Video worth a watch - Dumb Luck -

[Nyati]

When I have a PH/Guide in front of me, my chamber is empty, always.

When I am called up on the sticks, a round is chambered.

I have no problems whatsoever with this procedure.

 

[BRICKBURN]

Pretty damned impressed she stood her ground and did not run.

I’ll bet there will be some more prep before the next outing though.

 

[IvW]

I was not there but some obsevations....I have guided many similar groups....

A sixth sense warned het of danger....she mentions that, actually stops and stops the group....she should have chambered a round and put the rifle on safe at this point....
She had more oportunaty after this to also chamber a round....

What happened to the front guide?? No shots fired so he must have bailed....she stood her ground and that saved them.....I would not go with the front guide again after that....and trust me when I say it took guts to not start running but stand still and keep trying to sort the rifle.....

She should have at least cycled some rounds when she collected the rifle from the safe to check....she may well have just been short stroking the magnum length action.....no fault of the rifle but rather operator error.....she wont make the same mistake again....

 

[Scott CWO]

Newboomer,

when i am guiding and a hunter is with me, he is behind me almost all the time when hiking, getting off the boat and skiff. I usually don't know them. i am in front and MY gun has an empty chamber, unless we are going into a tight spot in the alders, when clear of that space i empty my chamber in front of the client.

i believe in being prepared, and am. that said, i offer my hunter the freedom to check my rifle at any time for bullets in the chamber. i don't want him feeling that i am treating him differently than i carry my own gun. if we have a encounter with a sow or bear at close range, i have the hunter chamber a round and move along side me.

those are the rules, we have had a couple guys that did not like it at first, but they came around. this is not a way to make clients feel stupid, or unarmed. this is a very real safety issue. i had a hunter damn near put a 338 win bullet in me when we had a bull moose running off, he missed me. so, you might be the safest guy in the world, with the best muzzle discipline, but you are still behind me with a loaded 375. maybe if the roles were reversed you would feel different, but maybe not. having a stranger with a loaded bear rifle behind you all day (and some hunters fiddle with their rifles, safeties all day) makes me....careful.

@Scott CWO guides bears, maybe his outfit has different rules.

as far as the woman with the rifle goes, she went out to PROTECT people with a rifle that she was not familiar with and obviously mis-ran it. hmmmmm, problem was not the gun it was the operator (of course the gun could have had issues, but if it was HER rifle, it would not have had issues.) I'm not sure which life lesson she learned, maybe have a gun that works, EVERY TIME!!

I do not allow a client to load the chamber on any hunt until the animal has been judged and we are on a final approach on the stalk. Period.

I load my chamber on DG hunts immediately after getting out of the skiff or out of camp. I am leading and responsible for the safety of the client. When I am a client, I only load the chamber when instructed by my PH and I cover this in conversation beforehand.

 

[Tanks]

I've hunted dangerous game with a PH who instructed me to follow him, unloaded, into the jesse. I was uncomfortable but I kept my damn mouth shut. ...

I would not be hunting with him, period.

 

[TwoTracks]

I do not allow a client to load the chamber on any hunt until the animal has been judged and we are on a final approach on the stalk. Period.

I load my chamber on DG hunts immediately after getting out of the skiff or out of camp. I am leading and responsible for the safety of the client. When I am a client, I only load the chamber when instructed by my PH and I cover this in conversation beforehand.

Thank you for reply sir. This is exactly what I’ve seen in my experience too. I have never seen an AD(or negligent discharge) in a hunting situation but I’ve seen It come close. Safeties in the fire position, with a loaded chamber. Bolts completely open or coming open and ejecting a round, while walking/stalking. Bottom line, silly stuff happens to us all. Your professional hunter or guide is responsible for mitigating the silly stuff and keeping everyone involved safe.

 

[sestoppelman]

Pretty damned impressed she stood her ground and did not run.

I’ll bet there will be some more prep before the next outing though.

Sort of hard to tell if a made up vid is the only evidence. The "charging buffalo" is the cameraman.

 

[crs]

After reading part of the first page, I skipped to the last page and have only this comment on rifle preparedness and safety.:

On my buff hunt in RSA, we drove to the hunting area and my DG PH and I checked the accuracy of my rifle with two shots at a target 50 yards away. Upon mutual agreement, we drove a mile to the empty lodge on the top of a wooded ridge and dismounted. The PH and I loaded our rifle magazines and left my chamber empty. I began walking into the wind behind the PH and two trackers and soon we came upon fresh buff tracks in the sand and my PH said "load your rifle" and I levered a round into the chamber and we proceeded with my hammer down and safety on.
As the hunt and eventual stalk improved, I eventually cocked the hammer when we saw the game and upon placing the rifle on the sticks at 20 yards behind the buff, it was only after the PH whispered for me to shoot between the front legs, that I went off safety and shot my buff right where he had directed. Of course the 400 grain Weldcore took the long way around through 40 inches of innards, the heart, and out between the front legs!

That hunt was short but there were several actions taken that demonstrated the skill and experience of the PH and trackers. I was fortunate to work with such talented people. The tracker that later brought me the buff heart with a big hole in it was smiling as broadly as I. Teamwork!

Almost forgot the obligatory rifle picture. It is a Miroku/Winchester 1895 TD chambered in .405 WCF:

 

[1dirthawker]

I would not be hunting with him, period.

tanks,
i would be ok with that. let several guys each season, that you don't know, walk behind you with a loaded 375, 458, 500. day in, day out. i suspect you might change your mind. if not.... no problem, i don't want to guide you either. period!

 

[Tanks]

tanks,
i would be ok with that. let several guys each season, that you don't know, walk behind you with a loaded 375, 458, 500. day in, day out. i suspect you might change your mind. if not.... no problem, i don't want to guide you either. period!

Have you hunted buffalo or elephant in thick bush? We have been charged by an elephant (not the one we were tracking). I was the one that stopped him mere yards away as the PH was blocked by his tracker from shooting. If I did not have one in the chamber we could have been in trouble. You need to be prepared for battle under those conditions to paraphrase a well known notorious PH

Sure, hunting PG in RSA or grizzly in Alaska where shots and visibility are a lot further I don't care if I am loaded or not. Ditto when hunting bear or cougar with dogs, no need to load up until the quarry is treeed.

In my upcoming August hunt in Zimbabwe I will load up the moment we get off the truck as that is the procedure. Afterwards, in Zambia going after Sable, whenever I am asked to do so.

As I said earlier if going after DG with low visibility if the procedure is to load up just prior to pulling the trigger then the outfitter and I are not having a meeting of the minds and most likely will not be hunting together. BTW, I have NEVER been asked to not load up on a DG hunt.

 

[IvW]

tanks,
i would be ok with that. let several guys each season, that you don't know, walk behind you with a loaded 375, 458, 500. day in, day out. i suspect you might change your mind. if not.... no problem, i don't want to guide you either. period!

Yip DG PH's first asses the clients abilities.....loaded guns behind me are not on especially when starting out on tracks....
Terrain, vegitation etc. Will determine when to chamber.
When chamber next to me and absolutely no chambered round in a rifle if you intend using the African carry behind me I dont care who you are.....
Chambered round means total control of the weapon which in turn means rifle in hand....simple...

I have had shots through my cruiser, next to my feet and past my head.....no more....simple....if you are bot safe with your firearm you follow my rules....

And yes I have had guys chamber when I do but I have assesed them as being safe and in total control of such firearm......

The PH or guide is responsible for everybodies safety, if he is not happy with a clients gun safety follow his rules simple....

I have terminated my services of guiding two different clients due to dangerous gun handling by them....one ended up alnost shooting the replacement PH.....

Nuff said.....

 

[1dirthawker]

Have you hunted buffalo or elephant in thick bush?

yes on the buffalo, no on the elephant. on the buffalo, not sure if my PH had a loaded chamber or not, i suspect he did. I was carrying a double, of course it was loaded. for my part, i felt pretty uncomfortable and pressured to be super careful about my muzzle discipline. (i am always careful, but crawling thru some of the thick stuff makes it difficult to keep a rifle pointed safely all the time) Izak, my PH told me to load the rifle so of course i did.

I typically hunt where i can see farther, as said before, when i get into an enclosed space (in the alders) i will on occasion load my chamber, but then clear my rifle as i clear a threatening patch of cover.

mostly when hunting, we are sitting on a high spot and immobile unless walking in/out or making a stalk. different circumstances require different actions. but to bluntly say that my hunters should be walking around with a chambered rifle, where i hunt, is simply not a good idea.

anyway, i am getting a bit off track from the OP

 

[Art Lambart II]

Lots of lessons to be learned from that video, so far everyone has focused on the guide and her firearm skills or lack of those skills. The real lesson to be learned is from the client's perspective. Why would you go and a DG photo safari with guides you have never seen handle a firearm or proven they could shoot one accurately? Think about that the next time you go on a DG hunt, as a client our PH's always want us to "check our zero" before we go hunting, most of us know that's just a polite way of asking us to prove we can shoot well and handle a firearm safely. What about your PH shouldn't you know the same thing about them. Just some food for thought.

 

[IvW]

I doubt many can book 2 foot safaris the first one just to determine the competance of the field guide....not sure how you would do that without going on the first safari to start with.....
I would go with her anytime....

 

[Tanks]

...Think about that the next time you go on a DG hunt, as a client our PH's always want us to "check our zero" before we go hunting, most of us know that's just a polite way of asking us to prove we can shoot well and handle a firearm safely. What about your PH shouldn't you know the same thing about them. Just some food for thought.

I would say anyone that gets their Zimbabwean PH license is competent enough. It is not a multi-week course like some other countries.

Also, learning about your outfitter/PH is part of the due diligence. The PH I am going to hunt DG with next August got his PH license in 1994 and used to sit on the Zim PH licensing board. I'd say he is competent. Plus, we get along not to mention we agree on "using enough gun" .

 

[Art Lambart II]

I doubt many can book 2 foot safaris the first one just to determine the competance of the field guide....not sure how you would do that without going on the first safari to start with.....
I would go with her anytime....

IvW, I agree with you 100% she proved she has the courage to hunt DG she just needs some additional firearm training and practice. As for the competence of my PH you're right, I would have no idea of their skill as a guide or hunter without first seeing them in action, but I can assess their shooting skill on the range before our hunt even starts. I personally would like to know my DG PH can hit what he or she aims at before I trust them with my life.