Paradigm Shift?

Jfet

AH legend
Joined
Mar 28, 2013
Messages
2,044
Reaction score
4,691
Media
76
Articles
3
Hunting reports
Africa
3
USA/Canada
2
Europe
1
Member of
Outdoor Tomorrow Foundation,NRA, Life Member DSC
Hunted
Texas, Oklahoma, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Namibia, South Africa, Spain, Tanzania, and now Tajikistan
Are we going to be like those people that opposed the transition from muzzle loader to bolt action? It seems to me in the shooting community, there are those who always want to change and then there are those who never want to change.:A Stirring:

 
Remind me who the people were who opposed the transition from muzzle loader to bolt action. I seem to have missed out on that phase in history.

The opposite of what you are talking about is "change for the sake of change". It seems to me that there is a good deal of that nowadays. For one thing there is the proliferation of cartridges which represent little or no improvement over their predecessors.

In the 1950's, when I started getting an interest in hand loading, there were comparatively few factory cartridges and virtually no big game cartridges available. The interest in wildcat cartridges went wild. Now the situation has reversed itself and there are practically no wildcats which have not been tamed into factory cartridges or have been replaced by factory equivalents.

I can remember when the long range target shooting sport was dominated by the wildcat .30/.338 cartridge, used even by the military teams. Nowadays all the nooks and crannies of special purpose demands have been filled with factory cartridges.

As a military team shooter, I used the service rifle, a semi-automatic. As a civilian team shooter, I used a bolt gun. If I had felt handicapped with a bolt gun, I could have used the service rifle, but I never did.
 
Remind me who the people were who opposed the transition from muzzle loader to bolt action. I seem to have missed out on that phase in history.
I used the term ”bolt action” to loosely. Gen. James W. Ripley, the U.S. Army Chief of Ordinance during the American Civil War, was opposed to the use of repeating arms.

 
Remind me who the people were who opposed the transition from muzzle loader to bolt action. I seem to have missed out on that phase in history.

The opposite of what you are talking about is "change for the sake of change". It seems to me that there is a good deal of that nowadays. For one thing there is the proliferation of cartridges which represent little or no improvement over their predecessors.

In the 1950's, when I started getting an interest in hand loading, there were comparatively few factory cartridges and virtually no big game cartridges available. The interest in wildcat cartridges went wild. Now the situation has reversed itself and there are practically no wildcats which have not been tamed into factory cartridges or have been replaced by factory equivalents.

I can remember when the long range target shooting sport was dominated by the wildcat .30/.338 cartridge, used even by the military teams. Nowadays all the nooks and crannies of special purpose demands have been filled with factory cartridges.

As a military team shooter, I used the service rifle, a semi-automatic. As a civilian team shooter, I used a bolt gun. If I had felt handicapped with a bolt gun, I could have used the service rifle, but I never did.
Your comment about the 1950s is spot on. Remember old Jerry Buhmiller? He downed 164 Tanganyikan elephants … all with wildcat calibers of his own design.
 
Are we going to be like those people that opposed the transition from muzzle loader to bolt action? It seems to me in the shooting community, there are those who always want to change and then there are those who never want to change.:A Stirring:

I can relate. There are a lot of fools who still consider the Blaser R8 to be unreliable for dangerous game. Just because it isn't a true control round feed.
 
Have any of ya’ll watched the video? What do you think of the platform that this round is designed for? Is this going to be the new hunting rifle platform much like the ‘03 Springfield in the early part of the 20th Century?
 
Last edited:
Killing 2 birds with 1 stone, I split the difference and picked up a Rem 700 (bolt action, primed-cartridge ignition) Ultimate Muzzleloader on a recent trip up to ME (NOS.) It's fantastic for early seasons to enjoy the woods to yourself! Now I can't resist either. :p 'Say it all the time. In every industry they have to re-invent the latest, greatest thing-ONLY for the big $ale, not because anyone really needs it, or it's more useful. With each of the guns I have come to know and love, nothing beats the old Rem pump 06 for number of kills, so for woods hunters it was an improvement over the bolt! Good to 300 yds with the 18.5" bbl and the same scope that adorns most DG guns. Some innovations are fantastic! $adly, mo$t are not. Buy land and or invest in your kids' education, not widget$.
 
Have any of ya’ll watched the video? What do you think of the platform that this round is designed for? Is this going to be the new hunting rifle platform much like the ‘03 Springfield in the early part of the 20th Century?
This will be for a niche market, like the 300BO. It's not going to be the next big thing for sure. I do have plans on building one, it's potential for hogs suppressed should be fun.
 
If one were to build something similar and cheap, 9x39 Soviet. That one uses 9,2something very close to 9,3mm so Makarov bullets fits and x62 or so also.

For .35 version,US wildcat .35 Gremlin i think name is. Nice little stalker cartridge suppressed.
 
This will be for a niche market, like the 300BO. It's not going to be the next big thing for sure. I do have plans on building one, it's potential for hogs suppressed should be fun.
The video mentions that this round is designed for an AR platform. The purpose is to get the AR platform more hunting usable. Does the AR have the capability to replace the bolt action rifle as a hunting rifle in the same that the bolt action rifle replaced the lever action rifle.

Yes, people still hunt with the lever action rifle. However, the lever action rifle is not as prominent in the hunting world as it was in the late 1800’s.
 
The video mentions that this round is designed for an AR platform. The purpose is to get the AR platform more hunting usable. Does the AR have the capability to replace the bolt action rifle as a hunting rifle in the same that the bolt action rifle replaced the lever action rifle.

Yes, people still hunt with the lever action rifle. However, the lever action rifle is not as prominent in the hunting world as it was in the late 1800’s.
It's chambered in both AR and Bolt, you can buy pre fit barrels for rem700 right now for them. Like the 300BO, it is designed to be used with a short barrel, like 12"s.
 
As far as replacing a platform, I don't see it that way. Are they more common use, yes. Does not mean they will be replacing the bolt action.
 
It's chambered in both AR and Bolt, you can buy pre fit barrels for rem700 right now for them. Like the 300BO, it is designed to be used with a short barrel, like 12"s.
In the video it discussed that it is the mass of the bullet that is being used to generate force. This allows the use of a shorter barrel since efficient burning of powder to gain velocity is not the key component. The video mentions that this is basically going back to the old muzzle loaders of the early 1800’s. Does the AR have the versatility to become the dominant hunting rifle in North America or will it just do it by being “Cool”?
 
I can relate. There are a lot of fools who still consider the Blaser R8 to be unreliable for dangerous game. Just because it isn't a true control round feed.
Stop It! Don’t turn this into an R8 discussion. My R8 performed flawlessly over 14 days in Tanzania last year. This is the Cape buffalo I took with it on day 14. The rifle worked smoothly through all 6 shots. The nut behind the bolt was a little shakey.:E Excited:
1658947400269.jpeg
 
I guess I'm that old curmudgeon. I haven't seen a new caliber since the late 60s that wasn't duplicating or worse had less performance than calibers that were already established. Ruger 375 vs 375 H&H or 375 Weatherby, 6.5mm Creedmore vs 264 Win Mag, 270 WSM vs 270 Win or 270 Weatherby. I can't think of a new caliber from 6mm up to .510 caliber that's any better than the ones created before 1970.
 
I guess I'm that old curmudgeon. I haven't seen a new caliber since the late 60s that wasn't duplicating or worse had less performance than calibers that were already established. Ruger 375 vs 375 H&H or 375 Weatherby, 6.5mm Creedmore vs 264 Win Mag, 270 WSM vs 270 Win or 270 Weatherby. I can't think of a new caliber from 6mm up to .510 caliber that's any better than the ones created before 1970.
I agree here, the only one that I see with an advantage is the .375 Ruger vs the .375 H&H, the reason for the advantage for the Ruger is it fits in a 30-06 length action so it’s a little less expensive. My 2 cents
 
Your comment about the 1950s is spot on. Remember old Jerry Buhmiller? He downed 164 Tanganyikan elephants … all with wildcat calibers of his own design.
I think you mean John Buhmiller, who killed 127 elephants, primarily with cartridges of his own design, such as the one he created from the .378 Weatherby, which he necked up to .458 and Weatherby later adopted as the .460 Weatherby. I used a Weatherby case shortened to 2.500" and necked up to .505 caliber in a Buhmiller barrel to kill three elephants, five Cape buffalo and a rhino. I considered John my friend and mentor and it was he who invited me to a meeting of Game Coin International in San Antonio where I booked by first African hunt in 1971.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
53,938
Messages
1,140,984
Members
93,261
Latest member
SunnyOkn64
 

 

 

Latest profile posts

Because of some clients having to move their dates I have 2 prime time slots open if anyone is interested to do a hunt
5-15 May
or 5-15 June is open!
shoot me a message for a good deal!
dogcat1 wrote on skydiver386's profile.
I would be interested in it if you pass. Please send me the info on the gun shop if you do not buy it. I have the needed ammo and brass.
Thanks,
Ross
Francois R wrote on Lance Hopper's profile.
Hi Lance hope you well. The 10.75 x 68 did you purchase it in the end ? if so are you prepared to part with it ? rgs Francois
 
Top