Skip The Suppressor and Break

[One Day...]

Whenever I get erratic groups when shooting a direct thread can, it is loose. A loose can will cause all sorts of issues with accuracy. If it was fine at 100 yards, I suspect it should be fine at 200 yards.

Yep, my thought too

 

[One Day...]

@One Day... I'd have to go remeasure, but I believe to have an adequate shoulder I had to cut an inch off, to get to about 0.66 inches on the diameter and thread it. I believe it was a 26" barrel to begin with, so taking an inch off was actually not a bad thing in my opinion. I suppose "thin" is a bit subjective, but I think relative to the more modern trends for barrels that are threaded, mine was thin.

I don't claim to be an expert but I do believe that the caliber matters as well. As I mentioned previously, I have a thinner contoured Mark V chambered in 223 Winchester, that I had threaded to 1/2"x28, with an adapter to shoot the same Ultra 7, and had zero issue with the suppressor/accuracy. But the pressure is very different on a 223 Win than a 7mm Wby. I believe a 7MM Wby probably has about 70% more muzzle pressure than a 223 Win (I'd guesstimate 7,000 PSI to 12,000 PSI).

Again, my 7MM Wby is fluted too. I'm no engineer, but I'd assume removing that material from the barrel impacts its rigidity and thus the harmonics as well when adding a suppressor.

Certainly not saying my experience will be indicative of anyone else's. I realize there are a lot of variables that impact things. I just wanted to share mine in case anyone was on the fence to thread an existing gun and had similar rifle attributes.

Regarding the Magnus, I bought the Magnus-S RR. The RR version is just a brake that's added to the can, which obviously reduces the noise suppression. My research indicated that the K in RR is kind of a waste of money, too short with the brake to really make a meaningful noise difference. I read that you should technically still be wearing hearing protection if shooting the K-RR, which seemed to defeat the purpose!

So the S was kind of a sweet-spot from my research. You get the recoil reduction and noise suppression you're looking for without carrying the equivalent of a small infant on the end of your rifle in the "standard" version.

My personal recommendation is GO BIGGER on the the caliber choice when buying a can. Using my 375 Magnus on a 30-caliber gun is only a noise suppression loss of 1 - 4 dB compared to using a dedicated 30 caliber Magnus suppressor. Also less back pressure when the can is a little oversized. I very much like the idea of having one can that can work for a wider array of calibers, if the suppression loss isn't even distinguishable to human ear. My Ultra 7 is for a 30 caliber and it's very quiet on my 223's....Certainly not loud enough to justify spending another $1,000+ on a can dedicated for a 223.

Thank you for taking the time to write this

One question if I may: did you cut and thread the barrel yourself? With a threading die?

If yes, this could explain inconsistencies. But if the thread was cut on a lathe by someone who knows what they are doing, it is virtually guaranteed to have a square shoulder, and if a thread relief was cut at the end, the squaring of the can on the barrel should not be the issue...

I agree that the Magnus K is kind of a moot point for a Wby caliber

I just ordered mine, and I went with the full size Magnus .30. I do not mind the added length for .300 Wby and .257 Wby barrels, these are not CQB calibers, and when I crawl in thick jesse or dense bush after Buff, I carry the .458 Lott barrel anyway.

I did hesitate with the Magnus .375, but I tend to use the caliber less nowadays. I cannot afford Lion hunts in Tanzania, and I find myself either with the .257 Wby (light PG and MG - mountain game) or .300 Wby (large PG) barrels bolted most of the time. Or as mentioned above, with the .458 Lott barrel on DG. The .375 baffles and end cap would have given up too much suppression in constant use .300 or .257 for a rare use on .375, to be worth it.

What I wanted (and need!) is maximum sound suppression. Too many safaris where putting on the ear muffs fell by the way side during the tensions of the final stalk have already made me live in a constant whistling world (tinnitus!) and I cannot afford to loose much more hearing...

Thunder Beast recommend a 9/16-24 thread on Blaser barrels, and this is what I will do. I will check if Blaser want to do it -- reportedly they do not thread for customers anymore (?) -- or I will send the barrels to Precision Barrel Work. I would expect them to know what they are doing...

I will report the outcome..................................................

PS: i took the HUB model and direct thread adapters for 1/2-28; 5/8-24. and 9/16-24 so it will go indifferently on a number of rifles / barrels from .223 to .30.

 

[bobdahunter84]

I certainly didn't thread my barrel myself. I know my limitations. I'll mount a scope, change a trigger, etc.--minor crap. I don't have the tools or knowledge to thread a barrel. I'm especially not trying my hand on a DIY threading project on a custom pre 64 model 70....

Someone previously asked who did my threading. My local gunsmith I use is very skilled, noted above--he went to Trinidad State for gunsmithing, so he's not a guy working out of his basement. He did all of them on a CNC lathe.

Like I started my post saying, I don't claim to be an expert. I know a lot of people are more knowledgeable than I am when it comes to some of this stuff. But there is a reason that the modern rifles that are threaded for suppressors generally come with sendero contours for hunting rifles or even bull contours for target guns. While there are some, there are not many factory options for a suppressor-ready featherweight contour.

I recognize "thin" is a subjective barrel and physically you can thread a featherweight barrel, whether it's a good idea is another thing... Again, for some applications it may work fine. But unless it's a non-magnum/lower pressure round, I won't be doing it again on a featherweight contour.

Good luck on yours.

 

[steve white]

Would you consider the standard contour on a Tikka TC3 to be "thin"...cal. 7mmRemMag

 

[uplander01]

As a sales rep using multiple rifle samples every year, many different brand of suppressors, many different calibers I can honestly say what is happening with your rifle is not common. The fact that the rifle shoots great without brake or suppressor tells you that the muzzle devices are causing the problem. Previous comment on making sure devices are tight would have been my first thought as well. If they are, than you gotta look real close at the threading job…..if it is off center at all, it may even be hard to see with the naked eye it will cause this problem as the pressure will be uneven around your bullet moving through muzzle devices. In severe bad threading job the bullet may nick one side of the suppressor or brake on the way out causing destabilization. Just because a gunsmith is usually spot on you can’t assume he is perfect every time….he’s human. A slight cant to the thread would create the same problem.

 

[Choupique]

Regardless of what is happening with ops rifle, I wouldnt keep one that didnt shoot with a can. Im spoiled now. I dont plan to ever hunt with an unsuppressed rifle again.

 

[farmer_john]

Regardless of what is happening with ops rifle, I wouldnt keep one that didnt shoot with a can. Im spoiled now. I dont plan to ever hunt with an unsuppressed rifle again.

My older guns dont and wont. My newer stuff does.

 

[bobdahunter84]

I appreciate all of the thoughtful comments on my original post. Again, my intention was simply to share some insight to my own experiences that may save someone a little time or pulling out their hair if they experienced something similar.

I will say, I generally avoid posts like this though because of the responses I often see from folks. There are a fair amount of armchair theorists/keyboard geniuses that KNOW what must have been the issue, and that it was either something I did wrong like not having the can tight, or my gunsmith making a mistake....

Sometimes some things just don't play nice together. We all have guns that shoot a certain ammo great and sprays another ammo all over the paper. Some folks would say, "oh you probably had a bad batch of ammo." "That's why I don't buy that brand, it's crap..." But the correct answer is that ammo in that gun just doesn't work. Both can be completely fine independent of each other, but don't play nice together.

That's what I'm chalking my situation up to. It was a custom gun that was rebarreled decades prior to threading barrels for suppressors being common practice. Had that gun been built/customized to be threaded for a can, it probably would have been a little beefier, maybe it wouldn't have been fluted to add to its rigidity, probably a little shorter to make it more maneuverable/less whippy/better harmonics, etc.

The gun shoots lights out when I take off the suppressor and muzzle brake. It doesn't shoot well with them on. When I put the same suppressor on a different gun with an even thinner barrel (albeit a much lesser caliber in a barrel that's not fluted), they shoot fine together.

 

[mms45]

just my experience I don't know that I will ever hunt in north America or plains game with out a suppressor. My go to is a 30 nosler with a TBAC ultra 7 gen 2. I have hunted with this combo for 5 years which is the longest I have ever kept to one rifle....( I might have a problem with guns) .. my longest shot on game was 468 yards. Its perfect every time I remove or install the can zero is always the same.

I have shot the rifle to 800 yards several times on steel also to verify dope.

suppressors are probably the single best tool for teaching new shooters by taking the blast out the equation sometimes i thinks that 1/2 the recoil is the perception of the blast.

 

[steve white]

I appreciate all of the thoughtful comments on my original post. Again, my intention was simply to share some insight to my own experiences that may save someone a little time or pulling out their hair if they experienced something similar.

I will say, I generally avoid posts like this though because of the responses I often see from folks. There are a fair amount of armchair theorists/keyboard geniuses that KNOW what must have been the issue, and that it was either something I did wrong like not having the can tight, or my gunsmith making a mistake....

Sometimes some things just don't play nice together. We all have guns that shoot a certain ammo great and sprays another ammo all over the paper. Some folks would say, "oh you probably had a bad batch of ammo." "That's why I don't buy that brand, it's crap..." But the correct answer is that ammo in that gun just doesn't work. Both can be completely fine independent of each other, but don't play nice together.

That's what I'm chalking my situation up to. It was a custom gun that was rebarreled decades prior to threading barrels for suppressors being common practice. Had that gun been built/customized to be threaded for a can, it probably would have been a little beefier, maybe it wouldn't have been fluted to add to its rigidity, probably a little shorter to make it more maneuverable/less whippy/better harmonics, etc.

The gun shoots lights out when I take off the suppressor and muzzle brake. It doesn't shoot well with them on. When I put the same suppressor on a different gun with an even thinner barrel (albeit a much lesser caliber in a barrel that's not fluted), they shoot fine together.

If the suppressor works well on other guns, and, your fluted barrel shoot lights out without the suppressor, then it has to be a miss match that as you say is just incompatible. May I say that lots of folks would kill for a 200 yd 1/4 inch group on a hunting weight rifle! Just enjoy it (with ear protection)

 

[Gomer]

It seems there are two camps in the suppressor crowd: Some like the ones with some length and the others are more interested in girth.

 

[Surgeon1]

It seems there are two camps in the suppressor crowd: Some like the ones with some length and the others are more interested in girth.

That what she said!

 

[One Day...]

It seems there are two camps in the suppressor crowd: Some like the ones with some length and the others are more interested in girth.

A few technical considerations: understanding the different classes of suppressors

The bottom line for silencer performance is actually volume, which is a mathematical combination of the two (length & diameter).

Baffle designs is critical too, with two concepts at play. One is maximization of sound reduction, hence capture of as much gas as possible, which causes high back pressure in the barrel. These are best for bolt rifles. The other one is high flow (forward) hence low backflow, in order to reduce chamber "port pop" and excessive pressure in the gas system. These are best for gas guns. But low backflow cans have a significantly lower sound suppression effectiveness.

To make a long story short, very effective suppressors, those that can actually reduce a .300 Win Mag to levels compatible with safe human earing (less than 140 decibels at the shooter's ear) are all high pressure, long (minimum 7" to 8") and fat (minimum 1.5"). But these are still unsafe for bystanders left or right of the barrel (typically around 150 dB).

Remember that the decibel (dB) scale is logarithmic -- a very small number increase has a very large real-life impact -- and that for every increase of 3dB, the power of the sound doubles. So 150 dB is not 7% louder than 140 dB, it actually carries 10 times more sound energy (intensity -- what damages the ear) than 140 dB, even if it is perceived by the human ear as 'only' 2 times as loud.

The most effective suppressors, that are capable to reducing a .300 Win Mag blast down to low 140's dB (typically 143 dB) for bystanders left or right of the barrel are larger yet, typically 9" to 10" long and 1.75" to 1.9" in diameter. But even those are technically NOT safe for your PH and trackers if they stand on either side with you, as 143 dB is twice the intensity of safe hearing level, even if to a human ear -- especially one already damaged by previous shooting -- it is only marginally louder.

Of course numbers depend on the cartridge being fired, and all the above considerations apply to "magnum" class rounds, with or without belts (e.g. .300's, large capacity 7's or 6.5's etc.). Standard rounds (e.g. .308 or 270 class or smaller) generate a lot less noise.

