dehydrated food and put that (theoretic) 3k toward shipping my animals home. And if anybody has an outfit like that send me a PM!

 

[Happy Myles]

I yearn for an adventurous environment while on safari. Usually this includes tented camps in wild country. I enjoy the chances for hyena whooping in the darkness, lion moaning beside my canvas walls, maybe hippo grunting as they leave the river to feed. Things that go bump in the night.
Once i surprised a hyena stealing my bar of soap just outside my tent opening. A pride of lion caused camp help to toss my shower water into the air they ran one way and the lions ran the other way. An elephant tripped on a tent rope. Another time a herd of Cape buffalo wandered through campi smelling like a livestock yard. Or just quiet night sounds. All important to me.

 

[steve white]

A tented camp in Africa is far from roughing it. They usually have a mattress bed, toilet, shower with at least river water, good food on time, cold drinks, daily laundry, and everything to make your hunt just hunting and not all the grunt work/time consuming after kill activities, etc. that tire you out back home. I LOVE IT! Puts elk camps back home to shame, spoils you rotten! Worth every penny! You are fresh to go everyday and not needing a nap to get by. A tent just lets you hear more of the outer world. Tenting is still nice by American hunting standards. And it just feels so safariesque. There is one thing it will not have and that is a/c.
Oh, and the only TV will be "bush TV" (campfire)

 

[steve white]

Might add another layer to the discussion--dining facilities. Dining under open thatch allows bugs to circle the overhead light like the rings of Saturn, with the occasional "fake wasp-moth" falling into your drink. I actually prefer this to the sanitized, outdoors removed closed dining room 5 star experience. YMMV

 

[ActionBob]

Now this is coming from a guy that hasn’t been to Africa yet. But if it cut a decent amount of the price off I would definitely be up for it. Hell I’d bring my own shelter and sleep on the ground if the price is right. That’s how I do it all across the country here in the US.

Me too. If/when I go on safari, it will be to hunt game that I can’t hunt here and to get an experience, not to prove how wealthy and pampered I am. I can stay in a fancy lodge anywhere. On safari I’d prefer that time and resources go to the hunt.

You may be right, but I’ll be checking the same bag that I do when I fly to Alaska with everything I need for 10 days on the ground on my own? Is checking a bag on a flight to africa that much more expensive?

If my wife doesn’t want to go back again after our first trip, I without a doubt would much rather bring my own gear and sleep on the ground, wear the same clothes for 10 days, take a whore bath in a titanium cook pot, eat my dehydrated food and put that (theoretic) 3k toward shipping my animals home. And if anybody has an outfit like that send me a PM!

Wild Africa;
Ok you guys haven't been over and probably are just not going to "get it". Obviously you have not researched the details of what makes trophy hunting the best viable use of the real wild ares. Nor how things really work in those camps nor even on South Africa. As for the wild areas, the community relies on employment by the hunting camps. It seems extreme, but there were 4 clients in camp and 21 employees taking care of us, running the camp, and keeping the hunting operations going.

If you ever get to the point of wanting to import an elephant or lion trophy in particular, but others as well. A major requirement for this to happen is a proper "Enhancement Program" be in place. This includes anti poaching efforts and a huge part of that is to get "buy in" and support of the surrounding or local communities. A big way to do that is to provide employment. Free meat, building and funding local schools, medical clinics, water wells, etc. So you may think its ridiculous to employ so many (I did) but there is definitely method to the madness. Not only do these remote camps need to care for and bring in supplies for the clients, they also need to do that for employees. It costs money! The logistics of you getting yourself supplied for a 21 day hunt, or even 10 days, half way around the World going through multiple airports, not going to happen cost effectively. Not only that but the Outfitter and PH is required by law, and they are tasked with keeping you reasonably safe. You do not only have to think about a few bears, there are multiple species of predators ready and able to eat you, non predators very capable of killing you and carrying the attitude to do so, poison snakes, spiders, bugs, plants.

