Opinions please: Pros/Cons of .375 Ruger vs .375 H&H

[Daisy]

This sums it up nicely. The cold hard truth is that neither kills game such as buffalo any deader than the other. No animal shot with either cartridge’s bullet will know the difference. For me, the H&H was the logical choice and there isn’t a single time I’ve regretted that choice. It’s simply excellent.

I’ll be shooting a 375 Ruger on a hunt next year, but only because that’s what my PH has in the Congo and I can’t take my own rifle there. Shooting a Bongo at 10 yards, it won’t matter what I’m shooting.

Except your Ruger will be 2-5” shorter in barrel, which will make hunting the Congo and its thick vegetation easier. Right?

At least that’s the reason people say they won’t use a supressor.

 

[generalzip]

The 375 Ruger may be a superior cartridge, but the rifle availability and ammo/brass availability is not. 375 Ruger is really a choice of how much you like Ruger rifles paired with Hornady ammunition. The 375 H&H is available from a large number of quality rifle manufacturers past and present and ammo and brass is widely available. If 375 Ruger were available from other quality manufacturers this would be a different discussion, but unless you’d like a custom rifle that isn’t an option.

I agree with everything you just said. My impression of this thread is it was focused on the inherit differences of the CARTRIDGE. the 375 Ruger is a better cartridge than the h&h. Full stop. This was and still is my only point.

Do other external and industrial factors play into the overall decision of which you should ultimately choose? Absolutely! But on the merits of the cartridge design itself, the 375 ruger is better. That said I own a 375 ruger Hawkeye FTW and I did not expect much out of it to be honest because my previous experience with ruger is “meh” especially as an owner of many custom builds and high end factory rifles like AI, etc. with handloads I’m getting around 1/2 moa which is just insane to me for a rifle of this price. I def feel I got lucky however and this is the exception not the rule for these rifles.

 

[375Fox]

Except your Ruger will be 2-5” shorter in barrel, which will make hunting the Congo and its thick vegetation easier. Right?

At least that’s the reason people say they won’t use a supressor.

The barrel length on a 375 Ruger African is 23” that is the same length as any 375 H&H. You’ve tried to exaggerate the difference previously in this thread. 375 Ruger barrel lengths come in 20-23” and H&H barrel lengths 21-25”.

 

[375Fox]

I agree with everything you just said. My impression of this thread is it was focused on the inherit differences of the CARTRIDGE. the 375 Ruger is a better cartridge than the h&h. Full stop. This was and still is my only point.

Do other external and industrial factors play into the overall decision of which you should ultimately choose? Absolutely! But on the merits of the cartridge design itself, the 375 ruger is better. That said I own a 375 ruger Hawkeye FTW and I did not expect much out of it to be honest because my previous experience with ruger is “meh” especially as an owner of many custom builds and high end factory rifles like AI, etc. with handloads I’m getting around 1/2 moa which is just insane to me for a rifle of this price. I def feel I got lucky however and this is the exception not the rule for these rifles.

I see it as a full discussion of the cartridge for hunting purposes. I think that has to include all aspects ballistics, ammo, rifles. There have been a lot of superior cartridges fade away. From a hunting perspective today, rifle and ammo choices beat slightly better ballistics to me.

 

[DLSJR]

Except your Ruger will be 2-5” shorter in barrel, which will make hunting the Congo and its thick vegetation easier. Right?

At least that’s the reason people say they won’t use a supressor.

Barrel length is a non-factor to me. I hunted in very thick bush on Hammond a week ago and never gave a thought to my barrel length being an issue. I don’t use suppressors or muzzle brakes on any of my guns, so that doesn’t play into my thinking at all. The rifles Congo Forest Safaris has are 375 Rugers, so that’s what I’ll shoot. If they were H&H’s, that’s what I’d shoot. If I was able to take my own rifle to the Congo, it’d be my 338 Winchester.

 

[generalzip]

The barrel length on a 375 Ruger African is 23” that is the same length as any 375 H&H. You’ve tried to exaggerate the difference previously in this thread. 375 Ruger barrel lengths come in 20-23” and H&H barrel lengths 21-25”.

I think this is a bit misleading. I think you understood his point… It’s well documented a 375 ruger with same bullet in a 20” barrel will produce the same velocity a 375 h&h does with a 24” barrel given similar pressure loads. So yes, for a given performance you seek in a 375 bullet, the 375 ruger can have a shorter barrel than the 375 h&h. Alternatively, you can lower your ruger loads to h&h levels and it will have more mild recoil due to the reduced pressure.