So, to summarize, if the purpose is to reduce shot noise to the point the shooter does not need to wear ear protection -- a statement that every audiologist will contest! -- magnum rounds require "magnum" suppressors at least 9" long and 1.75" in diameter. Standard rounds can get away with smaller cans 7" long and 1.5" in diameter. Only small rounds, e.g. .223 or small capacity 6 or 6.5, can be effectively suppressed by 5" cans for which the common diameter is still generally 1.5".

Any deviation to that general guideline, regardless of manufacturer, baffle design, construction method (additive manufacturing a.k.a. 3D printing, or subtractive manufacturing a.k.a. machined baffles), or material (stainless steel, Inconel, titanium, etc.) will result in earing damage unless earing protection is used in addition to the silencer.

And again, earing health professionals all recommend always wearing "belt & suspenders" i.e. can and protections

If you want actual, scientifically gathered numbers, google and download the results of the 2025 Silencer Summit Sound Test Results and check where your can, or the one you are considering purchasing, stands. You will see that all the "best" cans in term of sound suppression (e.g. Tall Boy, Hydrogen L, TiRe-X, Accipiter Ti, Magnus, Vent 1, etc.) are ALL long and fat.

 

[Choupique]

And no suppressor of any length is going to be able to quiet down the supersonic crack of a big bullet going extremely fast. Thats going to be loud no matter what.

However now that Ive shot big rifles with really good suppressors, I can never go back. Ill make whatever sacrifices are needed to have the largest and quietest suppressor on my hunting rifle.

 

[One Day...]

And no suppressor of any length is going to be able to quiet down the supersonic crack of a big bullet going extremely fast. Thats going to be loud no matter what.

However now that Ive shot big rifles with really good suppressors, I can never go back. Ill make whatever sacrifices are needed to have the largest and quietest suppressor on my hunting rifle.

Agreed and agreed!

Have you tried TBAC Magnus .375?

I am trying to convince Zac to scale it up to .458

 

[David jr]

bobdahunter84
Two things that are real important for your silencer trouble .

First is get a silencer aliment road this will tell you if your threads are cut true to the bore.
If the rod is touching one side of the silencer with the road this is your problem ,bad threads.

The second thing is add a couple of LimbSaver Target Stabilizer Dampener
They change your barrel harmonics and are cheep .
Some of the 2 mile shooters have as many as 20 on their barrel they do work
they are ugly but it will help a lot if you do not have iron sights. on your barrel.

 

[SoDak Jay]

This doesn’t invalidate OP’s experience at all, but I had almost the complete opposite experience when I put a suppressor on a thin barrel.

I have a first generation X-bolt Pro in 6.5 Creed. It shot okay with about every round I tried out of it. Hornady ELD-X shot the best. But considering how expensive it was compared to other off the shelf rifles I wasn’t very happy with it. It was shooting around a 1-1.25” group. It didn’t matter if I was using a lead sled, sand bags, other type of rests, it just wasn’t incredibly accurate. Fine for hunting but not fine for my perfectionist tendencies. It’s a thin barrel with an M13-.75 pitch rate.

I finally got a suppressor. All of a sudden it’s shooting consistent .5” groups. I certainly haven’t become a significantly better shooter. My thoughts are whatever weight the suppressor added helps stabilize the thin barrel.

It is a direct thread suppressor and I do have to check it pretty frequently to make sure it isn’t loose while at the range.

 

[Choupique]

Have you tried TBAC Magnus .375?

No. Nomad LTiXC is my current sweetheart. Its huge, light and sounds amazing.

The cool thing to boot is that the POI shift without the can on the xeno mount is 0.4 mil vertical and no horizontal shift, and its perfectly repeatable! I can screw it on and off however much I want and not worry about it. Groups are excellent either way.

I dont want to bag on OP, but physics dictates that the only way this problem can happen is some kind of alignment or assembly issue. Its totally possible for the bore to not be concentric with the OD of the barrel. The smith might have cut the threads perfectly straight to the barrel OD but the bore is what matters, and it doesnt necessarily have to be straight.

 

[MacJenkins]

We have shortened and threaded 5-6 Blaser K95 barrels over the years with 1/2x28 for suppressors with no issues what so ever. I would not call them pencil thin however.