Sauer 404

worth1

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I was out this weekend looking at a R8. They showed me a Sauer 404 as well. Until that time, I have never handled one or even considered one. There are a lot of things I like about the rifle but don't know anyone who has owned one and reviews on the web are minimal.

Does anyone have any in the field experience with one? I was thinking about picking up in 300 Winchester for plains game.
 
Never heard of it so went and looked. The old saying came to mind. :eek: "Life is too short to hunt with an ugly rifle".:rolleyes::whistle:
Let alone a very expensive ugly rifle.
 
I’ve got both R8’s and 404’s and ever since I bought the 404’s I haven’t taken the R8’s out the cabinet. They are in my opinion so much better. Lighter, smaller, sleeker and a lot less clumsy to handle, the Saftey/cocking works better and if you loose a magazine then that’s all you loose not the trigger as well. The heated stock is also amazing on those really cold ice covered days. I have one in .308 with a supper short barrel for woodland stalking and a .300wm for everything else and they both handle like they should and are pin hope accurate. You can also put NV or thermal on them on QD mounts if you want to use it in night critters.

The only downside is the cost of all the accessories for them and some items are still not available as it’s only been out a few years but their almost there.

Word of advise in my opinion if you get one though is don’t but the carbon stock, it scratches very easily and I found it too light to be accurate. I hope this all helps
 
Or just buy a Mauser M03 for a “proper”, good-looking switch-barrel rifle
 
Does anyone have any in the field experience with one? I was thinking about picking up in 300 Winchester for plains game.
If you like it, you buy it - as simple as it is.

If you buy it be aware what are you paying for:
It is meant to be modular rifle, which means you can excange parts, as well as barrels?
Do you need exchangable barrels? Do you need modular rifle?

Then, the rifle is successor of previous model 202.
404 has aluminium alloy action.
In order to keep it safe, locking of bolt is done in the barrel, not in action.
This is Ok solution, Many makers do the same.
The question is, are you OK, with aluminium action, lightened rifle? Or do you want steel?

Finally, the magazine.
This is supposed to be high end rifle. And personally I consider a single stack magazine a short cut from that standard. Extended single stacks magazines are available, but they will not be flush with stock. This is about eastetics, not about function. Are you Ok with that?

All, in all - if you like - you buy it, additional features of modular rifle are making a higher price tag, if you need it or willing to pay for, go ahead.
Consider other models as well Sauer 101, Sauer 100. They are not modular, but also very nice rifles.
 
First let me welcome you to AH.

There are lots of choices when it comes to rifles and it's not always easy.
Push feed vs CRF...Wood vs synthetic...Modular system vs purpose built rifle.
And the list never ends but there is one out there for everyone.
No wrong answers if it works for you.
The good news is, there is almost always a used gun market if your tastes change.

I will say this, I wish someone had clued me in 25 years ago about the Blaser R93.
 
I will say this, I wish someone had clued me in 25 years ago about the Blaser R93.

BeeMaa, can you sat few more words on this point?
 
And I was blessed that my gunsmith friend recommended a pre 64 Winchester FW .308 40 years ago.
Still shooting sub MOA and drops everything that I can make it hit.
 

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I own a 404 Synchro XT as well as a 202, along with an R93 and a number of R8s. If you want a "rotary-bolt Blaser" the 404 is a good choice.

My 404 is a 22" 6.5 CM that I got for mountain hunting. The engineering and manufacturing are exceptional, like you'd expect from any product from the Blaser Group. The XT is the first thumbhole stock I have ever liked, much better than the L/R hand-specific R8 Professional Success I own but that is subjective I suppose. The system to change barrels/bolt heads is pretty ingenious in my opinion, the trigger is excellent and easily adjustable to four weights. The takedown tool in the front sling mount spigot is very elegant and useful. Mine hovers around .25 MOA with Hornady 143 ELD-H and a Swarovski Z8i 2-16. The action is extremely smooth, the bolt lift is light and the extraction/ejection are very positive. The magazine is very high quality, and the magazine release button can be slide forward to lock the magazine in.

