More thoughts on 9.3x64

Discussion in 'Up To .375' started by bruce moulds, Nov 17, 2018.

  1. bruce moulds

    bruce moulds AH Fanatic

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2018
    Messages:
    848
    Likes Received:
    651
    first i should qualify why i have a 9.3x64.
    having owned a 375 h&h with great satisfaction, i just had to see how claims of the x64 stacked up.
    intended targets are donkeys, horses, camels, cattle, and ever hopeful of buffalo, in aust, and even less likely, african game up to and including buffalo.
    here in oz, these targets in the desert can require a point blank range trajectory out to 300 yds, and enough killing power when they get there.
    i will not abide using firearms that scratch things down, considering this a moral issue.
    the 9.3 has proven to be a disappointment gun with nosler partition 286 gn bullets.
    however 300 gn swift aframes turned that on its head dramatically.
    the next test is 286 aframes vs 300, primarily due to the fact that the lighter bullet can run 150 fps faster at the muzzle, and surprisingly has a higher b.c. than the heavier one.
    this will give better velocities at 300 yds for bullet expansion.
    the 286 bullet has the same sectional density as the 300 gn 375 bullet, so in a way it is in that class, and ahead of the 270 gn 375.
    the 300 gn swifts in stock will be kept for buffalo at closer ranges.
    a guy gave me 400 cases necked up to 338 from 8mm rem mag.
    these would compare with the 340 weatherby, and possibly beat it if the brass is tougher than norma made 340 brass.
    probably great for all the species except buff and possibly cattle, compared to 9.3.
    the thinking goes on, but testing has to be done.
    bruce.
     

  2. greyfox

    greyfox AH Fanatic

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2012
    Messages:
    514
    Likes Received:
    317
    I'e always wondered why the 9.3X64 didn't catch outside of Europe, Is it popular Down Under?
    I've seen 9.3 X 62 here in the States, but never a 64? Heard components for reloading are hard to get too?
     

  3. HWL

    HWL AH Fanatic

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2016
    Messages:
    630
    Video/Photo:
    99
    Likes Received:
    752
    Location:
    Germany
    Hunted:
    RSA, Namibia, Germany, Austria, Norway
    9,3x74R in break open guns and 9,3x62 in bolt actions have a long lasting tradition in central europe.

    No 9,3x64 was needed, because more power simply was not necessary to hunt in Europe.

    After the Wehrmacht failed to conquer the world, the Germans tried it with DeutschMark, and it worked.

    Doing so, between 1955 and 1989 the 9,3x64 was extremly popular by Germans, hunting in africa and the rest of the world.

    The 9,3x64 was (and still is!) the "King Tiger Tank" in the hand of a hunter.....

    In 1989, the Germans tried to buy the "DDR",..... and they failed again.

    From this time forward, no providential german has been seen on the surface of this planet....

    ...and the 9,3x64 dissappeared......

    Whenever you find one....hold her tight,.... it is an artefakt from the better days we had.


    :sneaky:

    HWL
     
    Timbo, flatwater bill, ZG47 and 4 others like this.

  4. bruce moulds

    bruce moulds AH Fanatic

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2018
    Messages:
    848
    Likes Received:
    651
    the 9.3x64 is not popular down under, and few people here really know what it is.
    however it does have a minority of users who offer it extreme loyalty.
    the fact that cases are hard to come by is one of its greatest obstacles.
    bullets are readily available, and here also is one of its difficulties.
    all over the world, the popularity of the slower 9.3s has led to bullet evolution for those cases, x62 and x74.
    however there are better bullets commonly available like swift and barnes that allow the x64 to demonstrate its superiority.
    in fact it is fully the equal of the 375h&h.
    my own rifle is a mk10 mauser simply rebarreled and boltface adjusted to rim diameter.
    it is a 30/06 length action, and feeds as slick as you could want with no mods required.
    here in oz it offers definite trajectory advantages in desert country over the x62, and extends killing power to more useable ranges.
    if a rifle company in conjunction with an ammunition company launched products together this round would likely succeed.
    as a balance of useability and poer in a compact package it has a lot to offer a hunter in the know.
    you might liken it to the 404 in that it is very balanced has history, but lacks platforms at the moment.
    bruce.
     