 

[ActionBob]

@Trail Rated @CRowe
South Africa and other places that have infrastructure in place;
The Outfitters are not likely to tell you this or admit to it, but it does not really cost all that much to have basic staff in camp. You tending to yourself, not requiring laundry, not having a cook, and especially bringing your own tent to sleep in... all that will really just gum up the works and not save the Outfitter any money. He has a sunk cost into his camp whether using it or not. He's going to have a cook preparing meals for him and possibly other PH'S and clients in camp. The people who do laundry and clean your accommodations are not costly and probably rely of tips for a good portion of their income. Plus they hope to get a little meat although in South Africa that will likely just be the Offal as the meat is sold or stays with the farmer who owned the animal. You and the PH will eat the prime parts, but the majority is all part of the finances.

Part of the enjoyment in South Africa is the various accommodations. You may travel to various places and even stay in a fine old Colonial house, a tent, a grass chalet, and said grass hut may likely have ac and on Suite bathroom. But again, it is there, you may as well use it.

If you really want to bring your own bathroom, throw in a Bumper Dumper seat

 

[Just Gina]

@Trail Rated @CRowe
If you really want to bring your own bathroom, throw in a Bumper Dumper seat

Oh my!!

 

[ActionBob]

Oh my!!

Well Babydoll, after you being the first lady in camp in over 10 years, the Outfitter did say when he gets another woman in camp, he's going to get a little portable toilet to bring with on the truck I thought that would be thoughtful of him, realizing it will be placed behind an appropriate ant hill or thick bush when the need arises

 

[IdaRam]

If you really want to bring your own bathroom, throw in a Bumper Dumper seat

Oh my!!

And he’s all yours Gina! You must be so proud!

 

[Just Gina]

And he’s all yours Gina! You must be so proud!

Haha! I almost spat out my coffee when I read that! Thanks for the much needed laugh!!!

 

[Deepfork]

My 2¢. This may be an age oriented decision. In my 70's, the days of me crapping in an outhouse, sleeping in a bunk or on a cot with bugs and a dirt floor are over. I don't need a chocolate on my pillow, a swimming pool and four star accommodations, just a comfortable bed and decent bathroom/shower. Others MMV.

This!

Everyone is looking for something different and has different expectations and that's great. Many options are available in Africa.

I've gone days hunting, living off what I carried with me and not seeing another person. Ive gone months without a hot meal or a hot shower in the military.

I have only taken one hunting trip to Africa, and already have another one booked. I am a hunter, but at this point in my life these trips are also how I choose to spend my leisure time and extra money with my family. No way my wife and daughter in laws would get on the plane if anyone mentioned a tent!

I vote for hot showers every night and a chef!!

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

Hello Lex, thank you for this opportunity to feed back. To me and my group the ambiance of the camp is by far the most important. Without writing an essay here are the criteria. I would pay over the odds for this, not less:
1 Tents, comfy bed, crisp sheets, mozzie killer.
2. En-suite shower and loo
3. Hangup for shirts and open shelves for clothes
4. Far in the bush, no human noise, no light.
5. Perpetual fire
6. Wooden and canvas camp chairs, no metal
7. No blue anywhere, or plastic
8. White or cream crockery, no colours
9. Interesting snacks with pre-dinner drinks around the fire like nyimos, boiled peanuts, fried kapenta, impala balls, etc
10 . Good food. Real coffee.
11. Paraffin lights everywhere.
12. Thatched central area.
13. Piping hot water for shower.

Please don't hesitate to ask questions or PM me for price tolerance etc.
Regards,
Kevin

 

[CRowe]

Bob,
You’re probably right to a degree that I don’t “get it”. I haven’t been yet. But I’m here trying to learn as I go. I don’t know all the details but I’ve got a general idea of the impact and importance of the where my money goes that I’d spend on one of these hunts. I don’t think any part of it is ridiculous and I’m not in any way trying or suggesting that the way things are being done are in anyway wrong or unnecessary. I’m excited that I can come hunt and stay in a great place, eat great food and help out the local people. It really is a great value for what you get.

