Out Of The Vault After 22 Years

[John P.]

This one has been silently aging in the vault since 1999. 5500 ft/lbs.

Thought I would post some info for others to see before I head to the Happy hunting Grounds. It would be a shame for a gun dealer junky to find it and dispose of it with no history.

The rifle was modified in my shop following a design by one of the lever gun experts. I had fun building it but it was a real chore and sometimes a dog gone absolute pain. A lot of changes and modifications to make the big case work in the Marlin. Still needs a bit of work but it is basically functionally. I gave up on the project due to the combination of health issues, runaway diabetes, and a divorce all at once. Thus it was stashed in the vault while I tried to piece together my future. Think I got on the wrong side of a couple of folks due to the never ending project but that is all history now.

So: A couple of photos then I will wait to see if any of you want the details. All the machining work was documented, along with test fire data using the Oehler M43, so I have actual velocity and pressure data for the loads.

The test rifle, a single shot M98. 30 foot lanyard. The big piece of channel iron weighs 100 pounds and would move back about 6 inches for each shot. Note the strain gauge on the barrel at the chamber area.

 

[TTundra]

50 Alaskan isnt there on energy....510 KE not quite either. Did you get a 50-110 into a 1895?

 

[CharlesT]

I'm very interested in hearing more. Much more.

I love stories about just "making it work" and the project sounds fascinating.

CT

 

[John P.]

50 Alaskan isnt there on energy....510 KE not quite either. Did you get a 50-110 into a 1895?

Not the Alaskan. It is Mic McPhersons 510 Kodiak. 348 Win case expanded to take the .510 bullet.

I ran many bullets through the test rifle and the Marlin. Dug out the data today, it is a stack of paperwork about 2 inches high along with a 3 ring binder with the test fire date.

Highest energy load I found in the data was with the 450 grain Hawk. 5265 ft/lbs 2295 ft/sec. Eclipses the 458 Win a bit.

I used some 510 grain Woodleighs, the COL was too long to cycle through the action, had to single load. This is the bullet that exceeded 5500 ft/lbs. I do not remember if I kept the data due to the COL problems, but I am still looking, there are more files on this project tucked away in my archives. Just gotta find it!

Now it was 22 years ago when I was doing this. Combined with my 74 year old memory all the details are not at my instant recall.

I decided to revise this project as it bears mentioning to serious big bore guys. I will be running more test loads in the near future. Especially with the Woodleigh 500 grain bullet designed for the 50-110. This bullet has a very large meplat and carries a lot of weight forward, and the crimp groove is right where it needs to be for both maximum powder charge and cycling through the internally lengthened Marlin.

All the credit for this cartridge and rifle must go to Mic McPherson, he designed both the cartridge and the modifications to the Marlin. I am just a blue collar Machinist and carried out the work under his direction.

I lathe turned some bronze solids but never tested them. Next time!

And I have purchased NOE cast bullet molds for the rifle, I will be casting in a few weeks. Hard lead with gas checks.

There was a third party involved, he financed the project. Sadly I recently learned of his passing. This is what gave me the incentive to bring the project back to light.

Would I take on a Cape Buff with this rifle? You betcha.

 

[John P.]

The .510 on top, a stock M1895 on the bottom in 45-70.

.510 has two mercury recoil absorbers in the stock and the big Soborthan pad. Not too bad to shoot offhand, even with the brake removed. Work was done on the butt stock attachment, including a stout through bolt and a block between the tangs for the through bolt to screw into. Tang screws were enlarged. Everything was bedded with Acraglass.

9 pounds 15 ounces with 3 rounds in the magazine and 1 in chamber.

45-70 on the left. .510 on the right.

This photo is interesting. A 458 Win cartridge in the middle, flanked by the .510 cartridges. The case on the left has a 458 Win case upended in it, so you can imagine the increase in powder capacity.

Quickload was used extensively in load development. Goal was a full case and pressures that would not wreck the Marlin.

Side view of the test gun. Strain gage under the black tape. Note the recoil management with the keyed aluminum block. The steel block is secured to the channel iron with two grade 8 1/2 inch diameter bolts from underneath.

 

[John P.]

I have more photos, will put some up in a day or two.

Back when I was having health problems and going through a divorce I almost threw all the data into the burn pile. That would have been tragic!

Speaking of health issues, this one almost killed me. A MRSA infection combined with runaway diabetes, my blood sugar level was 517 at the time of this photo. 8 hours in the ER to get me below 250. Docs said If I had waited another few days I would not have made it. The nurses pulled over 100 CC's of ugly stinky Cobra Venom out of the leg.

