Is there any solution?

[Ray B]

Problem: A standard length Mark X was to be opened to allow 300 Wby cartridges to function. The "gunsmith" went overboard with his grinder and took out too much of the metal under the rails. In addition, didn't angle the ramp. It is possible that if the sides of the magazine well could be built back up the cartridges would move a little toward the center so that less metal would need to be removed from the ramp in order for them to feed into the chamber. I'll see if I can get some photos so show the situation. I'm guessing that there isn't any realistic way to add the metal back and the "gunsmith" just turned a brand new Mark X into junk.

 

[Ray B]

Posting this up once again causes anxiety regarding the gunsmiths that I have encountered over the last 40 years. When I find a good one, such as CP Donnelly, Al Biesen, Maurice Ottmar and few others I treasure them and value my time with them and their products. but then they retire or succumb to illnesses and I'm back to trying to find a qualified one. The last few attempts have not turned out well. There was the one that while I was explaining what I wanted done was also talking with another customer. Although I was specific that I wanted the sight mount to be drilled to match the existing hold in the bridge of the Pre-War Model 70 375 H&H, When he got around to doing the work he was confused and decided that I wanted the bridge to be drilled to match the mount. Afterword he even said he thought strange that I would want the bridge of such a collectible gun drilled, but rather than to call and clarify he drilled. At least that problem is covered by the scope mount so I'm not remined of it when I use the rifle, which is very rarely. So it doesn't compare to the ongoing saga of building a 300 Wby.

Years ago I did some swapping round of actions/barrels and ended up with a spare 300 Wby mag barrel made by CP Donnelly. I've been trying to get an action for the barrel for several years. this led to the purchase of a Mauser 98GEW, but the gunsmith, recommended to me as highly qualified turned out to be not so qualified, so the Mauser GEW was barreled with a Shilen 7x57 that required very little modification. Next step, a 300 Wby off Gunbroker on a 98K. The barrel was supposed to be in rough shape. Turns out the rifle was built by Harry McGowen and had seen very little use and was in great shape- too great to dismantle. Third attempt was a Mark X barreled to "some" 375 cartridge- possibly a 375 Weatherby. Again it turned out it was a 3275 Wby and it was too nice to dismantle. Try number 4: obtained a new in box Mark X action and Blackburn bottom metal, from an AH member. I had located a young gunsmith Mitchell Rolens who seemed to be well qualified so I had him set the CP Donnelly barrel to the action. He did a very good job of it, but when I put the stock on it I noted that while the Blackbut bottom metal was for a long magnum cartridge, the action was for a standard magnum. So it needed some metal removed, this was during the COVID nonsense and as a result Mitchell had discontinued his business and moved out of state. i went to Mitchells shop to find him no longer there and a different fellow running it. But the job seemed simple: I had marked the portion of the magazine well that needed to be removed and noted that the well should be tapered so that there was no change in the rails or the metal immediately below the rails. So you see the result in the previous posting. I see no way that the action can be repaired, so it has become junk. I can get the barrel removed and resume the search for another gunsmith that can be trusted to do something right or to turn down a job that is over their head. Thank you for allowing me to vent.

 

[bruce moulds]

sympathies from one who has had similar experiences.
when you get a good smith you learn to appreciate it.
bruce.

 

[USMA84DAB]

Ray -

I can shed some light on why you are undergoing this.

I started a rifle shop a year ago.

1. I have invested $60,000+ in tools and facilities - I just stopped counting - it is never-ending and truly depressing.

2. I have been working in the VA's Vocational Rehab program to get assistance with tooling. I started 07JAN20. I still do not have a lathe or mill. A Taiwan made mill and lathe (not cheap Chinese junk so you can do precision work) are gonna total about $20,000. Another $5,000 in additional tooling, just to get started. Haven't got a metal bandsaw, parts washer, blast cabinet yet. The point is that the entrance hurdle for start-up funds is VERY high for an individual. The Sharp lathe my instructor recommended was going to run about $15,000 by itself. I just could not go out on that limb. If you get a loan, then rent some place, you are slitting your throat with overhead as you have no revenue stream yet - it must be built over years as you learn the trade and build a Client base and reputation.

3. I attempted to complete the NRA Gunsmithing course at Trinidad State (started by Ackley). Since I wouldn't take the CCP Virus test (with wildly high numbers of false positives, which would prohibit me from attending the classes) I had to pay twice as much to stay in an RV park as opposed to the dorms. Instead of the 8 courses needed, I was allowed to take 2 this summer. Fortunately, I was using my 9/11 GI bill to pay the tuition. There are only 5 or 6 schools to learn hands-on gunsmithing in the nation. I am 58, so not going to relocate to try and find an apprentice program.

4. Vendors like Leupold and Blue Force gear will not work with small start-up operations. They demand $5,000 or $10,000 minimum purchases of their products and a brick and mortar shop with $10,000 of signage. My county would not issue me a business permission slip unless I work from home with NO SIGNAGE.

