IMR3031 load data for 375H&H?

[rookhawk]

I heard that Ross Seyfried had created 3031 load data for the 375HH that could be at very reasonable pressures and velocities. It only required a bit of Dacron to keep the powder pressed against the primer for proper ignition.

Does anyone have his or other loads for 375HH using IMR3031 powder?

 

[Shootist43]

I tried searching for the Ross Seyfried load you mentioned but couldn't find it. I can do a couple of QuickLoad simulations if you'd like me to. What bullet weights, velocities etc. are you looking for?

 

[Longwalker]

From DuPont 1978 Reloaders guide...

 

[Wyatt Smith]

What bullet weight are you planning on using? Personally I would use no powder faster than 4895 behind a 300 grain.

 

[Longwalker]

See table above. One small correction, I should have written the title to that photo "Handloader's" Guide not "Reloaders". It is interesting, and a little odd, that according to DuPont, in the .375 H&H IMR3031 yields more velocity with the same or less pressure than IMR4895, despite their normally accepted relative burning rates. Not what I would have predicted either.
I have developed one load with IMR 3031 and the Hornady 270 gr. bullet, but my goal was moderate velocity with mild recoil and less than maximum speed. It worked well for that application.

 

[rookhawk]

See table above. One small correction, I should have written the title to that photo "Handloader's" Guide not "Reloaders". It is interesting, and a little odd, that according to DuPont, in the .375 H&H IMR3031 yields more velocity with the same or less pressure than IMR4895, despite their normally accepted relative burning rates. Not what I would have predicted either.
I have developed one load with IMR 3031 and the Hornady 270 gr. bullet, but my goal was moderate velocity with mild recoil and less than maximum speed. It worked well for that application.

Thanks for the load data picture, @Longwalker Could you help me understand the data? Is that max loads or starting loads? Does the book say what percent of that data is the starting load point?

 

[rookhawk]

I tried searching for the Ross Seyfried load you mentioned but couldn't find it. I can do a couple of QuickLoad simulations if you'd like me to. What bullet weights, velocities etc. are you looking for?

Reasonable questions you ask, unreasonable replies are what I have to offer. I was just curious for all the loads from 235gr-300gr to be honest. I figured I would find some efficiency sweet-spot where the velocity, powder charge, and bullet weight all come together to create the lowest felt recoil setup.

I do not know which load will be highly effective at the least recoil whether 235gr, 250gr, 270gr, or 300gr. I figured if I stared at them all I'd find a gem in the mix where the lethality seems impressive and the actual felt recoil numbers are super low.

 

[Longwalker]

rookhawk, those are maximum loads with each powder. Refer to the pressure data, last column. The usual suggestion: if you change anything like bullet style or primer, or case, you should start at 10% below max and work up, quitting and backing off a grain or two when pressure indications in your rifle tell you you have reached "Max". Also do not exceed the max. powder charge in grains, indicated in the table. I use a chronograph and quit when the published velocity has been reached ( keeping in mind barrel length) . The theory I go by - when you've reached the max. velocity published with that powder and bullet weight, you have also reached the pressure max.

 

[Longwalker]

I had a similar goal "which load will be highly effective at the least recoil whether 235gr, 250gr, 270gr, or 300gr." Heavier bullets will always recoil more than a light bullet at the same velocity. Light bullets don't kick much, but penetration and ballistic efficiency is poorer than medium or heavy bullets. I soon realized you can't get something for nothing.
So I settled on duplicating the 9.3x62. A 270 grain RN bullet at 2350 fps. Mild and effective. My experiments with heavier and lighter bullets didn't yield the accuracy I was looking for or recoil was more than ideal. 60 grains of IMR3031 and the Hornady 270 RN did the trick, on paper anyway. I have to admit I have not hunted with that combination.
I have used that same 60 gr. / 3031 powder charge with a 300 gr. RN Hornady ( Old style, not DGX) to take one deer, it expanded properly and worked as expected.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

To add to what @Longwalker said, I have loaded 270 Hornandys to 2450 for practice and found them very comfortable. It was a starting load of reloader 15 if I recall.

 

[Shootist43]

Rookhawk even though you didn't ask for it I worked up a QL simulation of the load in the chart / table posted by Longwalker. Since you are such a nice guy, I'll work up others as they are posted. Click on the photo and it will enlarge so you can read id.