I never suggested not hunting with a PH, I understand that’s law and even if it wasn’t I’d want to be with a guy that knew what was going on over there. But you guys acting like it’s impossible to put everything you need to hunt for 10 days in one pack and put it on a airplane makes me think you haven’t done it and maybe just don’t “get it”. And it’s no big deal if you have or haven’t, it’s not a big weenie contest. But if it was an option I can and i would.

The OP asked if anyone would be interested in a more stripped down hunt. Yes, I am. But like you said, if I have to pay for all the cushy stuff anyway, I’ll use it.
I don’t know what these outfitters have and how many people they have to pay. If there’s a guy that only employs a few people and runs a stripped down hunt at a lower cost that I have to provide my own gear and my main contribution is the meat from my animals is that so bad? None of what I’m suggesting is an attempt to shortchange anybody or take food out of anybody mouth. It’s nothing more than how I would like to do it if possible.
As for the dangers of sleeping on the ground I don’t have any doubt in what you say. But people have been sleeping on the ground over there longer than they haven’t.

Im glad I found this site and appreciate all the input and help I’ve got in the short time I’ve been here.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

Hello Lex, thank you for this opportunity to feed back. To me and my group the ambiance of the camp is by far the most important. Without writing an essay here are the criteria. I would pay over the odds for this, not less:
1 Tents, comfy bed, crisp sheets, mozzie killer.
2. En-suite shower and loo
3. Hangup for shirts and open shelves for clothes
4. Far in the bush, no human noise, no light.
5. Perpetual fire
6. Wooden and canvas camp chairs, no metal
7. No blue anywhere, or plastic
8. White or cream crockery, no colours
9. Interesting snacks with pre-dinner drinks around the fire like nyimos, boiled peanuts, fried kapenta, impala balls, etc
10 . Good food. Real coffee.
11. Paraffin lights everywhere.
12. Thatched central area.
13. Piping hot water for shower.

Please don't hesitate to ask questions or PM me for price tolerance etc.
Regards,
Kevin

14. Yes there must be laundry, but only if you have enough water to rinse it to get to soap out. Dip and pack laundry is terrible, especially if ironed, it gives you sores too.

 

[ActionBob]

Bob,
You’re probably right to a degree that I don’t “get it”. I haven’t been yet. But I’m here trying to learn as I go. I don’t know all the details but I’ve got a general idea of the impact and importance of the where my money goes that I’d spend on one of these hunts. I don’t think any part of it is ridiculous and I’m not in any way trying or suggesting that the way things are being done are in anyway wrong or unnecessary. I’m excited that I can come hunt and stay in a great place, eat great food and help out the local people. It really is a great value for what you get.

I never suggested not hunting with a PH, I understand that’s law and even if it wasn’t I’d want to be with a guy that knew what was going on over there. But you guys acting like it’s impossible to put everything you need to hunt for 10 days in one pack and put it on a airplane makes me think you haven’t done it and maybe just don’t “get it”. And it’s no big deal if you have or haven’t, it’s not a big weenie contest. But if it was an option I can and i would.

The OP asked if anyone would be interested in a more stripped down hunt. Yes, I am. But like you said, if I have to pay for all the cushy stuff anyway, I’ll use it.
I don’t know what these outfitters have and how many people they have to pay. If there’s a guy that only employs a few people and runs a stripped down hunt at a lower cost that I have to provide my own gear and my main contribution is the meat from my animals is that so bad? None of what I’m suggesting is an attempt to shortchange anybody or take food out of anybody mouth. It’s nothing more than how I would like to do it if possible.
As for the dangers of sleeping on the ground I don’t have any doubt in what you say. But people have been sleeping on the ground over there longer than they haven’t.

Im glad I found this site and appreciate all the input and help I’ve got in the short time I’ve been here.