The optic mounting system is brilliant but frustrating as Sauer makes the only mounts. There is some irony in calling the the Sauer Universal Mount, there is nothing universal about it and they're around $600 USD. It seems to me that any other number of mounting standards would help the rifle gain popularity. While the base is different they do use Blaser-pattern rings so you can get Spuhr or Tier One rings for the factory QD base, which are much better than the current Blaser/Sauer rings that snap over your tube in my opinion.

The transport cases (particularly the $2000 carbon fiber case) are very neat, relatively inconspicuous, and have a very small footprint.

All in all I am very happy with it and will probably be buying a few more barrels in the next few months. I'm happy to break it apart and take pictures of anything you are curious about.
 
BeeMaa, can you sat few more words on this point?
Right now I'm going through a rifle transformation and consolidation of sorts.
My current rifle battery is being depleted in favor of the Blaser R8 system.
Blaser introduced thier first straight pull rifle in 1993 and called it the R93.
There were some issues with the R93 platform, but overall it performed well and is still a viable platform.
The Blaser R8 was introduced (I believe in 2013) as the replacement to the R93.

If I knew then, what I know now...I wouldn't be doing a change out.
I'd already be there.

Let's just say that AH has provided a valuable firearms and optics education.
Thank you to all the "enablers" who continue to help empty my bank account as fast as I can fill it.
Cheers and Happy Christmas to you all.
 
Thanks for the welcome and perspectives.

I have been on the fence on a switch barrel rifle and was leaning to R8 but for reasons referenced above the 404 has my attention when they showed it to me and all the features.

I did some safe cleaning this year and am looking to make a couple of replacements and most likely something by the Blaser group.

In regards to the breakdown case it comes with, it is sturdy enough for international flights?

I agree on the Mauser 03 but can’t seem to find one around.

Going on my first trip to Africa in 2020 to Botswana. Was thinking maybe the 404 in 300 Winchester for plains game.
 
I probably wouldn’t check it in the case (which is around $400 for the plastic case). I’d rather use a Pelican or Storm case with how baggage handlers treat stuff. I have the Blaser Pelican for my R8 and a spare barrel that I use for travel, I’m sure something similar for the Sauer could be made.

All of my Blasers and Sauers have come in a cardboard box except my F16 clays gun, it came in a Negrini case.

For a single rifle quiver for anything on the planet, an R8 is pretty hard to argue but the 404 is a close second for me. My R8 in .308 is slightly more accurate, but the 404/6.5CM is still a 1/2 MOA gun.

I also have a 6.5PRC Mauser M18 I paid a whopping $400 for that shoots 1/2-5/8 MOA with factory Hornady ELD-H.
 
That is what I was assuming but figured I would ask to confirm.
 
Thanks for the welcome and perspectives.

I have been on the fence on a switch barrel rifle and was leaning to R8 but for reasons referenced above the 404 has my attention when they showed it to me and all the features.

I did some safe cleaning this year and am looking to make a couple of replacements and most likely something by the Blaser group.

In regards to the breakdown case it comes with, it is sturdy enough for international flights?

I agree on the Mauser 03 but can’t seem to find one around.

Going on my first trip to Africa in 2020 to Botswana. Was thinking maybe the 404 in 300 Winchester for plains game.
I recently bought a (used) 300WM Blaser R8 Professional Safari that came with the Pelican 1700 case.
The rifle and case had already been to Africa once and shows some handling marks, but it's fine.
We went to Africa in May/June 2019 and packed two rifles in a Pelican 1750 and that worked very well too.
When my wife's Blaser R8 shows up, I'm gonna see if I can fit both our rifles and 3 barrels in the 1700.
Not sure if it will fit, but I have the 1700 case to fall back on.

As for the caliber, any .30 caliber or 7mm magnums should be just fine up to Eland.
For Eland most recommend .338 to 375 caliber, but you should consult your PH as well.

Just as important as caliber and shot placement is bullet selection.
Personally, I can not recommend highly enough the Swift A-Frame bullets for PG
However, any of the premium bonded/monometal bullets like Barnes TSX/TTSX or Norma Oryx will work fine.
I took 9 head of PG with 375H&H 300 grain Swift A-Frames and here are some recovered bullets.

Good luck on your decision and upcoming hunt.
 
BeeMaa-Thanks for the photos and advice. Very helpful.
 
