Powder used in Factory loads

[Nosler guy]

Is there any absolute and reliable source for finding out what powders were used in various Factory Loads ?

A bit of background : Many moons ago, in my infinite wisdom of youth, I decided I was going to be a "One Rifle" North American hunter. That rifle would be a .300 Weatherby Mag. It was in a Remington 700 Classic. The rifle shot well. After a few years and a truck load of game that included a few blown to bits Pronghorns, a lot of very dead deer, hunting heavy brush, sitting 50 yard bear baits - I started to realize that the big cannon wasn't really the answer. Thank goodness I never emptied the gun case during that time. Now when I reach into the gun safe, more often than not the old '06 or a .300 Win come out.

So the Weatherby is moving on. However, way back when, I stumbled into a pretty good deal on a whack of .300 Weatherby ammo, so I stocked up. Still have 100 rounds of Weatherby - 180 gr Nosler Partition and a 100 rounds of Remington Premium Safari Grade loaded with 200 gr Swift A frames. Shopped that ammo around at a few gun shows and sales, only getting ridiculously lowball prices, less than the value of the bullets. Shipping ammo in Canada is a pain in the ass.

So - planning on pulling the bullets (I will use them, myself, especially the A frames) should have no problem moving/selling the brass, probably get more for it than the low ball prices for the loaded stuff. Planned on dumping the powder. Buddy says - yu sure there isn't some way to verify what it is and possibly salvage it. Got me thinking ...

Anybody have any ideas, available resources, better than a visual comparison and a wild assed guess ???

 

[JimP]

I've investigate this a couple of times and came to the conclusion that you can't.

The factories that are loading ammo will use ABC powder this week and XYZ next week. I believe that the only common factor is the burn rates of the powders.

Even when I have found a factory round that I liked and shot quite well I would chronograph that load out of my rifle and then drag out the loading books to see if I could duplicate it. And I am sure that I ever used the same powder that the factory did.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

No. Ammunition companies use powders that are often different that sold to us hand loaders. Even when a company uses a common canisterpowder, for example Winchester 357 magnum ammo is loaded with 296, it may be different in burn rate than canister grade 296.

 

[Andrew NOLA]

Let’s say there’s 90 grains of powder per shell times 200 shells = 18,000 grains

18,000 Grains divided by 7000 grains a pound equals 2.6 pounds

You’d have to develop a load with guess work using a powder that you would never be able to get again

If you did so, and you found something that grouped excellently and had great velocity and mild recoil, you would never be able to duplicate it cause you’d never be able to get that powder a second time

 

[Flbt]

Is there any absolute and reliable source for finding out what powders were used in various Factory Loads ?

A bit of background : Many moons ago, in my infinite wisdom of youth, I decided I was going to be a "One Rifle" North American hunter. That rifle would be a .300 Weatherby Mag. It was in a Remington 700 Classic. The rifle shot well. After a few years and a truck load of game that included a few blown to bits Pronghorns, a lot of very dead deer, hunting heavy brush, sitting 50 yard bear baits - I started to realize that the big cannon wasn't really the answer. Thank goodness I never emptied the gun case during that time. Now when I reach into the gun safe, more often than not the old '06 or a .300 Win come out.

So the Weatherby is moving on. However, way back when, I stumbled into a pretty good deal on a whack of .300 Weatherby ammo, so I stocked up. Still have 100 rounds of Weatherby - 180 gr Nosler Partition and a 100 rounds of Remington Premium Safari Grade loaded with 200 gr Swift A frames. Shopped that ammo around at a few gun shows and sales, only getting ridiculously lowball prices, less than the value of the bullets. Shipping ammo in Canada is a pain in the ass.

So - planning on pulling the bullets (I will use them, myself, especially the A frames) should have no problem moving/selling the brass, probably get more for it than the low ball prices for the loaded stuff. Planned on dumping the powder. Buddy says - yu sure there isn't some way to verify what it is and possibly salvage it. Got me thinking ...

Anybody have any ideas, available resources, better than a visual comparison and a wild assed guess ???

I am. Not a handloade.
But I have read a lot of hunting and gun magazines and books.
I remember reading that some ammo is loaded with powder not available to the public.
Especially weatherbey ammo.

So if that’s true I would guess there no loading info on powder not available to the public.

 

[Nosler guy]

Thanks guys - pretty much reiterating what I have heard over the years - never hurts to ask for a second opinion though ...

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

Factory ammunition is loaded in "lots". For military contracts, manufactures must adhere to Military Standard 1168, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIL-STD-1168

For commercial ammunition, manufactures adhere to SAAMI specifications, https://saami.org/technical-information/cartridge-chamber-drawings/

All components in each lot of ammunition are the same. Same bullets. cases, primers, and powder. The final configuration is also the same for each lot, i.e. same overall length...

The lot numbers of ammunition are found on each box, be that military or commercial ammo.

As for which powders a specific lot of ammo includes, that may not be the same for different lots,

• Manufactures load ammo to make a profit. They may switch powders from lot to lot so long as the ammo's pressure and muzzle velocity are within specifications.
• Ammo manufacturers have access to powders and primers that are not available to handloaders. The Federal 216 Magnum primer is an example. It produces more energy for igniting gunpowder in magnum loads than does the commercially available 215M.
• The powder and weight of charge will be the same in a specific lot, but may be different in another lot.
• Commercial ammo is produced to meet performance specifications, i.e.
  • Chamber in all SAAMI spec chambers
  • 165 grain Super-Duper bullet with muzzle velocity of 2850 feet oer second (plus or minus xx fps)
• Most commercial ammo is NOT shot in competition. Nor do many shooters measure the velocity of each lot they shoot.

The bottom line is one can download powder from factory ammo and try to identify it based on configuration (shape, color...), weight of charge, and compare that data to data in loading manuals. That may get one close but the manufacture may use a different powder in the next lot or the powder used may not be available to the handloader.