I did take your comment "1: They don’t want to be guided." ... to mean you didn't want to be guided or have a PH.

And yes I have been on hunts in Alaska, Canada and the Western US where you pack in what you need but they tend to be shorter hunts. At least for me. It is so far to go and expensive to get there when traveling to Africa. Not just cost in money but the time on a plane and in airports. It was a lot easier and cheaper to fly to Unalakleet AK. And I could not imagine trying to get that load of gear and goods through African airports and actually receiving it at the destination. Not to mention having the success of the trip relying on it!!

I mean there are some airport workers sporting some pretty sexy Victoria Secret bra's my wife formerly owned And a damned expensive Sitca rain coat of mine...

As for stripped down camps, they exist in all levels. A couple few ago the big thing in RSA was No Day Fees hunts. Gives you an idea of costs to run a camp vs profits to be had on animals.

Oh and BTW, you don't "really" get to share your meat because you never really own it. Don't take that wrong, the locals will be very grateful for any meat they recieve and you will have an opportunity in many cases (my experience in Zimbabwe and Tanzania) to hand out meat. But the meat is going to those places whether you share it or not You own the trophies. In South Africa the owner of the animal typically gets the meat or is paid extra for it. It is quite an industry. In the wild places, the Outfitter and/or Game Scout will take charge of the meat. If hunting predators, especially big cats, a lot goes to bait. That big camp staff eats a lot and dries some to take to their families. Big animals and especially multiple big animals will create opportunity to distribute to locals.

I wish you all the best and hope you get to experience the broad range of what Africa has to offer! You are in for a real treat once you get there the first time and then can really broaden the experience by getting to various countries over time I think you will have an interesting Cultural experience as well as the hunting.

 

[CRowe]

Bob, I’m going to send you a PM so I don’t sidetrack this thread.

 

[MarkB]

OMG what an awesome question to get answers for. I am NOT your "normal" safari hunter. I admit and can confirm this after a few safaris. I spend 80+ nights in a tent here at home in BC every fall and love it. My fall hunt starts in early Sept and ends late Nov, I safari all over BC for 3 months following species, openings and rut, so know what I like.

For every safari I have done I asked outfitters for wild, I go to Africa to immerse, become and enjoy Africa and safari. Do not wash laundry daily at home, sit down with silver for meals, and get pampered, I do not safari for them things. In Zim we hunted ele from a "fly camp", tent, hot bucket from a tree wash shower with built gridded floor, fire provided cooking heat, kept us warm and provided ambience. Wayne had to explain the bush babies and eles outside would not harm me. Also stayed in a Zim camp early 2000's, no food variety, no gasoline, no generator all thanks to Mr Mugabe, and I loved it. In Namibia we spent a few nights in a cave, shot a cobra on initial inspection of stove with PH also shot a leopard from that camp, again=awesome.

I asked for this in SA for my last hunt, read my report, specifically for last camp, you can read that I am serious as I had "an episode" with our outfitter when we were left at the Hitgeheim Lodge listening to drunks and city lights and not safari Africa after clearly stating and agreeing on my wants many times before we booked.

I would not expect or ask for any less daily rate, I do expect outfitters to do as they state and I ask long before I get in Africa. I will book with outfits that agree to "roughing it" over fancy.

So for me, a tented camp, away from human noise, road or city lights, other hunters and fancy would be what I like and request. Not spoiled, fancy but comfortable. It still must have hot cooked food (game), table, chairs, bug proof tent, warm comfy bed and "critters" outside. Nightly entertainment will be wild as you can provide Africa, learning from, speaking with, and enjoying all safari offers with a camp fire and our PH.

I have enjoyed that on all safaris, even SA after my blow up. We were moved to a Covid closed for 2 years camp on a hillside, no power, no staff, but buff outside, moneys in camp and lions at the "petting zoo" roaring a few KM away. Loved it.

Again, I am not the normal safari hunter. Make mine as real as Africa in 2023 can get, in a place and at a price I can afford.

MB