Questions about ammo

[blackpowder12bore]

First off I just want to like put it out there that I'm a real person, I'm not a"troll", whatever that is so I would appreciate it, if you have that opinion of me to keep it to yourself. I'm here to learn not just ask weird questions or whatever I actually care about the input of more experienced individuals.

I have of course always wanted to hunt Africa my entire life. However some things have happened recently that may actually provide me with the funds necessary to make this happen. I want a cape buffalo bull, amained male lion, and maybe one or two planes game. I see no sense in killing an elephant if I can't keep the tusks and they're way too smart just to kill for the heck of it.

Now that that's out of the way my questions will start. I do intend on buying a 416 Rigby before heading to africa. However if by some reason that is an impossible thing, then I will be forced to take my hella 1500 in 375 Ruger which I have experienced shooting and then familiar with and it's hoag stock and 24 inch barrel. It has fiber optic open sites and I will not be scoping it if I'm going to be hunting at 60 yards or under. Now my question about ammunition: what do you think the best weight is to take cape buffalo with the 375 Ruger which runs the 300 grain or at 2660 feet per second. There are 350 grain copper solids available from North fork bullets and cutting edge bullets and I have a company here in America that is making for me some proprietary 400 grain full metal jacket 375 caliber bullets that will go 2150 ft per second in the 375 Ruger and they are bonding them with heat and with mechanical means. That's Greek to me but it may not be to some of y'all. These 400 gr loaded ammunitions are available from this proprietary company only. They come in FMJ and soft point FP. In addition to the aforementioned ammunition at my disposal there are also all the regular Hornady,norma,federal,etc brands to choose from.

Before I ask my question about the 400 grainers I will say this. Anytime I get a bullet that I have not any experience with I always put it to the penetration test which is as follows: 16 thick wet phone books, a sheet of ar500 steel, a couple 2x4s of pine, and a 6 or 7-in pine sapling growing out of the ground. So far the only bullet that has penetrated all of the media is a 400 grain hard cast flat nose out of a 458 lotta. That being said I will have to be honest and say that I never tested the 300 grain 375 Ruger because it's penetration is already known.

If the 400 grainers for the Ruger pass this test and penetrate all of the matter without coming apart then I will use them in Africa unless some of y'all say different.

If you were going to Africa for your one and only time and the only weapon you had was a 375 Ruger and your game was cape buffalo bull male lion maybe a hippo and like an oryx or something what bullets would you use?

(Oh and there is a 7 mm Magnum scoped that is ready for the plains game)

I'm truly sorry that I'm long-winded but I would really appreciate your answers. Thank yall.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

300 gr Swift A-Frames @ 2550 fps has worked for me.

 

[grand veneur]

First off I just want to like put it out there that I'm a real person, I'm not a"troll", whatever that is so I would appreciate it, if you have that opinion of me to keep it to yourself. I'm here to learn not just ask weird questions or whatever I actually care about the input of more experienced individuals.

I have of course always wanted to hunt Africa my entire life. However some things have happened recently that may actually provide me with the funds necessary to make this happen. I want a cape buffalo bull, amained male lion, and maybe one or two planes game. I see no sense in killing an elephant if I can't keep the tusks and they're way too smart just to kill for the heck of it.

Now that that's out of the way my questions will start. I do intend on buying a 416 Rigby before heading to africa. However if by some reason that is an impossible thing, then I will be forced to take my hella 1500 in 375 Ruger which I have experienced shooting and then familiar with and it's hoag stock and 24 inch barrel. It has fiber optic open sites and I will not be scoping it if I'm going to be hunting at 60 yards or under. Now my question about ammunition: what do you think the best weight is to take cape buffalo with the 375 Ruger which runs the 300 grain or at 2660 feet per second. There are 350 grain copper solids available from North fork bullets and cutting edge bullets and I have a company here in America that is making for me some proprietary 400 grain full metal jacket 375 caliber bullets that will go 2150 ft per second in the 375 Ruger and they are bonding them with heat and with mechanical means. That's Greek to me but it may not be to some of y'all. These 400 gr loaded ammunitions are available from this proprietary company only. They come in FMJ and soft point FP. In addition to the aforementioned ammunition at my disposal there are also all the regular Hornady,norma,federal,etc brands to choose from.

