How dangerous are the ‘Big Five’?

[fourfive8]

Any water with big crocs. Most commonly though… anywhere with tuskless cow elephants or cows who even think they are tuskless or tusk challenged.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

The “go in any direction long enough and you will hit a natural or man made boundary” pro-high fence argument is akin to a drinker using the “it’s five o’clock somewhere” argument (you can do it but should it be done or to what degree should it be done). I should know, I used to use the latter argument A LOT. Don’t get me wrong, MANY African high fence (and low fence) operations do it the right way and the situation is different there than it is here but to act like there’s no difference between a fenced and un-fenced area is ludicrous.

People so often say it “felt wild” or “the fence never played a factor” or “the animals acted more wild than animals I’ve seen in Uganda (or wherever)” but that doesn’t change the reality of the situation. It sounds like the millennial feelings based arguments for literally everything.

What conservation value do the vast majority of North American high fences hold? I mean besides the ones that have played a direct role in rescuing SOME species from extinction. Absolutely zero IMO

 

[Rubi_300]

Much of the African game can not jump a cattle fence. Be cautious on open range claims.

Do you have any recommendations on SA outfitters that are truly open range? Or is that even a thing in SA?

 

[Rubi_300]

If I get charged or am in a random dangerous situation, I've either 'done it wrong' or was in the wrong place at the wrong time. One I have a lot of control over, the other is just dumb luck. As a close friend of mine says, "if at the end of a hunt, it seems very uneventful, then you've done your job correctly"

If I can make one suggestion to you. Don't get paralysis through analysis and set expectations on your hunt that could never be achieved without perfection. Nothing on an international hunting or fishing trip ever goes perfect. There are too many variables that are out of my control. Also, more is less when it comes to gear. I can't stress this enough.

Hunting and fishing are experiences, that are more than the actual game I shoot and fish I catch. It's the people, places and things I see and experience. I keep an open mind to the game I'll shoot and am more interested in taking a quality trophy than I am a specific trophy. There will always be another chance. The day that there isn't, I'll be dead and won't know what I've missed. My best hunts have been for opportunities that presented themselves rather than what I was looking for.

If you want to shoot a buffalo on your first trip, do it. The buffalo won't know it's your first trip, the PH will factor your skill level in and put you in a safe position do your part. Doing your part is all on you.

As far as fences, go in any direction long enough and you will hit a natural or man made boundary. There are plenty of fenced places, that you can hunt on, that you and the animal you're hunting will never know there is a fence. I personally don't like hunting on small fenced in ranches or concessions, but I've hunted on large ones that I could not tell there was a fence. In the states, high fenced ranches have an advantage that they have controlled genetics and better trophy opportunities. I've never hunted on a ranch where I've hand fed and petted my trophy before I shot it. Contrary to some public land state hunter's opinions, high fenced hunting is not a petting zoo. Since both options are available, you're not limited to anything but your expectations.

Get your ticket, take a rifle, bow or a sharp pointed object, and go to somewhere in Africa and hunt. Enjoy yourself and do it again if you liked it.

I think you hit the nail on the head. I don’t want to set expectations and it’s hard not to..especially when you want a trip to go perfect. The whole high fence thing I can agree with. When hunting on a couple hundred thousand acres no human or animal is going to realize if there is fence there or not.

 

[Rubi_300]

I agree completely.

The “go in any direction long enough and you will hit a natural or man made boundary” pro-high fence argument is akin to a drinker using the “it’s five o’clock somewhere” argument (you can do it but should it be done or to what degree should it be done). I should know, I used to use the latter argument A LOT. Don’t get me wrong, MANY African high fence (and low fence) operations do it the right way and the situation is different there than it is here but to act like there’s no difference between a fenced and un-fenced area is ludicrous.

People so often say it “felt wild” or “the fence never played a factor” or “the animals acted more wild than animals I’ve seen in Uganda (or wherever)” but that doesn’t change the reality of the situation. It sounds like the millennial feelings based arguments for literally everything.

What conservation value do the vast majority of North American high fences hold? I mean besides the ones that have played a direct role in rescuing SOME species from extinction. Absolutely zero IMO

I agree completely. Regardless of how big the fenced in area is there is always still that thought of how wild are these animals really. For some that’s all that’s needed to shy away from it. Obviously SA if mainly high fenced and it makes a good starting point. The end goal would be to hunt in some truly wild land far far away from any civilization before that’s gone completely but I like the idea of starting in SA to get an idea of it all first.

 

[375Fox]

Do you have any recommendations on SA outfitters that are truly open range? Or is that even a thing in SA?

For buffalo in South Africa, the only free range bulls border Kruger. All others are behind a high fence. Some on bigger properties than others. Every property will be managed differently some will be truly self sustaining, some have trophy bulls introduced every year to supplement hunting quota, some are only bulls know what you’re getting into. There are a lot of outfitters in South Africa and it’s very competitive for clients. I think many are careless with the truth and many clients want to believe what they see. For plains game, I’d look more at the species. Low fence holds in blesbok, wildebeest, zebra and a lot of others but doesn’t hold in kudu, eland, warthog, bushbuck in any way.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

I agree completely.

I agree completely. Regardless of how big the fenced in area is there is always still that thought of how wild are these animals really. For some that’s all that’s needed to shy away from it. Obviously SA if mainly high fenced and it makes a good starting point. The end goal would be to hunt in some truly wild land far far away from any civilization before that’s gone completely but I like the idea of starting in SA to get an idea of it all first.

I understand that viewpoint. There are many operators in RSA that do things the right way and many are AH sponsors

 

[375Fox]

When hunting on a couple hundred thousand acres no human or animal is going to realize if there is fence there or not.

The largest property in South Africa is 212,000 acres I believe. Outfitters advertise hundreds of thousands of acres but it’s not continuous and a lot of that is hunted by other outfitters as well. Most hunting properties in South Africa are going to fall between 5000 and 15,000 acres.

 

[Rubi_300]

The largest property in South Africa is 212,000 acres I believe. Outfitters advertise hundreds of thousands of acres but it’s not continuous and a lot of that is hunted by other outfitters as well. Most hunting properties in South Africa are going to fall between 5000 and 15,000 acres.

That is good to know, thank you! I like the idea of crusader safaris hunting on private land and public land tracts. Obviously there are fences for cattle and such but there isn’t a 15’ tall fence all around the perimeter.

any input on crusader safaris and their claim of free range?

 

[375Fox]

That is good to know, thank you! I like the idea of crusader safaris hunting on private land and public land tracts. Obviously there are fences for cattle and such but there isn’t a 15’ tall fence all around the perimeter.

any input on crusader safaris and their claim of free range?

They have a very good reputation. However, like I said in other post, a blue wildebeest behind a cattle fence isn’t free range. A kudu is. For South Africa, I wouldn’t look so much at high fence or low fence, I’d look for outfitters that hunt on a quota system. I’ll send you a PM.

 

[TERMINATOR]

That is good to know, thank you! I like the idea of crusader safaris hunting on private land and public land tracts. Obviously there are fences for cattle and such but there isn’t a 15’ tall fence all around the perimeter.

any input on crusader safaris and their claim of free range?

Just book with Marius if @KMG Hunting Safaris
Most of his RSA Plains Game hunting for the common plains game is free range. Some things can only be had behind fences in RSA but most of his plains game hunting is on free range private property

And even inside a fence you will find out how wild the animals are the first time you let them see, hear or especially smell you on a stalk. It aint like animals on fenced properties are fed from spin corn feeders like in Texas. They are left to fend for themselves, feed themselves and avoid predators both human and animal on their own. If you’re on a fenced property of 20,000 acres the animals are no less wild. The fences are mainly there to keep poachers out

Reputable operators like @KMG Hunting Safaris are going to show you a hunt of a lifetime in SA

Great way to start. Then eventually expand your experience to other places

 

[Philip Glass]

Do you have any recommendations on SA outfitters that are truly open range? Or is that even a thing in SA?

In order to manage the wildlife and not have to deal with the government and their regs you pretty much have to have a game fence in RSA. As I said the free range term is very misleading. You have the spiral horns, impala, and then the small critters who won't be contained by a cattle fence but most of the others are easily contained. My advice is to look at total acreage for your next hunt. It does make a difference.
I am hunting with Frontier Safaris these days and they have 75,000 contiguous acres in the EC and 120,000 contiguous acres in Southern Namibia. You won't know there is a fence on these properties except when you enter!

Philip

 

[Flewis]

If I read the OP correctly, you have decided it is a matter of when, not if you endeavor to get your Big 5. I've had my Big 5 since my leopard hunt in 2016. And have taken 3 buffalo and a second lion so far. I have also been in close to many buffalo which never gave me any anxiety.

Elephant;
Elephant had me concerned a couple times. We stalked in close several times on elephant before finding the right bull to take. I know there are some real adrenaline junkies who specifically hunt tuskless cows for the danger level. And the elephants that raised the hair on the back of my neck were cows and young bulls. During the hunt I can say I was at a higher state of awareness several times. But never afraid. After getting home from my elephant hunt, at first I just wanted to get back and do it again! Then after a year or two, and a PH friend getting killed as well as some others who people i know, knew first hand. I was contemplating elephant hunting and came to the conclusion they were indeed very scary and right up at the top for me. I realized I had been in a couple tight spots that we came out of just fine because everyone (well except one tracker) remained calm and followed the PH'S instructions to remain still at times and move quickly at others. They really do know what they are doing In 2021 while tracking buffalo through some really thick bush along elephant trails high up in Tanzania, we heard elephant breaking branches and i was ready to go after them and have a look! It would have been Legal to take one but unlikely to find a good one. And we were hot on the Buffalo. In any case, I was ready to go after elephant again

I don't know what level you are at financially, but right now is a great time to hunt elephant! My opinion is that the safest elephant hunt is going after lone or small groups of old bulls. And if you do a little homework, you should be able to get your trophies into the US. However you can have the same experience hunting non trophy, non exportable (different than non importable) for about half the money. And of course hunting a tuskless cow is also low cost but likely the most dangerous. I would put hunting bulls in a herd, especially a mixed herd as second most dangerous.

Leopard;
I always joked I was going to wait until I was in my 70's to hunt leopard. 1. Because sitting in a blind is easy. 2. Because if I get scratched I won't have as long to live with the scars Well I've been in on two leopard hunts and neither was boring. Both required physical exertion, although the dog hunt much more. And neither seemed all that scary. Both were very exciting and I can't wait to repeat!

Hippo;
Lion is probably second on my list of scary dangerous game. Well, third behind hippo on land I only hunted Hippo briefly when we found good sign in Tanzania. It was in tangled brush with hippo tunnels through it. You would pear around each corner not sure what might be there... That was intense as the spor was very fresh and wet yet.

Lion;
A lion will kill you. But the situations I was in hunting them didn't seem all that dangerous at the time. When you see one peering out of the bush at you, it will make your hair stand up! My first was baited and although the old Africaaner PH was trying to get me nervous and excited, it was from a safe distance and the lion seemed unaware or didn't care we were there. It was a whole big piece of South Africa BS supposed to be "wild lion hunt". After it was over it became abundantly clear I'd been had by professionals.

If you do a lion in South Africa, do it with someone who tells it like it is and enjoy it for what it is. If it sounds to good to be true. It's not true. I learned the hard way. However I had the good fortune of hunting a real wild lion in Tanzania. We actually called it in, roaring like a competitor make. He came in like he owned the place, well because he did i suppose! I will never forget the sight of him stepping out ofvthecbush in all his glory looking as big as one of my Holstein cows, but with teeth and claws. I'll relive that forever in my mind. And I'll do it again if I get the opportunity. Or better still, be there with my wife as she does it!

Croc;
I've seen Crocodile in the wild and spent a few hours hunting one in Mozambique but just as he was swimming around thinking about coming onto the beach, it started raining hard. The PH called it off because of where we were we had crossed a large dry creek and if it filled with water, we would not get the truck back to camp! I really don't think a croc hunt is dangerous for the hunter. Just requires very accurate shooting.

Rhino;
Considering what the situation is, I had a really fantastic white rhino hunt. I had to crawl a good ways through short grass and hiding behind small termite mounds to get close to shoot. Then shot it from a sitting position with my Ruger RSM in 505 Gibbs. The most dangerous part was walking to find him, day 3 or 4, a buffalo bull ran out of the brush up ahead and headed down the trail towards us but veered off before getting dangerously close. Unless you hunt a black rhino, and I believe you can now dart one in SA, I don't think this is a real dangerous hunt. But done right it can be a great experience.

Buffalo!
I think most agree this should be your first DG animal to hunt. You may enjoy it so much you never want to hunt anything else! I could make a case for Leopard being first if you want to also shoot a lot of PG simply because you need bait! The danger level with buffalo has been discussed at length. To me they are the Devil's Red Eyed Cattle. But they are cattle and in general behavior is similar to the cattle I've been around my whole life. I can't even smell them until right on a heavy amount of fresh manure because I'm so adjusted to that odor. However buffalo, cape buffalo, have an attitude like no other cattle. And a tenacity to keep living. And they can be vengeful. But shoot them properly and keep shooting them until you are positive they are dead! No stopping for high fives until the tracker or PH has touched the eye with the sticks

Damn Bob that was very well done, it’s good to hear from hunters like you who have done it and not someone who just post a page out of some book just to be heard. Thanks

 

[Switup]

i have never hunted any of the big 5, for one simple reason; its terrifying.
a good few years ago, i was vacationing at a game farm.
we had gone out on a game drive and decided to take a walk out into the bush as a large group. not 2 minutes alter we saw a herd of buffalo, i kid you not, there were atleast 500 of them. these animals are exceptionally intelligent, once they had picked up on our scent we had 1000 eyeballs staring back at us. luckily they had decided to leave the area.

with no incident, we quickly made our way back to the vehicle.

when hunting such game, be wary, after a shot that may have hit, the rest of the herd are likely to stampede off, the direction they take cannot be determined. granted, it will most likely be away from the noise, but you can never rely on this.

i'd consider the .375 to be o.k for the purpose, but if i ever had to go big game hunting, id have a .470 double.

just warn your friend to be careful if he ever goes hunting the big 5, after all in africa, anything can kill you.

and watch out for the giraffe's they hunt in packs!

 

[channelkat]

"right now is a great time to hunt elephant! My opinion is that the safest elephant hunt is going after lone or small groups of old bulls. And if you do a little homework, you should be able to get your trophies into the US. However you can have the same experience hunting non trophy, non exportable (different than non importable) for about half the money."

What is the difference between non exportable and non importable?

 

[375Fox]

What is the difference between non exportable and non importable?

Non-exportable means no export permits will be issued by country you hunted it in
Non-importable means the country you hunted it will issue the export permits but the chance of being approved to bring to USA on case by case basis is zero

 

[channelkat]

Much appreciated! I just assumed they were one in the same...That adds a new wrinkle..

 

[rookhawk]

I do not believe there is a price between exportable and non-exportable and non-importable. The only difference is the yarns of the various operators.

$11,000-$13,000 trophy fee, plus daily rates, gets you into trophy quality elephant. The conservation studies, years of financial papers showing local support, the anti-poaching funding, the wildlife surveys for years in arrears, and all the other elements that prove the taking of a single elephant enhanced the survival of the whole species...that's the rare thing to find. (and what makes it US importable)

 

[375Fox]

I do not believe there is a price between exportable and non-exportable and non-importable. The only difference is the yarns of the various operators.

$11,000-$13,000 trophy fee, plus daily rates, gets you into trophy quality elephant. The conservation studies, years of financial papers showing local support, the anti-poaching funding, the wildlife surveys for years in arrears, and all the other elements that prove the taking of a single elephant enhanced the survival of the whole species...that's the rare thing to find. (and what makes it US importable)

I don’t know if you are right or wrong on that with Zimbabwe, but there is a difference in Namibia with a defined trophy quota and a defined non-export “own use” quota. They are both taken on different license as well.

 

[rookhawk]

I don’t know if you are right or wrong on that with Zimbabwe, but there is a difference in Namibia with a defined trophy quota and a defined non-export “own use” quota.

Rounding errors. Excluding shady PAC hunts that aren't legal for clients to hunt, if its a non-exportable, an exportable, a tuskless, or an exportable with the data required to US import, the price isn't that different.

Exportable/Importable hunts have been offered on this forum from $15,000-$25,000 ALL-IN and I've seen non-exportables offered for the same prices.