 

[Shootist43]

Here is a QL simulation of Longwalker's load using 270 Gr. Hornady Round Nose bullets.

 

[rookhawk]

Guys, thanks for al this awesome info.

I agree with you, that all things equal, heavier bullets go slower. But momentum is important, especially in solids where you want the bullet to continue to drive through.

So my question is, what is better, a 270gr at 2400fps or a 300gr at X fps less when it comes to both penetration and recoil?

I know the old saying 400gr solid at 2150fps muzzle velocity kills everything, but I don’t know how to adapt that to lesser bullets of smaller bore. We can certainly send 270gr at 2400fps, but would it be wiser to send 350gr at 2250fps and would it have less recoil?

Not sure.

 

[Shootist43]

Rookhawk, recoil can be calculated at least approximately. Have you seen the following?

ShootersCalculator.com | Recoil Calculator

An online calculator that calculates the recoil energy, impulse, and velocity of a firearm according to the firearm's weight, powder charge, bullet weight, and bullet muzzle velocity.

shooterscalculator.com

 

[rookhawk]

Rookhawk, recoil can be calculated at least approximately. Have you seen the following?

ShootersCalculator.com | Recoil Calculator

An online calculator that calculates the recoil energy, impulse, and velocity of a firearm according to the firearm's weight, powder charge, bullet weight, and bullet muzzle velocity.

shooterscalculator.com

I play with that link like a priest reading scripture.

 

[rookhawk]

I guess its a bit of a game of "would you rather".

If you're an elephant or other dangerous game animal, would you rather be hit with:

1.) a 260gr bullet at 2400fps (27.67lbs of felt recoil)
2.) a 300gr bullet at 2315fps (31.37lbs of felt recoil)
3.) a 350gr bullet at 2070fps (32.64lbs of felt recoil)
4.) a 350gr bullet at 2205fps (38.15lbs of felt recoil)

Bonus if its true and not a misprint. Above, there is old load data from a book that claims

X.) a 270gr bullet at 2300fps (23.79lbs of felt recoil) ***supposedly 49gr of IMR4198 in a 10lb gun***
Y.) a 300gr bullet at 2440fps (35.1lbs of felt recoil) ***Factory Federal Solid Load with 64gr of Varget)


I have to say, that 270gr at 2300fps seems to be a terrifying load that only puts out 23.79lbs of recoil. If we're talking about dangerous game solids, is that 23.79lb of recoil 270gr load really going to underperform a typical Federal Trophy Bonded Sledgehammer at 300gr and 2440fps that puts out 35lbs of recoil by *THAT* much?

 

[Longwalker]

I think you're at the stage of research where you put the tables and theories aside - just load some test cartridges and try them out. Good Luck!

 

[rookhawk]

I think you're at the stage of research where you put the tables and theories aside - just load some test cartridges and try them out. Good Luck!

Probably.

We just got a box of custom loads in softs and solids to try from Lance Hendershot. We wanted a factory loaded cartridge as a baseline to either copy or report its less than optimal.

These loads used IMR4895 with a 260gr solid and a 260gr accubond, both regulated at 2400FPS.

(not sure of the powder weight, but should be a fairly light load)

Kid will give it a go this week and then we'll adjust or copy from there.

 

[Shootist43]

Rookhawk, your 270 Gr. bullet traveling at 2300 FPS generates less Ft. Lbs. of energy than a 30-06 with a 180 Gr. Hornady Round Nose. I don't think anyone would honestly recommend the 30-06 as a DG caliber.

 

[rookhawk]

Rookhawk, your 270 Gr. bullet traveling at 2300 FPS generates less Ft. Lbs. of energy than a 30-06 with a 180 Gr. Hornady Round Nose. I don't think anyone would honestly recommend the 30-06 as a DG caliber.

That's a very good point, @Shootist43.

Ft. Lbs of energy is an important consideration, always. Also, momentum, sectional density, BC, etc.

On large, dangerous game, using solids, what is the key cause of death using a 375HH? (Too slow to be hydrostatic shock in all cases, right?) Making a hole and causing blood loss I gather?

So the question is, what's the better killer, 260gr excellent solid at higher speed, or 300gr or 350gr solid at lower speed? The frontal area of all would still be .375" bullets with flat fronts, so I'm not sure which is better?