    Timbo, Milan and fsrmg1 like this.

  5. Milan

    Milan AH Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2015
    Messages:
    231
    Video/Photo:
    33
    Likes Received:
    133
    Hunted:
    Alberta, RSA
    How is the recoil of the x64? I love my 9.3x62 and it is both pleasant to shoot and "quiet" even with 20" barrel. But I will agree that the trajectory is rainbow-ish. :D Yet I could maybe get longer barrel and load it hotter (so far only factory ammo went through it, but again nothing wrong with any of it). My problem is I do have a .375 H&H and while I love it I would not mind something more pleasant to shoot (though mine is pleasant enough), yet with similar power. Notice I say similar, as in the end I believe same grain bullet (i.e. 300gr) at same velocity, at same pressure will kick the same...but cases being different, maybe the pressure spike is different, maybe the recoil is...I dunno..just thinning out loud, curious how the x64 compares to x62 in this aspect as well as the noise.

    I'm really looking at .375 replacement. 1) I swore I was done with magnums and was going to do more with less so to speak and 2) I never use any of my .375s for anything. I thought 9.3x62 was that replacement it but it's not really. But with the .375 H&H I use either bigger rifles or smaller ones (maybe drawback of an all-around rifle when owning more specialized rigs is that it gets used less, even though I consider them all all-around rifles). Yet I always own one or two .375 H&H regardless. Just hard cartridge to give up. I should maybe look at getting rid of the others and just keep the .375, but this leads to s completely different discussion. So back to the x64...how is the boom and recoil compared to x62 and .375 H&H.
    Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2018

  6. fsrmg1

    fsrmg1 AH Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2015
    Messages:
    152
    Video/Photo:
    6
    Likes Received:
    112
    Location:
    Perth, Western Australia
    Member of:
    SSAA, NRA, BGRC, MMA
    Hunted:
    AK, US, AU, DE, CZ
    I've owned and used all the big 9.3s (9.3x62, 9.3x64, 9.3x66 & 9.3x74), along with the 375 H&H Mag. To be honest it is hard to notice any difference in the field. The 9.3s tend to be built lighter and more trim, so top loads will kick in any of them.

    When shooting my 9.3x64, it fully felt like I was shooting my 375. Likewise when shooting my trim 9.3x66 Sako with full loads. The advantage to me is having a light and trim stalking rifle that has some real grunt. Plus, you never notice recoil in the field when hunting, so use your 375 where you can and switch to your trim 9.3x62 when you don't need range.

    By the way, you can safely load your 9.3x62 up a notch, as factory loads are very mild, some more than others.
     
    flatwater bill likes this.

  7. Milan

    Milan AH Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2015
    Messages:
    231
    Video/Photo:
    33
    Likes Received:
    133
    Hunted:
    Alberta, RSA
    Thanks for the reply. In the field I would find little difference I'm sure and maybe that's what I should focus on. But I like teh 9.3x62 even for a bit of plinking and am not sure I's do the same amount with the 3.75 or the 9.3x64. I just figured I'd never use the .375 and the 9.3x62 would do everything I need and then some and in a lighter, handier, less kicking and less noisy package... Moose/elk/deer/African game...then I found out it does all that, except the trajectory and not hitting anything live with the 375, I don't know if it kills any less. Though I hear 375 can be really impressive. Then I started hunting the prairies and long shots upward of 300 are not uncommon on elk, and suddenly I was craving a better trajectory than 9.3x62 and got a .300 WM. So wondering if the 9.3x64 is worth it and at what cost to lightness, recoil and noise. I bet the differences between these are probably not enough to worry about, so as mentioned, just kind of mulling over silly details. In the end I think I should take the 375 hunting and figure out if I like carrying it around, and how it shoots in the field. The 9.3x62 is a peach for sure. I suppose I could re-chamber that one but then I'd miss the classic x62 I'm sure.
     