Before I ask my question about the 400 grainers I will say this. Anytime I get a bullet that I have not any experience with I always put it to the penetration test which is as follows: 16 thick wet phone books, a sheet of ar500 steel, a couple 2x4s of pine, and a 6 or 7-in pine sapling growing out of the ground. So far the only bullet that has penetrated all of the media is a 400 grain hard cast flat nose out of a 458 lotta. That being said I will have to be honest and say that I never tested the 300 grain 375 Ruger because it's penetration is already known.

If the 400 grainers for the Ruger pass this test and penetrate all of the matter without coming apart then I will use them in Africa unless some of y'all say different.

If you were going to Africa for your one and only time and the only weapon you had was a 375 Ruger and your game was cape buffalo bull male lion maybe a hippo and like an oryx or something what bullets would you use?

(Oh and there is a 7 mm Magnum scoped that is ready for the plains game)

I'm truly sorry that I'm long-winded but I would really appreciate your answers. Thank yall.

I don't know what you are really planning, but while both buffalo and lion are both dangerous game, there are distinct differences regarding how they are hunted and what is required for shooting. Since you already own a rifle caliber 375 Ruger, I would use it for my first dangerous game hunt in Africa. Only afterwards, if everything has gone as hoped and you have developed a taste for this kind of hunting, I would buy a rifle caliber 416 Rigby.

 

[Firebird]

I kinda feel like you are pushing the cart ahead of the horse. Maybe do some checking into available hunts and places to do them then start working on ammunition.
That said, the 300 gr A frame in your rifle will cover the bases nicely. The 350 if you can find it. . .

 

[grand veneur]

Since good shot placement is also a topic when hunting buffalo, a cartridge like the 375 Ruger and a premium 300gr bullet is a good choice. That is sure, the terminal working of a cartridge caliber 416 with a 400gr bullet, let alone one caliber 458 with a 500gr bullet, is with the same shot placement far more spectacular; however, one must be able to handle such rifles, and even then, they really only make sense for a seasonal Africa hunter.

 

[Rare Breed]

First off I just want to like put it out there that I'm a real person, I'm not a"troll", whatever that is so I would appreciate it, if you have that opinion of me to keep it to yourself. I'm here to learn not just ask weird questions or whatever I actually care about the input of more experienced individuals.

I have of course always wanted to hunt Africa my entire life. However some things have happened recently that may actually provide me with the funds necessary to make this happen. I want a cape buffalo bull, amained male lion, and maybe one or two planes game. I see no sense in killing an elephant if I can't keep the tusks and they're way too smart just to kill for the heck of it.

Now that that's out of the way my questions will start. I do intend on buying a 416 Rigby before heading to africa. However if by some reason that is an impossible thing, then I will be forced to take my hella 1500 in 375 Ruger which I have experienced shooting and then familiar with and it's hoag stock and 24 inch barrel. It has fiber optic open sites and I will not be scoping it if I'm going to be hunting at 60 yards or under. Now my question about ammunition: what do you think the best weight is to take cape buffalo with the 375 Ruger which runs the 300 grain or at 2660 feet per second. There are 350 grain copper solids available from North fork bullets and cutting edge bullets and I have a company here in America that is making for me some proprietary 400 grain full metal jacket 375 caliber bullets that will go 2150 ft per second in the 375 Ruger and they are bonding them with heat and with mechanical means. That's Greek to me but it may not be to some of y'all. These 400 gr loaded ammunitions are available from this proprietary company only. They come in FMJ and soft point FP. In addition to the aforementioned ammunition at my disposal there are also all the regular Hornady,norma,federal,etc brands to choose from.