 

[375Fox]

I think this is a bit misleading. I think you understood his point… It’s well documented a 375 ruger with same bullet in a 20” barrel will produce the same velocity a 375 h&h does with a 24” barrel given similar pressure loads. So yes, for a given performance you seek in a 375 bullet, the 375 ruger can have a shorter barrel than the 375 h&h. Alternatively, you can lower your ruger loads to h&h levels and it will have more mild recoil due to the reduced pressure.

On a bongo hunt at 10 yards or a buffalo hunt at 50 yards I struggle to see the difference, particularly when most 375 Ruger shooters are shooting Hornady factory ammo with DGX bullets that don’t perform well on game with the extra velocity.

 

[generalzip]

I see it as a full discussion of the cartridge for hunting purposes. I think that has to include all aspects ballistics, ammo, rifles. There have been a lot of superior cartridges fade away. From a hunting perspective today, rifle and ammo choices beat slightly better ballistics to me.

Fair enough. Sounds like we were just focusing on different aspects.

 

[generalzip]

On a bongo hunt at 10 yards or a buffalo hunt at 50 yards I struggle to see the difference, particularly when most 375 Ruger shooters are shooting Hornady factory ammo with DGX bullets that don’t perform well on game with the extra velocity.

I think you’re confused with the old DGX bullet. The newer dgx bonded suffers none of the issues of its predecessor and is regarded as a very good bullet even at 375 ruger speeds

 

[375Fox]

I think you’re confused with the old DGX bullet. The newer dgx bonded suffers none of the issues of its predecessor and is regarded as a very good bullet even at 375 ruger speeds

No I’m not. The old non-bonded DGX bullet was a product that never should have made market, but the new bonded DGX is still only ok at best. Close shots on bone show what a bullet is. 375 Velocities push that bullet to something it isn’t. Same with woodleigh. Swift, Trophy bonded bear claw, Barnes are in a different class bullet.

 

[generalzip]

The 300 grain DGX bonded works very well on everything up to and including dangerous game. There's a lot of evidence even on this forum to support this claim. I think your argument is more about monolithic/hybrid vs cup and core bullet designs considering the examples you gave, which is a completely separate discussion irrelevant of cartridge. Is the DGX bonded the best bullet in .375? Likely not. Is it adequate for Africa? Yes. I don't think any PH would complain if you showed up with a 375 Ruger and 300 bonded DGX and Solids, but any PHs active here on the forum can correct me if I'm wrong.

Hornady also offers the 250 CX which is similar to a barnes ttsx of the same weight if that's your cup of tea. Anyways, I still stand by the fact the 375 Ruger is a better choice IF you handload. If you do not handload or want to order custom ammo, the H&H is the way to go for sure.

 

[375Fox]

The 300 grain DGX bonded works very well on everything up to and including dangerous game. There's a lot of evidence even on this forum to support this claim. I think your argument is more about monolithic/hybrid vs cup and core bullet designs considering the examples you gave, which is a completely separate discussion irrelevant of cartridge. Is the DGX bonded the best bullet in .375? Likely not. Is it adequate for Africa? Yes. I don't think any PH would complain if you showed up with a 375 Ruger and 300 bonded DGX and Solids, but any PHs active here on the forum can correct me if I'm wrong.

Hornady also offers the 250 CX which is similar to a barnes ttsx of the same weight if that's your cup of tea. Anyways, I still stand by the fact the 375 Ruger is a better choice IF you handload. If you do not handload or want to order custom ammo, the H&H is the way to go for sure.

There are a number of PHs that would be unhappy to see you arrive with DGX when there are better options although most will let you use it still. It’s a relatively thinly jacketed bullet and it’s not partitioned or solid copper base to prevent failure on heavy bone resulting in low weight retention on some shots. The bonding made it a lot better but it still is a major limiter to a 375 Ruger with factory ammo. It would be a mistake to use a 250 gr CX or TTSX on a buffalo and shouldn’t be suggested.

 

[generalzip]

There are a number of PHs that would be unhappy to see you arrive with DGX when there are better options although most will let you use it still. It’s a relatively thinly jacketed bullet and it’s not partitioned or solid copper base to prevent failure on heavy bone resulting in low weight retention on some shots. The bonding made it a lot better but it still is a major limiter to a 375 Ruger with factory ammo. It would be a mistake to use a 250 gr CX or TTSX on a buffalo and shouldn’t be suggested.

I plan to use a Barnes 270 LRX from a 375 Ruger this August. PH said that would be a fantastic bullet choice. So not sure why a 250 would be a "mistake". I certainly don't think it would be the "best" choice on buffalo, but I have no doubt whatsoever it would be lethal with good shot placement. I'm willing to bet people would shoot a 250 much better with the lighter recoil than a 300 grain as well. I've shot both and there's for sure a difference between the two.

Anyways neither caliber or bullet weight matters much if you can't hit where you need to hit.

 

[dhoover]

I've had great luck with the 300 grain TSX from Choice Ammo in my 375 Ruger. The guys at Choice have been very helpful.

 

[DLSJR]

I plan to use a Barnes 270 LRX from a 375 Ruger this August. PH said that would be a fantastic bullet choice. So not sure why a 250 would be a "mistake". I certainly don't think it would be the "best" choice on buffalo, but I have no doubt whatsoever it would be lethal with good shot placement. I'm willing to bet people would shoot a 250 much better with the lighter recoil than a 300 grain as well. I've shot both and there's for sure a difference between the two.

Anyways neither caliber or bullet weight matters much if you can't hit where you need to hit.

With all due respect, anyone having issues with recoil from a 375 in hunting situations and wanting a lighter bullet to lessen recoil should probably not hunt dangerous game to begin with.

Dangerous game hunting, at least for the big stuff with thick skin and heavy bones, calls for large caliber rifles shooting heavy, stoutly constructed bullets. That is not the place for lighter bullets that inherently don’t penetrate as well as heavier bullets. Those guns kick, and they kick a bit more with the heavier bullets that are most appropriate for game such as buffalo, elephant, rhino, hippo. If recoil is an issue, perhaps sticking to plains game makes more sense.

 

[Daisy]

The barrel length on a 375 Ruger African is 23” that is the same length as any 375 H&H. You’ve tried to exaggerate the difference previously in this thread. 375 Ruger barrel lengths come in 20-23” and H&H barrel lengths

If anyone is exaggerating It is you.

375 Ruger was literally made to run in a shorter action and barrel than the h&h. It is its only reason for existing.

Show me the factory h&h with 23” barrel?

Most rugers are run at 20”.

 

[Daisy]

On a bongo hunt at 10 yards or a buffalo hunt at 50 yards I struggle to see the difference, particularly when most 375 Ruger shooters are shooting Hornady factory ammo with DGX bullets that don’t perform well on game with the extra velocity.

Didn’t you post a picture of the thick brush in the suppressor thread talking about how hard it would be to use a supressor in the thick jungle?

 

[375er]

I recently went through this debate. There are pros and cons to both. I ended up with a 375 Ruger for the following reasons:

1. More production rifles at a reasonable price available thanks to Ruger. I bought a Ruger Hawkeye FTW 375 Ruger. Vx3i 3.5-10 scope in Spuhr rings, silencerco muzzle brake and silencerco Hybrid. Toying with the idea of chopping it to 18.5" but want to see how it balances and shoots as is first.
2. Its simply a better case design. I'm not sure how anyone without bias could argue this. Shorter to fit in a shorter lighter action. More case capacity for 100fps more even in shorter barrels than the H&H. Removal of the stupid belt that is obsolete on modern firearms.
3. Same or greater ballistics in a shorter barrel. Shorter barrels are very handy for a brush gun or in places like Africa especially if you want to shoot with a suppressor.
4. Good factory ammo from Hornady and I hear they are doing a run of brass in June you can stockpile up on.
5. The 375 is inherently a more accurate cartridge (This is conjecture from many wiser than I)

The only disadvantages are 1 less round in the magazine. Factory ammo availability, but if you reload it's a moot point really. Those are the only ones I can really think of, so for me the pros for the Ruger outweighed it's cons. Perhaps one could say the H&H may feed more reliably, but I have not read of a single complaint of a 375 Ruger not feeding reliably so I did not consider this in my comparison because from my research they seem equally reliable in quality modern rifles.

Holding on to a caliber because of nostalgia is fine, but don't sit and act like it's a better cartridge by design because it is objectively not all other things equal.

So, do you think that long tapered brass and belt on the H&H were done for no reason at all???

 

[Daisy]

On a bongo hunt at 10 yards or a buffalo hunt at 50 yards I struggle to see the difference, particularly when most 375 Ruger shooters are shooting Hornady factory ammo with DGX bullets that don’t perform well on game with the extra velocity.

Someone that has paid for a dangerous game hunt could easily get custom ammo from choice or superior or buffalo with the projectile of their choice.

 

[375Fox]

If anyone is exaggerating It is you.

375 Ruger was literally made to run in a shorter action and barrel than the h&h. It is its only reason for existing.

Show me the factory h&h with 23” barrel?

Most rugers are run at 20”.

23” is the same barrel length Ruger had on their RSMs in 375 H&H before they started making Hawkeye African 375 Ruger. You can look at factory 375 H&H rifles yourself you’ll see 22-24” is readily available. My Sako has a 21” barrel.