  8. bruce moulds

    bruce moulds AH Fanatic

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2018
    Messages:
    848
    Likes Received:
    651
    milan, with 300 gn bullets in both, they kick the same with full loads.
    with equivalent lighter bullets, the same.
    equivalent killing power on similar sized game is the clue.
    the deliver the same at both ends.
    no free lunches.
    maybe some form of 338 cal might offer you flatter trajectory than the x62 with only a minor reduction in killing effect, then keep the 375 for bigger stuff.
    bruce.
     

  9. Von S.

    Von S. AH Fanatic

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2018
    Messages:
    643
    Likes Received:
    701
    Nice round......wouldn't want to be hit by one.

    Russia makes a sniper rifle in it with the expressed purpose of defeating body armor, and it does.

    There are many rounds world wide that have ballistic twins of sort and many people will purposely get the less known as something special and a hunting lodge conversation piece, especially if it has drop dead wood, some engraving and has writing in fancy script or a language that no one around can understand.

    Or how about a unique action along with a exotic chambering like a -64 in a Blazer? Now there's something not soon forgot.

    Whatever you get and use, just make sure that it's special to you.
     

  10. Milan

    Milan AH Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2015
    Messages:
    231
    Video/Photo:
    33
    Likes Received:
    133
    Hunted:
    Alberta, RSA
    Thanks Bruce,
    Yeah I know all about no free lunches. Still I guess 286 gr bullet at fewer fps seems more pleasant than the 300 gr .375 H&H. The rifles are 9 lbs 6 oz for the 9.3x62 and 10 lbs even for the .375 H&H. Both heavier than they feel but both are scoped too. Yet the 9.3 feels nimbler and much, much more pleasant to shoot. Will have to shoot them again back to back to remind myself how big a difference it is. The 9.3 actually feels eve more pleasant than .30-06 but that could be just perceived recoil due to different stocks. Either way I will maybe test the .375 with .270 gr bullets and make that my "long range" rig. :D Using the 300 gr bullets in the brush. Rainbows are beautiful. :D :D

    Again, I only got in on this thread as I was always interested in the 9.3x64, and because I love the 9.3x62 and also because last time around, with rifle selling and purchasing I swore to myself: "no magnums!" (just because I had them before and wanted to focus on something else, not because I don't like them). Basically felt like sticking with standard length, "nice, cool, old-school classic", non-belted cartridges (not that .375 H&H is all that modern). Yet somehow I have .300 WM rifle and a .338 barrel kicking around that I'm sure will become .338 WM. Not to mention the sweet old H&H. So mulling over what calibers to weed out and get rid of. LOL
     

  11. Milan

    Milan AH Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2015
    Messages:
    231
    Video/Photo:
    33
    Likes Received:
    133
    Hunted:
    Alberta, RSA
    Yeah. I know. Would not mind the Dragunov version in 9.3x64. But other than that I'm strictly a Mauser guy. So no unique actions for me...
     
    MartyJ and Von S. like this.

  12. bruce moulds

    bruce moulds AH Fanatic

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2018
    Messages:
    848
    Likes Received:
    651
    milan, a 286 gn bullet at 2600+ can seem like a 300 gn at 2500 in no uncertain terms.
    the 286 will shoot a little flatter depending on bullet shape.
    incidentally the 286 nosler partition cannot handle that speed.
    it might be a better bullet in the x62.
    bruce.
     

  13. Von S.

    Von S. AH Fanatic

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2018
    Messages:
    643
    Likes Received:
    701
    Milan,

    I think the Mauser is an extremely unique action in that it's design is absolutely beautiful.

    Beautiful lines and mechanics.
     