Before I ask my question about the 400 grainers I will say this. Anytime I get a bullet that I have not any experience with I always put it to the penetration test which is as follows: 16 thick wet phone books, a sheet of ar500 steel, a couple 2x4s of pine, and a 6 or 7-in pine sapling growing out of the ground. So far the only bullet that has penetrated all of the media is a 400 grain hard cast flat nose out of a 458 lotta. That being said I will have to be honest and say that I never tested the 300 grain 375 Ruger because it's penetration is already known.

If the 400 grainers for the Ruger pass this test and penetrate all of the matter without coming apart then I will use them in Africa unless some of y'all say different.

If you were going to Africa for your one and only time and the only weapon you had was a 375 Ruger and your game was cape buffalo bull male lion maybe a hippo and like an oryx or something what bullets would you use?

(Oh and there is a 7 mm Magnum scoped that is ready for the plains game)

I'm truly sorry that I'm long-winded but I would really appreciate your answers. Thank yall.

I’ll let others answer your ammo question. You can import your elephant tusk quite easily today from Zim as myself and many others recently have done

 

[dogcat1]

300gr TSX by Barnes is my personal favorite on over 10 trips and half dozen buffalo.

 

[dogcat1]

For the .416 Rigby - 400gr TSX and / or solids. AFrames are fine as well, if you can get them.
No need for hand loads, just use factory ammo. You are almost too close to miss....

 

[wesheltonj]

Well you asked, my two cents. Skip the 400g and use a 350g Woodleigh. Get someplace like Hendershot's to load them.

 

[MTJumbo]

I AGREE. Since you already have the Ruger 375 then that is the one to use if you have experience shooting it. I use mine for all game I hunt. Bear, elk, moose, oryx, deer etc. 300 grain soft point or solids, or 350 grain. For plains game, bullets are available in lighter grain offerings, i.e. Barnes, and others. 235 grain, 250 gr, 275 gr, 285 gr. My 375 H&H is very versitile. I have some .416's also but the 375 H&H is my choice. The Ruger 375 is about the same as the Holland & Holland rifle.

 

[MTJumbo]

Sorry I left out Woodleigh. They are great bullets. Barnes solids and Woodleigh solids are a great choice.

 

[UpNorthMI]

I'd take your .375 Ruger on your first trip for buffalo and shoot a quality 300 grain expanding bullet such as Barnes TSX or Swift A Frame. Sometimes I think we focus and worry far too much about bullet type and weight. Being able to shoot reasonably well with your rifle and bullet combination is far more important.

If I was shooting lion I would use a softer bullet however I have no actual experience shooting lion!

There is no guarantee that you are shooting at 60 yards, my first buffalo in Africa was at about 220 yards, we had struggled to find a suitable animal until the very last day, we could not get closer, you may want to think about a scope with quick release mounts.

My biggest recommendation is to get a hunt planned and go see what it is all about. In the meantime get some shooting practice in with your current rifle, selected ammo, particularly from sticks and standing freehand.

 

[Bandera]

I loaded 300 grain Barnes TSX at 2550 fps. Results where a one shot dead buffalo.
Our PH advised the group to leave the solids at home.

Could I have pushed the bullet faster? Yes, however the Hornady DGX load clocked at 2550 out of my Ruger African.

Where in the heck are you getting phonebooks these days?
I guess I could line up 39 iPhones, that might be comparable?

 

[Betterinthebush]

.375= 300gr. Barnes TSX/Banded Solids for the buff and 300gr. TBBC on the lion

.416 Rigby= 400gr. Barnes TSX/Banded Solids for the buff and 400gr Nosler Partitions on the lion

 

[Nyati]

300gr TBBC for the .375, great medicine.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

Wanted to hunt Africa my entire life. However some things have happened recently that may actually provide me with the funds necessary to make this happen. I want a cape buffalo bull, amained male lion, and maybe one or two planes game. I see no sense in killing an elephant if I can't keep the tusks and they're way too smart just to kill for the heck of it.

First off you’re asking several questions at once, and have some common misinformation in your post. To better help all of us can you answer a few questions
1) Where do you plan to hunt and for how long?
2) When do you plan to complete this hunt?
3) What are the two Plains Game species you wish to target?

Misinformation
1) it’s possible to keep sport hunted elephant tusks and import them to the US. Certain countries (Mozambique) and areas within other countries you can’t import, or it will be more troublesome. Other countries like South Africa or Cameroon (Forest Elephant) don’t allow the export of the ivory at this time.
2) Not all lions hunted in Africa are importable to the US. This is especially true with South Africa, please be aware of this when booking your lion hunt. Expect the lion portion of your hunt to be six figures if you want importable and high chances of success.
3) Penetration = Success; I think you’re confusing softs and solids, and to further complicate is controlled expansion softs vs traditional softs, and mono-metals

Ammo:
1) 375 - 300gr Trophy Bonded Bear Claws, A-Frames, or TSX’s will be all you need on Buffalo. The first two are a controlled expansion soft, the TSX is a mono-metal. Some PH’s only want softs in the gun, I personally always keep a solid (where penetration matters) as my 2nd and 3rd shots. The exception was my last hunt in Mozambique due to hunting herds in the swamp. On the lion you’re fine with a controlled expansion bullet but lions don’t have thick skin and you can go down to a true soft point. Idea being you want as much of that energy to dump inside the cat and a bullet that doesn’t exit does that. You can even use 235 or 250gr .375 projectiles here. I’ve used a 250gr Bear Claws on a buffalo.

2) .416 - shoot the same bullet options in a 400gr weight projectile.

 

[blackpowder12bore]

300 gr Swift A-Frames @ 2550 fps has worked me.

Thank you kindly for your input, it is much appreciated and I have heard very much good things about the 300 Swift a frame. The factory rounds from my Ruger running 300@2660, 400@2150, and I don't know about the 350s. If the 400 full metal jackets I'm going to be getting past the penetration/toughness test without coming apart then I will feel safe using them on buffalo. Both flat point SPS and full metal jackets. But I will also feel good using North fork 350s if necessary. But as an expanding bullet I would probably go with the Swift a frame you have mentioned. Thank you sir.

 

[blackpowder12bore]

Well you asked, my two cents. Skip the 400g and use a 350g Woodleigh. Get someplace like Hendershot's to load them.

Thank you sir. I use hendershots for the ammo that they carry or something I want loaded and I also use Superior ammunition in South Carolina, a guy named Lonnie, will load anything you want. I do have a small proprietorship that makes bonds and sales bullets but I will not take his bullets to Africa without testing them thoroughly using a penetration and toughness test I have created by myself that I believe is a fair judge of bullet toughest and penetration.
But in all honesty I will probably not take a prototype bullet to Africa I will use North fork cutting edge bullets or something similar.

 

[blackpowder12bore]

First off you’re asking several questions at once, and have some common misinformation in your post. To better help all of us can you answer a few questions
1) Where do you plan to hunt and for how long?
2) When do you plan to complete this hunt?
3) What are the two Plains Game species you wish to target?

Misinformation
1) it’s possible to keep sport hunted elephant tusks and import them to the US. Certain countries (Mozambique) and areas within other countries you can’t import, or it will be more troublesome. Other countries like South Africa or Cameroon (Forest Elephant) don’t allow the export of the ivory at this time.
2) Not all lions hunted in Africa are importable to the US. This is especially true with South Africa, please be aware of this when booking your lion hunt. Expect the lion portion of your hunt to be six figures if you want importable and high chances of success.
3) Penetration = Success; I think you’re confusing softs and solids, and to further complicate is controlled expansion softs vs traditional softs, and mono-metals

Ammo:
1) 375 - 300gr Trophy Bonded Bear Claws, A-Frames, or TSX’s will be all you need on Buffalo. The first two are a controlled expansion soft, the TSX is a mono-metal. Some PH’s only want softs in the gun, I personally always keep a solid (where penetration matters) as my 2nd and 3rd shots. The exception was my last hunt in Mozambique due to hunting herds in the swamp. On the lion you’re fine with a controlled expansion bullet but lions don’t have thick skin and you can go down to a true soft point. Idea being you want as much of that energy to dump inside the cat and a bullet that doesn’t exit does that. You can even use 235 or 250gr .375 projectiles here. I’ve used a 250gr Bear Claws on a buffalo.

2) .416 - shoot the same bullet options in a 400gr weight projectile.

That's interesting you took a buffalo with a 250 grain bullet but then again people are telling me that my 9.3x62 with its 286 screen bullet or my 338 Winchester Magnum with a 250 grain bullet will also be a good buffalo gun.

I find great information and all that you have said and I will now tell you that I have decided to forgo the line hunt due to the fact that it is unimportable from some places and that I do not have the money to make it happen.


But as for what you said, I'm not confusing soft and solids I must have misspoke. And I'm sorry for making it confusing. I am fully well educated on bullets and yes there are not only soft but there are controlled expansion softs (DGS) things like Swift a frames, and just plain old soft lids soft for boys that expand normally.

What I was saying is that I have a proprietorship here that has made from scratch 400 grain 375 Ruger loads in soft nose and full metal jacket flat nose loadings. I refuse to use one of their full metal jacket 400 grainers unless I have put it through my own personal penetration and toughness test which I have described earlier but which I will now describe again as 14 HUGE THICK wet phone books, a sheet of ar500 steel, some 2x4 timbers, and a 7-in pine tree. The only thing that has gone through the entire test is the 460 Weatherby with a 500 grain solid and the 458 lot with a 400 grain hardcast lead flat nose. I did not try the 300 grain 375 Ruger on it yet. Nothing else has passed it and I have several Big bore rifles.

When you said penetration=success, were you being serious or were you being sarcastic LOL

I will tell you some more information that will maybe give you a better way to answer me. My budget will be $20,000 but I may be able to increase it to 26. I will leave off the line and any planes game and all I really want is a great Buffalo bull. It will be just me as I will leave the wife at home to save money and although I do want to take in the entire African experience I would rather go there and kill one dangerous game then kill seven planes game. I have a feeling that killing plains game may be like killing huge deer.
Every Hunter's dream is to hunt Africa... And I do not want to go there without killing a DG.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

That's interesting you took a buffalo with a 250 grain bullet but then again people are telling me that my 9.3x62 with its 286 screen bullet or my 338 Winchester Magnum with a 250 grain bullet will also be a good buffalo gun.

Your 338WM won’t be legal in many countries you can hunt Cape buffalo in. Leave that one at home unless you want it for PG. 9.3x62 with a 286gr will do the job. It’s not so much about the size of the bullet but where you place it. There are reports from Dr Robertson and other PH’s of heart shot, or lung shot buffalo continuing for hours, days, and weeks. Buffalo are tough, it’s why the controlled expansion helps since the wound channel is getting larger, especially when going through bone.

I just shot one with a 480gr 450NE. I center punched the middle of the front lung and clipped the back of the offside lung, didn’t break shoulder, getting a complete pass through. The wound channel stayed roughly the same size as the hornady DGX bullet telling me it never expanded. Second shot was also a DGX on a running buffalo an 90-100yds with iron sights. I hit 1” above the spine on the neck and he didn’t even stumble, got into the middle of the herd and took off. We stayed on them for mult miles, despite both shots and only got really lucky that after about 2 miles he couldn’t keep up with the herd and we noticed a few cattle egrets elsewhere. Walking up he wass only identifiable because of the hit on his neck, and Rudolph like nose from the lung blood. Shooting off sticks, with an iron sighted double, through saw grass the shot was good but not good enough and I didn’t fully realize how he was positioned and should’ve shot a few more in heat forward to ensure I broke the shoulder. With a scoped 375 pushing a 250 or 300gr Bear Claw or A-Frame I’m confident he would’ve been down within minutes of the first shot instead of hours.