Sauer 404 Initial Review


Disclaimer: I am a huge fan of Blaser, Mauser, and Sauer, and I have a good friend who works in the US office so I am a bit biased. That said, I did pay for the gun and nobody asked me to write a review, I just really like it and wish more people knew about them. I'll add pics when I find my card reader.

When I decided to add a make a new addition to my pile of various Blaser, 700 pattern, Model 70, Mauser, Sako, and Tikka rifles, I was turned on to the J.P. Sauer 404 by a close friend. There was not much info in the US, but as a friend at the Blaser Group told me, “It’s a turn bolt equivalent to the Blaser R8.” As the same company owns Blaser, Mauser, and J.P. Sauer, that wasn’t a surprise. I wanted a modular gun capable of going from varmint to dangerous game calibers. The obvious choice is an R8, but I already had that covered, along with an R93. I was already familiar with the Sauer 202, which is the predecessor to the 404, and I really liked that rifle. The biggest changes are the 404 is one receiver size where the 202 had standard and magnum receivers, and the bolt itself is modular on the 404.

I went to the US office of the Blaser Group and got a walkthrough of the 404 along with a chance to build the gun in different configurations. I settled on a 404 Synchro XT with a one-off 22” threaded 6.5 Creedmoor barrel, complete with iron sights. A customer had ordered the barrel custom from Germany and changed his mind so it was available. A transfer to my FFL later, I was up and running.

http://www.jpsauer-usa.com/sauer-404/


Overall impressions:
It is indeed a turn-bolt cousin of the Blaser R-series. A bolt head, mag, and barrel change take it from .243 Winchester to .404 Jeffrey with the same ease as the R8/R93. Currently the chambering options are more limited than the R8, but I am sure more are coming. The machining, finishing, and injection molding are world class with no imperfections. The rubber panels on the stock are flawlessly inset at a level of perfection I have not seen in 20 years as a professional gun guy, the last 8 in injection molding of firearms accessories. The gun is expensive but there is no doubt you are paying for quality when you handle it. The sum of all the specialized coatings and materials used means it should fare very well in foul weather.

Barrel: The barrel is hammer forged high vanadium steel with a nitride finish. Having previously used a good number of Blaser barrels, I had no doubt the barrel would perform to those same high standards. Mine is factory threaded M15x1, and has barrel-mounted rifle sights. The bolt lugs lock into the barrel itself, not into receiver recesses like most common bolt action rifles.

Fore-end:
The fore end attaches with a novel 1/4-turn screw in a mounting block, which secures to a spigot on the receiver. It also protects the sides of the receiver when installed and has a rubber insert for positive traction. On the front, a seemingly-standard QD sling swivel is installed. When you remove the Sauer swivel however a folding 5mm hex wrench reveals itself, which can be used to adjust the trigger or break the rifle apart. Alternately, a carbon bipod can be inserted.

Stock:
I opted for the Synchro XT stock, a thumbhole arrangement with an adjustable cheek riser. I owned a Blaser R8 Professional Success previously, which uses a left- or right-hand specific grip. I eventually traded it for a standard R8 professional, as I couldn’t get used to the grip and have never been a fan of thumbholes in general. Given my past disdain for thumbholes I was pleasantly surprised to find a very comfortable, confidence inspiring grip for my hand size. The palm swell is generous and ergonomic, the rubber traction pads provide the right about of traction while still allowing to adjust hand position if needed, and the trigger-to-grip relationship felt about perfect to me. Trigger reach is adjustable for a more refined fit, more on that later. The rear 6 o’clock has a QD sling swivel cup inset, but similar to the front a QD swivel with an integrated 4mm hex wrench is inserted, which is the right length to fit in the thumbhole and remove the stock. If you want to get really fancy, a rechargeable grip heater is available so you can shoot gloveless/thin gloves in cold conditions. Yes, much like your BMW or Mercedes steering wheel, you can heat the grip via an app on your phone.

The butt pad is rubber, provides great traction, and probably help with felt recoil (the 6.5CM is pretty light). The top hole in the rear provides access to the 5mm bolt that is used to set the comb height. The comb has no movement when locked down and has a scale on the side for repeatability when setting the height. Of note, the comb must be lowered or stock removed to remove the bolt.

Receiver:

The gun is light, and we owe that to an anodized aluminum receiver. The mag well, barrel interface, optics mounting points, and receiver body are all one piece. The finish and machining are flawless.

With the handguard removed, 3 screws and a cam lever/spigot are exposed under the barrel. This is the magical barrel change assembly. Loosens screws in numerical order 1-2-3, pull lever perpendicular to barrel, remove barrel. Install barrel on indexing notch, push lever parallel to barrel, tighten in numerical order 1-2-3. Barrel changes are that easy.


The receiver has 2 Sauer Universal Mount (SUM) points on top for adding a scope mount. The mount is anything but universal. It is a proprietary mounting pattern on used only on the 404. No aftermarket options exist that I have found, and the mounts are QD similar to a Blaser saddle. There is currently no cant option for long range shooting, but the Sauer saddle accepts Blaser pattern rings. I do not like the newer Blaser/Sauer rings as they are narrower than your tube at the widest point and have to be snapped over, so I replaced the straight away with Spuhr Blaser Aesthetic rings. I have a set of Tier One UK 20MOA rings on order.

The magazine well accepts a single column magazine of 4rds (flush) and 5rds (extended). The mag catch button is unobtrusive and unlikely to be bumped, but if that is a concern sliding the button to the rear locks the mag in manually. Mags fall free when released.

A hole on the side has Roman numerals I-IV and access to a hex wrench. More on that later.

Trigger:
The trigger is great. For the record, I am not particularly trigger sensitive; I’ll usually shoot whatever OK. It is crisp with no creep, and is adjustable for reach (.3 inch) and cant (5-degrees left/right). The four previously mentioned Roman numerals on the side of the receiver correspond to 4 pre-determined trigger weights. They are positively detented and prevent the user from adjusting the trigger so low the mechanism is unsafe. The pull is set using the same tool you use to take the rifle down. The range is from 1.7-2.7lbs in ~.25lb increments. On the left side of the trigger guard is the bolt release. It is very small and unobtrusive, I can’t imagine it affecting anyone’s grip.

Bolt:
The bolt is pretty unique. It has 6 massive locking lugs that lock directly into the barrel. The bolt body is jeweled, and the bolt handle is round, replaceable, and sized about to my preference as it sits. The safety is the familiar Blaser cocking/decocking mechanism, which lock the bolt when uncocked. The bolt can be opened on safe by sliding the lever up about 3mm. I do not believe the safety on the Sauer actuates iC-equipped Zeiss or Blaser optics.

The bolt head is a particularly interesting piece to me. On the older 202 rifles, the entire bolt has to be replaced to change calibers. The 404 has a locking slider that releases/retains the bolt head in a large dovetail. The firing pin is two pieces. Two very large sprung ejectors on the bolt face handle tossing your fired cases, and a clip spring extractor provides positive extraction.

Manual of arms:

This rifle requires the same pushing of a slider on the rear of the bolt to put it on fire and cock it that a Blaser rifle uses. This wasn’t a problem for me as a Blaser shooter, but it is different than many other rifles. I think anyone can easily get used to it. Other than that specific feature it is the same as any turn-bolt rifle. The bolt lift is very light, and the action is extremely smooth. You can run the bolt very fast. Nothing to report here other than an obviously nice rifle, no news is good news.

Accuracy:
I have had very good luck with Hornady ELD-H Precision Hunter 143gr for accuracy, consistency, and terminal performance. Since I had a bunch, that’s what I took to the range for the 404. Scope is a Swarovski Z8I 2-16x50 BRX-I in Spuhr 30MM Blaser rings. Previously mentioned factory Sauer QD saddle was used. It fed fine, extracted fine, ejected fine…again, no news is good news. One of the magazine engineers I showed it to commented “this is the right way to feed a bolt gun from a magazine, everyone else is doing it wrong” from a presentation height and round retention/control standpoint, for what that s worth. Accuracy hovered around .35 MOA for a 10rd group. I did not clock it for velocity to compare against my other 22” 6.5CM barrels, but I will at some point. The gun is a shooter, and I think with some minor stock fitment changes and natural light, it will settle at .25 MOA or so. The indoor range I shoot one is really nice but the lighting conditions are not ideal on any indoor range. I will definitely follow up as I build data on the gun. I am taking it hunting in late February in TX so I hope to get it wrapped up by then.


How does it compare/random musings:

I think the Blaser R8 is the most apples-to-apples comparison as they are both very easily and widely configurable.

Price and accuracy are comparable to a Blaser R8 with the same features/options.

It is ~5” longer than an R8 due to the more conventional turn-bolt receiver layout.

I prefer the trigger on the 404 over the R8, for adjustment reasons (both in reach/cant and pull weight).

You can go from hard-use synthetic-stocked base gun to Grade-expensive wood on the same receiver with the 404. You can sort of do this on an R8 with the Jaeger receiver, but I think they only do wood for them now. I don’t think I would use this option but I could see people doing it.

I think caliber changes are equally painless on the R8 and 404.

I think the build quality is equal on the R8 and 404, both are excellent
The rubber traction inserts on both stocks provide excellent grip

I prefer the adjustable stock on the 404 to the Professional R8 I am shooting now.

As fast as the 404 can be run, the R8 straight-pull is just so fast it is hard to compete.

The R8 has many more chamberings offered currently, to include a rimfire kit. .22LR to elephant gun on the same chassis is pretty cool to me.

Barrel changes require and optics swap or re-zero on the 404, as the optic mounts to the receiver. If you have each R8 barrel scoped the changeover is that much easier.

The 404 has all the takedown tools needed integrated into the stock.

Neither the 404 or R8 are particularly painless for adding a bipod, but the R8 does have a spot for a Harris 2A add-on stud. It requires the stock to be drilled, and the 404 seems to omit this provision. Both models have a $600 carbon fiber proprietary bipod option if that floats your boat.

The mounts are fairly comparably priced and unique to the guns. The Blaser has a number of more affordable quality aftermarket mounts from Contessa and around a dozen others. Most aren’t available in the US without some hassle. For the Sauer you have no choice but to buy the Sauer QD mount currently. You’ll be sitting around $750 to get your optic on the rifle. I need you guys to buy guns, so companies make mounts, so I can get the mounts I want. Just throwing it out there. Sauer supports 1”/30mm/34mm, M1913, and Zeiss/Swaro/S&B rails currently, but you can use Blaser rings on Sauer saddles for more options.

Both have really nice cases available, but the 404 can fit into one about the size of a pool cue. There is a $450 polymer version and an even smaller $2000 carbon fiber version that is straight out of Formula One. I can’t argue there is a ton of utility with the carbon case there but it is damn cool. I drive a Tacoma so I am probably not the target customer for that one.

Both rifles are well supported with accessories by the manufacturer. The accessories are not cheap, but they are very well done. The Blaser straight-pull has been around for over 25 years so it’s obviously got a giant head start. No aftermarket exists for the Sauer 404 at this time.

Summary:
If I had said “If you like the Blaser but prefer a turn bolt this is your gun” at the beginning I could have saved a bunch of typing. Mine purchased a la carte from Eurooptic would run around $6000. It should be an excellent gun for that price tag, so it’s good that it lives up to the expectations. I'm glad I have an R8 and a 404, so I don't have to choose. It would be a tough one if I had to pick. I'll update any observations when I get the 300WM or 375 H&H conversion.

It is very accurate and extremely well engineered. So is a $700 Tikka, but you gain the switch caliber capability and build quality. I can’t answer whether we’re past someone’s point of diminishing returns and value of course, but to me the rifle is worth what it costs. I am a gun nerd for a living, and this is one of the first that I have gotten this excited about in a good while. Plus, you can’t put a Mercedes steering wheel heater in a Tikka grip.
 

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Thanks for the review. That is really the same way I am looking at it. The two things that give me pause are lack of mount options which isn’t a deal killer. The bigger item in my list for the 404 or R8 is slow twist rates for the calibers. I think the 300 Winchester was an 11 twist which really limits bullet choices to 180 and under. I prefer to run a heavier bullet in what I shoot.
 
Yeah, that’s the case with most European hunting rifles, Tikka and Sako are slow across the board also. I rebarreled a number of them to shoot what I want but that isn’t easy with Blaser and impossible for Sauer currently.
 
Got it. I didn’t realize that until I was able to dig out the specs online. They weren’t discussing that at the dealer. You answered my question about being able to do something after the fact.
 
sounds awesome to me , I have looked at them too and like them, do you have any groups you have shot from the rifles ? pics we could see ?
 

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