    Milan likes this.

  14. Milan

    Milan AH Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2015
    Messages:
    231
    Video/Photo:
    33
    Likes Received:
    133
    Hunted:
    Alberta, RSA
    Could not agree more.
     

  15. Shootist43

    Shootist43 AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2015
    Messages:
    4,155
    Video/Photo:
    22
    Likes Received:
    3,197
    Location:
    Grosse Ile, Michigan
    Member of:
    NRA
    Hunted:
    Michigan, Texas, Missouri, Limpopo Province South Africa
    Anyone looking at something less than a 375 H&H should consider a 35 Whelen The ballistics for the 9.3 x 62 and the 35 Whelen are very comparable. Not a magnum but still quite capable.
     
    Rick Cox likes this.

  16. Clodo Ferreira

    Clodo Ferreira AH Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    153
    Video/Photo:
    9
    Likes Received:
    136
    Hi,

    From the ballistic viewpoint, all else being the same (barrel length, pressure, et al) the 9,3x64 is NOT a .375 H&H equal. It falls just in the middle between the 9,3x62 and the .375 H&H. Great!!! I have both, a 9,3x62 and a .375 H&H. If the source for cartridges and cases for the 9,3x64 were more common, or easy to get, I would happily replace the former two by a 9,3x64!

    Good luck!

    CF
     
    Milan likes this.

  17. Clodo Ferreira

    Clodo Ferreira AH Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    153
    Video/Photo:
    9
    Likes Received:
    136
    By the way, to me, a good Mauser or BRNO ZKK 600 in 9,3x64 should weight not more than 4 kg, fully loaded and dressed, around 8,5 lbs.
    The weight of my ZKK 600 9,3x62, ready, is 8 lbs. My .375 H&H ready to go weights 9,5 lbs. I would like a little less weight of this .375, mostly taken off the barrel to improves the balance.
     
    Milan likes this.

  18. Clodo Ferreira

    Clodo Ferreira AH Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    153
    Video/Photo:
    9
    Likes Received:
    136
    The weight "between the hands" is more important, to me, than even a pound more o less....
     
    Milan likes this.

  19. bruce moulds

    bruce moulds AH Fanatic

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2018
    Messages:
    848
    Likes Received:
    651
    clodo,
    while the 375 has to be more powerful than the 9,3x64, the difference is not niticeable on game, or in trajectory.
    both are well ahead of the 9.3x62 on both counts.
    the 9.3x64 can drive a 300 gn swift as fast as 375 factory loads can drive the same wit bullet.
    the 300 gn 9.3 bullet has a little more s.d. than the 375 of the same weight, and will penetrate a little further.
    same nose shape will give the 375 bullet an gaining energy advantage as range increases as well.
    the 286 gn 9,3 bullet has the same s.d. as the 300 gn 375 bullet, and goes 100 fps faster, giving a definite trajectory edge, and also an energy edge.
    in the field, on game, there is no noticeable difference with similar bullets.
    at my age 9.5 lb loaded is a preferred weight for a 9.3x64 loaded to full potential.
     
    Milan likes this.

  20. Clodo Ferreira

    Clodo Ferreira AH Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    153
    Video/Photo:
    9
    Likes Received:
    136
    Hi Bruce,

    Agree! "In the field, on game, there is (should be) no noticeable difference with similar bullets"!!
    It is not to start a big debate about this differences! What I said is because the case capacity of the three, 9,3x62-9,3x64 and .375 H&H are, roughly: 74 grs, 84 grs, and 95 grs in that order.
    So, loaded at the same pressure in barrels of the same length, it impossible to get the same maximum safe velocity of the .375 H&H with the 9,3x64 Brenneke with same bullet weight. Of course it can be approached using 286 vs 300 grs respectively.
    Anyway, I like the 9,3x64 the best of this trio!

    Best Regards

    Clodo
     
    Foxi likes this.

Share This Page

 
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice