Why all the 6.5 Creedmoor Hate?

Nyati

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The 6.5x55 has been used during many years in Scandinavia as a military/hunting cartridge, has has taken all kinds of game, including large moose, I have seen that.

All cartridges work, within their limits.
 

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Anything that can bring newbs into the shooting world is a good thing. When speaking with AR and AK guys, mostly newbs to the game, at my club who are bored with mag dumping, I recommend the 6.5 CM because it just plain works. Little known fact, it didn't really reach its full potential until Hornady copied the 6.5x47 Lapua and switched from large to small rifle primers.
 

Doug3006

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Hate? We’ll maybe a little. Mostly what I’ve read about the cartridge centers on a few key points:

1. For hunting inside 300-400 yards, there’s really nothing that the CM can do that practically dozens of other cartridges won’t do. This criticism is kind of funny, because it’s about 100 years too late. The same criticism could have been made against every hunting round developed since the .270 Winchester In 1925!

2. Developed mostly for long range target shooting (it’s long for caliber bullets stabilize well out past 400 yards and it remains supersonic at 1,200 yards) it encourages hunters to take shots they maybe shouldn’t. Along these lines, I have learned that most riflemen really don’t know how far 400 is! It is a really long poke.

3. We hunters are, without question, the most hidebound, opinionated people on the planet. Bar none. We don’t like new things. This prejudice sometimes blinds us to the value of new technologies. On the other hand, this prejudice also makes us less susceptible to the temptation to buy into every new gizmo that comes down the pike. I wish I had resisted the temptation to jump on the WSM bandwagon!
 

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My brother brought one for an axis hunt on a large ranch, when we got there the guides said that they call it “the 6.5 need more” cause of how many people wound axis with it. Guess what happened on morning number one? It was a rough trip.
I thought it was just us calling it that.
 

Inline6

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1000% agree!!!!! I’ve outfitted Wy for more than 20 years. Never had an issue with the 260, the 6.5 is a different story.
How? Technically speaking no difference in performance none. The biggest difference you are seeing in my personal opinion is bullets used. 20 years ago target bullets were not readily available in factory ammo.

I would also venture to say you see 3X the amount of 6.5CM than you did 260 if not more. The deal is when stepping into the small caliber world, your margin for error starts shrinking. Having shot Whitetail with 223 up to 300WM, it easy to see. Someone that is just getting into hunting/shooting. May not fully understand the value of energy on target of the bullet that allows the most energy transferred into game.

How many people actually test their bullets to see what the do at distance or up close. At some point people have to be responsible for their shot and their gear choice. The cartridge doesn't decide if the animal runs away or not.

The reason the 6.5CM gets the rap it does, some writer said the SD of the 6.5mm bullet was a close match the a bullet commonly used in a 300WM. SD, not energy. It is not the cartridges fault people cannot comprehend or choose to remember what they want. A (same type, brand) bullet going 2800fps out of 6.5mm bore (6.5CM) and doing 2800fps out of a different 6.5mm bore (260) will have the same result. Their is no voodoo.
 

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I’ve got no beef with any cartridge used in its intended manner. I do take issue with people trying to use a cartridge to do something it’s not intended for. I had the unfortunate experience of watching a youngster shoot six times through the heart/lung area of an oryx just over 100 yards and it took a very long time for it to die.

Details?

Oryx are tough animals. I shot 3 bulls with a 180 AB out of a 30-06 and not a single bullet passed through. They died quickly but I would not have wanted a smaller cartridge than say a 7x57 with quality 175's. The animals deserve better.
 

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My brother brought one for an axis hunt on a large ranch, when we got there the guides said that they call it “the 6.5 need more” cause of how many people wound axis with it. Guess what happened on morning number one? It was a rough trip.

Personally, I think that bullet design has a lot to do with that. I do not ascribe to hornady’s terminal ballistic intent with the ELD-X. That bullet is likely the most used bullet in 6.5 CM. IMO it is far too soft for reliable results. If folks would shoot the federal scirocco load I think you would see a completely different set of outcomes.
 

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How? Technically speaking no difference in performance none. The biggest difference you are seeing in my personal opinion is bullets used. 20 years ago target bullets were not readily available in factory ammo.