5. Customized rifles are where I must focus - one cannot rebuild a Mauser for a competitive price versus a Ruger American, or a Savage Axis. This starts to narrow down the marketplace pretty fast. Not everyone is like Toby 458. Therefore, I have been building ARs, teaching Basic Rifle Marksmanship, and cleaning/repairing guns this year. The only people buying ARs, for the most part, are newly awakened people buying for the first time. They think a $550 Del-Ton is heinously expensive. They don't know anything about the platform so don't know about NiB, nitriding, anti-walk pins, mid-length gas systems, etc.. Because they are seeking a magic talisman to keep the communists away, they don't want to spend $7-800 to get a good value AR that has been built with quality vs. the entry level rifles.

6. The NRA supports a $1,000/year scholarship at Trinidad State, but doesn't exactly champion the growing/cultivation of replacement riflesmiths for the craftsman you mentioned.

Business is a dog eat dog deal. I get it - not whining - just trying to illustrate for you why there are no riflesmiths.

- It costs too much to get into it
- There is not enough demand for customized and custom rifles
- There are few to none places to learn the trade
- Kids don't have the patience to work with the entire hands vs. just their thumbs on their damned cell phones...

Very frustrating from my side - you are exactly the kind of Client I want to grow my skills to be able to care for. It is an awful rough and steep climb to get to where I can do that though.

Wish I has started building rifles a decade ago.

 

[Hogpatrol]

@Ray B, There are options. Welding with filler metal, then stress relieving, but warping would be a consideration. A piece of metal could be machined to exactly replace the removed material. Attaching it with silver solder or welding, stress relieve, with the warping issue. A skilled person could straighten it if it did warp. All this takes time so it boils down to how much do you want to spend, what do you have when it is repaired, and what is it's value if needed to be sold?

 

[Ray B]

@Ray B, There are options. Welding with filler metal, then stress relieving, but warping would be a consideration. A piece of metal could be machined to exactly replace the removed material. Attaching it with silver solder or welding, stress relieve, with the warping issue. A skilled person could straighten it if it did warp. All this takes time so it boils down to how much do you want to spend, what do you have when it is repaired, and what is it's value if needed to be sold?

That's basically the issue. I suspect the answer is pull the barrel off of the action and resume the search for another action, preferably one that is already machined (correctly) to handle the longer magnum cartridges. The take-off action can sit around and be used as a paperweight until I locate a gunsmith that is actually a gunsmith. The sad part of this is that I knew just what metal needed to be removed and could have used an airdrive handset to grind it away but thought, Mitchell can do it and he could use the business, but then Mitchell was gone and the new guy said he could do it according to my instructions- oh well.

 

[Hogpatrol]

That's basically the issue. I suspect the answer is pull the barrel off of the action and resume the search for another action, preferably one that is already machined (correctly) to handle the longer magnum cartridges. The take-off action can sit around and be used as a paperweight until I locate a gunsmith that is actually a gunsmith. The sad part of this is that I knew just what metal needed to be removed and could have used an airdrive handset to grind it away but thought, Mitchell can do it and he could use the business, but then Mitchell was gone and the new guy said he could do it according to my instructions- oh well.

Did you give him a blueprint or sketch with dimensions? A dummy loaded round? If not, this is usually the root cause of a screwup. The buyer, you, has in their mind one thing, and the machinist interprets it as something else. BTDT.

 

[mark-hunter]

In my humble view, this Marx X rifle should be conpensated in full value by "gunsmith". This should be made as gentlemens agreement, even without saying.
Fixing, welding, reffiling metal, etc if it were mine, I would never trust or enjoy that rifle later, knowing all this.
In case the rifle is not conpensated in full, I wouldnt consider this "gunsmith", as a serious proffesional, or gentleman. Then, the damage will rest on the owner, unfortunately.

 

[bruce moulds]

he knew what it should do, and it is not fit for purpose.
bruce.

 

[Randy F]

I’m very sorry to hear your story. That’s a shame. Understated, I know.

I’m curious...are gunsmith’s not insured for this kind of thing? Is it even available to them? I mean accidents happen but this is just inept IMO. Compensation of some sort seems prudent, wouldn’t you think? As in maybe this person should be the one looking for the part to replace the one he destroyed.

That’s just maddening.

 

[Areaonereal]

Hopefully you did not pay your “gunsmith” for this botched job. He needs to buy this action from you for your cost in it and deal with it as he sees fit....seems to be his problem that became your problem. Good !uck.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Problem: A standard length Mark X was to be opened to allow 300 Wby cartridges to function. The "gunsmith" went overboard with his grinder and took out too much of the metal under the rails. In addition, didn't angle the ramp. It is possible that if the sides of the magazine well could be built back up the cartridges would move a little toward the center so that less metal would need to be removed from the ramp in order for them to feed into the chamber. I'll see if I can get some photos so show the situation. I'm guessing that there isn't any realistic way to add the metal back and the "gunsmith" just turned a brand new Mark X into junk.

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@Ray B
Yes the action rails can be built back up but you need a good gunsmith not bubba the blacksmith you are using. It will be a reasonably costly option but not as dear as a new action.
Personally I would make bubba pay for h is stuff up and buy you a new action.
Bob