Took 2 years for recovery!

 

[Tra3]

Wow! Fascinating project. To what would you compare the recoil?

 

[Forrest Halley]

You might look into a gunsmith that does marlin work. Man out of Tennessee goes by the Sass alias of Widowmaker Hill. Names Mike Hill IIRC. He's good with marlins.

 

[John P.]

Wow! Fascinating project. To what would you compare the recoil?

With the brake it is a big shove. I shot several rounds of 400 grain loads one handed, like a big pistol.

Brake is a Vais, they work well.

Substantial without the brake but not a bone jarring slam like my 9 pound 458 Lott.

Disadvantage of the brake is it is very loud. 80 plus grains of powder going down the barrel.

 

[John P.]

You might look into a gunsmith that does marlin work. Man out of Tennessee goes by the Sass alias of Widowmaker Hill. Names Mike Hill IIRC. He's good with marlins.

Few guys doing the big cartridge conversions on the Marlins. Takes a lot of work. Mic McPherson is the best, but I think he closed his shop, age creeps up on all of us.

Wild West Guns in Alaska is known for the 50 Alaskan.

Layne Simpson had an article in Handloader magazine in 2018 issue 312 about the 50 B&M Alaskan built by Michael McCourry. Same as the 50 Alaskan except for a .500 bullet instead of a .510. The reason for this passes me, a lot of really good .510 bullets available. Best is the 500 Woodleigh in .510. I will put up a photo of bullets later today.

No way would I build one for someone, I am just too old and have too many projects of my own. But I would like to build a 50 cal on a Browning 71 using the 500 Nitro Case shortened. With the case capacity I see an easy 2300 to 2400 ft/sec. Getting into stopping rifle category.

I think that a guy really needs pressure testing equipment when dabbling in a project as the 510 Kodiak and others. Otherwise you are "shooting blind". This is why I tested all loads in the M98 test gun before firing in the marlin.

Speaking of back burner projects on my list:

450 Ackley on a BBK
450 Dakota on a CZ 550
9.3 x 62 On a M98
300 H&H on a M98

And a few others1

In the beginning:

I made all the forming and loading dies with the chamber reamers (a resize reamer and a finishing reamer).

Smoking! Profiling the barrel. Smoke from the cutting oil, smells nice, contains Sulphur. Carbide tooling.

More later!

 

[John P.]

Some of the bullets test fired

THE!!! Bullet is the 500 grain Woodleigh. Anxious to test fire some. Note the cannelure, in the correct position for the big lever gun.

 

[John P.]

Plans include drilling out the base of the solid bronze bullets and swaging in a lead slug to increase the weight.

 

[sestoppelman]

Heck of a project! I notice you used a small ring Mauser for the test barrel. What make was it?

In what part of the PNW are you?

 

[John P.]

My little 9 inch South Bend got some of the work. Ever seen a Marlin action on a truing mandrel?

Receiver set up in the vertical milling machine. Opening up the threads for a larger barrel shank diameter.

This is a threaded test gauge, to measure the size of the receiver threads to be sure the threads are of the correct diameter for the oversize barrel shank.

 

[John P.]

Heck of a project! I notice you used a small ring Mauser for the test barrel. What make was it?

In what part of the PNW are you?

Nope, it is a large ring M98 action. Still have it fitted with the test barrel and strain gauge.

Location is west of Seattle, out on the Olympic Peninsula, in Sasquatch country. House and shop are up in the foot hills a little East of Port Angeles. Cougars and bears wander around in the canyon behind the barn.

 

[John P.]

Dialing in the barrel in the 13x40 lathe

Barrel has been threaded and chambered, testing receiver fit

 

[sestoppelman]

Must be the photo then, large ring Mausers always have a step where the side wall meets the front receiver ring. Front receiver ring would measure 1.410" if large ring.

Yeah I know where you are, nice area there. I live in Skagit Co, La Conner.

 

[John P.]

Faced rec

Must be the photo then, large ring Mausers always have a step where the side wall meets the front receiver ring. Front receiver ring would measure 1.410" if large ring.

Yeah I know where you are, nice area there. I live in Skagit Co, La Conner.

This action was in my junk box, no telling what was done to it in the past. Another gun show purchase.

 

[John P.]

Faced receiver on the right, a stock M1895 on the left. Note the uneven barrel bearing area on the M1895. This is why we fact the receivers, to give even barrel contact.

 

[John P.]

In the barrel vise