I would also venture to say you see 3X the amount of 6.5CM than you did 260 if not more. The deal is when stepping into the small caliber world, your margin for error starts shrinking. Having shot Whitetail with 223 up to 300WM, it easy to see. Someone that is just getting into hunting/shooting. May not fully understand the value of energy on target of the bullet that allows the most energy transferred into game.

How many people actually test their bullets to see what the do at distance or up close. At some point people have to be responsible for their shot and their gear choice. The cartridge doesn't decide if the animal runs away or not.

The reason the 6.5CM gets the rap it does, some writer said the SD of the 6.5mm bullet was a close match the a bullet commonly used in a 300WM. SD, not energy. It is not the cartridges fault people cannot comprehend or choose to remember what they want. A (same type, brand) bullet going 2800fps out of 6.5mm bore (6.5CM) and doing 2800fps out of a different 6.5mm bore (260) will have the same result. Their is no voodoo.
It would be safe to say we have had 2 to 1 ratio as far as the creedmore to the 260.
A lot of the problem’s in the beginning were hunters showing up with factory target ammo. I too don’t see how there can be a difference in the two calibers.
I personally shot a custom 6.5 Remington mag for years and never had any issues.
 

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Just curious, but why is the 6.5 Creedmoor so reviled? Certainly it has its limitations, but so does every cartridge. I wouldn't take a 22 LR for whitetail any more than I would take a Creedmoor for elephant (W.D.M Bell notwithstanding). That said, I came to hunting as an adult and my young son has learned hunting with me. When researching his first deer rifle, A Weatherby Vanguard Youth in 6.5 Creedmoor made good sense. Cheap, accurate, and loads of support for the cartridge. (I know a 6.5/55 would also have been great but price and availability were not good here). At 9 years old he killed his first whitetail with that rifle and has it accounted for probably a dozen or more by now. It is an efficient no nonsense killer of small to medium game and is perfect for where we live. I would think it would do reasonable service on small plains game as well.

We are point blank range hunters. I won't let him take a shot past 275 yards, but he has never had to. We can always sneak in closer than that.

We are not into social media and do not watch any hunting youtubers, so I'm out of touch with the trendy side of shooting sports. My preferences tend towards wood and blued bolt actions in calibers that Teddy Roosevelt could have shot, but the Creedmoor just works. My son is currently on an overnight hunting trip with a local Christian outdoor organization. They supply all the rifles if the kids need one, and they have a rack of Ruger Americans in 6.5 Creedmoor.

For all the hate, it seems to be a straw man argument. I know the Creedmoor cannot do anything that other cartridges didn't already do, except that the marketing and factory support have rocketed it to popularity so that it available and easy. Besides, which new cartridge has ever really brought a completely new capability to market? everything is to some extent derivative.

I guess I'm feeling a little self conscious about my decision, and I certainly don't want my son to grow a man bun. I doubt I have much to worry about. He is now 5ft 10 inches tall 14 years old and took his last two deer with a 45-70. Hopefully that will be enough to bring his testosterone back up!;)
I think people are objecting to the hype that the 6.5 CM has been pushed as an elk or bear round and suitable for everything bigger than deer. As a deer, pronghorn and lighter PG rifle it should be just about perfect. It would certainly be better than a .243, especially for smaller framed shooters. My grandson is only six now, but I intend to buy one for him in a few years. It should be a great cartridge for him for many years. I think you made a good choice for your son.
 

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I've recently acquired my first 6.5CM and am still getting used to it. I agree about all of the hype out there and that has kept me from jumping in for a long time. Flat shooting, making it an ideal hunting round inside 300yards with the added attraction of long range target capabilities tipped the decision.

In one way it seems like natural evolution. Kind of a .270 for the AR platform in much the same way that the 350 Legend is a 30-30 for for the AR platform. Being able to put a 6.5CM upper on my AR-10 lower made getting my feet wet easier.

On the other hand the .308 still has a lot going for it. Scads of available once fired brass, bulk projectile availability and a wide variety of both civilian and military style rifles kind of make the 6.5CM more of a boutique round.
 

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Just curious, but why is the 6.5 Creedmoor so reviled? Certainly it has its limitations, but so does every cartridge. I wouldn't take a 22 LR for whitetail any more than I would take a Creedmoor for elephant (W.D.M Bell notwithstanding). That said, I came to hunting as an adult and my young son has learned hunting with me. When researching his first deer rifle, A Weatherby Vanguard Youth in 6.5 Creedmoor made good sense. Cheap, accurate, and loads of support for the cartridge. (I know a 6.5/55 would also have been great but price and availability were not good here). At 9 years old he killed his first whitetail with that rifle and has it accounted for probably a dozen or more by now. It is an efficient no nonsense killer of small to medium game and is perfect for where we live. I would think it would do reasonable service on small plains game as well.

We are point blank range hunters. I won't let him take a shot past 275 yards, but he has never had to. We can always sneak in closer than that.

We are not into social media and do not watch any hunting youtubers, so I'm out of touch with the trendy side of shooting sports. My preferences tend towards wood and blued bolt actions in calibers that Teddy Roosevelt could have shot, but the Creedmoor just works. My son is currently on an overnight hunting trip with a local Christian outdoor organization. They supply all the rifles if the kids need one, and they have a rack of Ruger Americans in 6.5 Creedmoor.

For all the hate, it seems to be a straw man argument. I know the Creedmoor cannot do anything that other cartridges didn't already do, except that the marketing and factory support have rocketed it to popularity so that it available and easy. Besides, which new cartridge has ever really brought a completely new capability to market? everything is to some extent derivative.

I guess I'm feeling a little self conscious about my decision, and I certainly don't want my son to grow a man bun. I doubt I have much to worry about. He is now 5ft 10 inches tall 14 years old and took his last two deer with a 45-70. Hopefully that will be enough to bring his testosterone back up!;)
@Dukeisok
My dislike if the 6.5 Creedmoor stems from the fact of so much advertising raming it down our throat and praising its long range virtues. Some people believed all this hype and tried to use it at long range to take game. Sometimes it worked but a lot of the time it didn't.
Yes it is a great long range target cartridge but not a good long range game cartridge.
Like the 6.5x55 used within its capabilities it is a fine cartridge for game, BUT all the advertising bullshit tries to make it something it ain't. There's a stack of good 6.5s out there but the advertising is making it the top of the heap.
As a cartridge it runs rings around that other over advertised pos, the 243.
I'm proud of your son using the cartridge within both its limits and recognising his own limits. This is what separates hunters from shooters. He is a credit to your fine teaching. Well done to both of you.
Bob
 

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We can apply the same logic to trucks, my 05 Cummins fuel mileage was not much different that my 2018 Cummins. The 18 has a few more comfort features. They got me A to B, most will buy a different vehicle multiple times in their life because they have worn one out. The same is not true for rifle, how many people here have actually shot a barrel out? If a company is going to stay ahead of the game, be innovative they have to find the "next best way to shin a cat". What would happen to the gun industry? Imagine if cars did not wear out, that it the equivalent to the gun industry.

My 9 year old son from age 6 til now has kill at least 6 deer at 160 yards plus, all next shots with a 6.5CM gasser. It is low recoil, it is accurate and it kills.

I have used the 6.5CM in the competition world back in 2010-2012. Have hit on targets out to 1300 yards. Have hits with the 6CM out to 1600 yards. Can a 260 or 6.5X55 I do know, I have not tried it.

I have tried a 7RM I hate the belt, I have tried the 7 WSM I hated the brass. I do was a 7 PRC, Hornady has a good track record of making accurate cartridges.

I'm also sure that the little details of a case design get lost on some people. The length of the body to shorten the powder column and seat the bullet out further and still fit in a mag. 30° shoulder seem to help with accuracy, 30°-35° seems to be the spot that produces good accuracy and still feed well out of a mag. Take a look at Alex Wheeler the things he has done with the 6BR turning it into the 6BRA. It has achieved groups at 600 yards that most would be proud of @ 100 yards. If no one is pushing limits or coming up with better designs. The crazy part for me is in the last 15 years I have seen so much innovative things. It is hard from me to wrap my mind around the negative thoughts of new cartridges. Look at the way manufacturers are responding to targets rifles, scope, shooting accessories, i.e range finder, ballistic programs. 15 years ago people could not believe you shoot 500 yards accurately much less 1500 yards. Now it is common place for someone to shoot 500 yards and bang steel. The advancement of the shooting sport is good for us all the way around.

I know it is easy to get upset when you can't find your ammo on the shelves because the new flavor is getting the run time on the floor. Just remember, if these companies do not make a profit. How do they keep the doors open.
Oh, I completely agree with everything you are saying. Many of the newer cartridges were designed for competition shooting at very long ranges and no doubt excel at that. I'm sure many of them are excellent "longer" range hunting cartridges too, although I'm not sure as to their overwhelming benefits/ superiority versus the cartridges they are attempting to replace. We saw the same hype by the shooting industry in the early 2000s for the WSSMs and SAUMs. However, I'm pragmatic and realize new rifles and cartridges keep their doors open, but this time around feels like we've been "played" more by the industry than in the past with the continued unavailability of rifles, ammo and brass in many standard hunting cartridges, while there seems to be plenty of the new(er) stuff out there. I don't remember seeing that in the past "shortages" with availability of new vs. older rifles/cartridges. Anyway, that's the beauty of choices and to each their own with choice of firearms and ammo. Good hunting and shoot straight!
 

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@Dukeisok
My dislike if the 6.5 Creedmoor stems from the fact of so much advertising raming it down our throat and praising its long range virtues. Some people believed all this hype and tried to use it at long range to take game. Sometimes it worked but a lot of the time it didn't.
Yes it is a great long range target cartridge but not a good long range game cartridge.
Like the 6.5x55 used within its capabilities it is a fine cartridge for game, BUT all the advertising bullshit tries to make it something it ain't. There's a stack of good 6.5s out there but the advertising is making it the top of the heap.
As a cartridge it runs rings around that other over advertised pos, the 243.
I'm proud of your son using the cartridge within both its limits and recognising his own limits. This is what separates hunters from shooters. He is a credit to your fine teaching. Well done to both of you.
Bob
I was reading through thinking I should start a thread on 6.5cm vs .243win but it got a mention already.
.243win was probably the go to round for Whitetail before the Man Bun gun ,
 

Doug3006

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I was reading through thinking I should start a thread on 6.5cm vs .243win but it got a mention already.
.243win was probably the go to round for Whitetail before the Man Bun gun ,
I would wager the ole’ 06 would stand at the head of the class for bolt rifle rounds.
 

Bob Nelson 35Whelen

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6.5 hate ? It’s not the cartridge, it’s history. Lee Harvey Oswald, that’s were it all fell apart. The assassination of an American president, conspiracy theories, bullets that can turn in mid air, the Grassy knoll. Just think how different the world would be had Lee Harvey used a 35 Whelen.
@Jeff505
JFK was apparently killed by Lee Harvey Oswald using a catalogue bought Itallian 6.5x52 Carcano with a side mount scope. These were not reputed to be a very accurate rifle.
With Oswald's killing controversy and conspiracy theory abounds. Was there more than on shooter or not. The rifle he used was not the ideal rifle for the job especially hitting a moving target at distance and a head shot at that. We will never know the true story. Was Oswald the killer or the scape goat.
Bob
 

Bob Nelson 35Whelen

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Many shooters do need the 6 or 6.5 MM cartridges. I am one of them. I already have all the cartridges needed to hunt about anywhere in the world and will not be buying or trying anymore. I am not a gun writer, just a hunter and I care not about any of the new cartridges or the rifles that shoot them.
Period.
It does not bother me if some folks want to try every new fad, even though all the hub-bub over new things is tiresome, It is mostly ignored by me.

No hate, just bored with all the fuss. I bet this is true of a significant portion of most
mature, been there /done that hunters. Yawn.
@crs
Ron Spoomer did a comparison between the 6.5 manbun and the 25-06. The 25-06 won hands down in flat trajectory and hitting power.
I know it's an apples and oranges test. He opined that if the 25 had a twist faster than 1 in ten to stabilize the new 131gn 25 cal Berger the old 25 would be superior in all aspects.
Then again any 6.5 or 25 is better than the 243 ever was or will be.
Bob
 

Bob Nelson 35Whelen

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I was reading through thinking I should start a thread on 6.5cm vs .243win but it got a mention already.
.243win was probably the go to round for Whitetail before the Man Bun gun ,
@CBH Australia
The 243 was only popular due to advertising bullshit trying to make us believe it was actually useful.
The same for the manbun. At least the manbun is a useful hunting round within its limitations.
Bob
 

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