Hierarchy Of Double Rifles - Where does the Verney-Carron Fit In?

[ingwe500nitroexpress]

That’s not true lol. VCs are nice rifles. They are not on par with a Heym 89b. And they are not on par with any of the English firms. They just went out of business lol. Are they nicer than a Sabatti or Merkel or chapuis? Yes. Heym or the English makers? Absolutely not. Which is why they’re half the price.

Hope he posts a pic of how that 2600fps load regulates!

Sorry 2650 FPS HAHAHAHAHAHA this just gets better and better. “IT HAS THREE LUGS” That’s like saying your dog is better because it has 3 testicles hahaha. Wow.

 

[ingwe500nitroexpress]

Hi there,
The Verney-Carron is by far a much better built custom double. they have triple under lugs with 2 locking point on each vs only 2 on the other guns. Thus the VC is many many times stronger action, regulation is much better too. You can shoot the VC for a lifetime and never hurt it. I have a custom VC in 450 No.2 and is about the most powerful double round available. Case size is larger than a 460 Weatherby, so operates at lower pressure. Can load 500gr Barnes TSX from 2150 to 2650fps with no signs of pressure. Recoil at the 2650fps is very harsh in my 12.5lb gun. At 2250 fps it is smooth as glass and groups perfect at 3/4" inch apart at 100yds.
Also have a VC in 375 RVC. This case is larger than the 378 Weatherby. So same deal... low pressure and amazing performance. Shoots end to end thru dangerous game.

So that .450 no.2 is more powerful than a .470, .500, .577, .600, .700? Got it. Hey what’s your instagram name? It isn’t Frenchie by chance is it?

 

[Tradmark]

I would rate my vc right with my friends heym. It has taken a beating quiet well, accurate and they are plenty strong. My double’s gun smith has his reasons why they are strong as they are. I love heyms as well.

 

[ingwe500nitroexpress]

Oh the VC are great I am taking nothing from them whatsoever. In fact, I’m hoping a member of this forum will sell me his .577 hahahaha.

 

[50Gunner]

LOL, I took my V/C 26" barreled 577 Nitro to JJ for a checkup before a Tanzanian Safari, I asked about it's durability for the long haul, he said it'd kick us both into our caskets long before we shot it off face, plenty good enough for me, my rifle regulates beautifully accurate with H-4350 under both 750gr TSX and banded flat nosed solids at 2076 fps.
It has simply crushed Hippo and Buffalo with first shot 750gr TSX, I moved into position and paid the insurance with the solid a PH's urgings, they were not needed.

 

[juan pablo pozzi]

Hello to all the learned and experienced. I pose a question to you, hoping to gain some insight into where a Verney-Carron Azur double rifle would fit into place on a list of desirable doubles.
I think I would like to leave out any reference to any type of vintage, bespoke, English or Continental rifle, as I am more focused on what is being produced today, or at least in the last 25 years or so.
Let's assume the calibre is the same for all (.450/.400 NE) and condition of each rifle is comparable - nearly new, to used, but well taken care of. I'm thinking about quality, fit and finish, balance, recoil mitigation, resale value, etc. How does the V.C. Azur compare to the:

Merkel 140
Kreighoff Classic Big Five
Sabatti Classic Double
Heym 88B or 89B
Chapuis X4 or Iphisi

I suppose the question boils down to whether or not a blue collar guy on a budget should even be looking at this double rifle, or should he be satisfied with his bolt gun? I don't believe in buying an inferior product, just because the price is good, I'd rather save longer and be happy.

 

[juan pablo pozzi]

I consider the Chapuis artisan one of the best i have a Chapuis progress that fired near 1000 shells and its new .Saying this i love my Merkel 160AE 470NE and i consider Heym VC and Krieghoff great guns too.

 

[JPmbogo]

LOL, I took my V/C 26" barreled 577 Nitro to JJ for a checkup before a Tanzanian Safari, I asked about it's durability for the long haul, he said it'd kick us both into our caskets long before we shot it off face, plenty good enough for me, my rifle regulates beautifully accurate with H-4350 under both 750gr TSX and banded flat nosed solids at 2076 fps.
It has simply crushed Hippo and Buffalo with first shot 750gr TSX, I moved into position and paid the insurance with the solid a PH's urgings, they were not needed.

I have owned and shot many double rifles over the years, both British and Continental. I strongly concur on the V/C - I have a VC Azur double in 600 NE that I purchased new (show sample) a couple of years ago. Extremely well built and very accurate regardless of what loads I stuff in it (I shoot mainly reduced loads using Accurate 5744). I also currently have a vintage Westley Richards 470 boxlock that is likewise very accurate (2" groups). On a negative note, my first was a Krieghoff Big Five in 470 that I purchased new off the shelf so to speak. Of course, very well made with some controversy over the safety/decocking mechanism. I found some issues with the stock design making recoil a problem (as did others). I understand that problem has been addressed. I also owned a nearly new Merkel in 450/400. Nice gun for the money, but could not get it to shoot with any accuracy.

 

[JPmbogo]

Hello to all the learned and experienced. I pose a question to you, hoping to gain some insight into where a Verney-Carron Azur double rifle would fit into place on a list of desirable doubles.
I think I would like to leave out any reference to any type of vintage, bespoke, English or Continental rifle, as I am more focused on what is being produced today, or at least in the last 25 years or so.
Let's assume the calibre is the same for all (.450/.400 NE) and condition of each rifle is comparable - nearly new, to used, but well taken care of. I'm thinking about quality, fit and finish, balance, recoil mitigation, resale value, etc. How does the V.C. Azur compare to the:

Merkel 140
Kreighoff Classic Big Five
Sabatti Classic Double
Heym 88B or 89B
Chapuis X4 or Iphisi

I suppose the question boils down to whether or not a blue collar guy on a budget should even be looking at this double rifle, or should he be satisfied with his bolt gun? I don't believe in buying an inferior product, just because the price is good, I'd rather save longer and be happy.

However, many "blue collar guys on a budget" would not hesitate to spend 25K+ on a Harley or similar "toy." Go figure?

 

[juan pablo pozzi]

I shoot doubles and shotguns daily .I dindnt notice great diferences performing in the field between VC Heym Merkel or Chapuis. I have several old English guns but you must take care of them .I forgot Krieghoff very good and strong guns too.

 

[ChooChoo404]

“Issues” with Krieghoff? Just did a quick scrub and found little.

Please expand.

 

[SStomcat]

On a negative note, my first was a Krieghoff Big Five in 470 that I purchased new off the shelf so to speak. Of course, very well made with some controversy over the safety/decocking mechanism. I found some issues with the stock design making recoil a problem (as did others). I understand that problem has been addressed.

I'd be interested to know the issues you found with the stock design for the Krieghoff. I'd say the cocking and decocking mechanism is more of a personal preference, some love it, including many Ph's and some don't...

 

[juan pablo pozzi]

Hellow gentlemen i use doubles for water buffalo guiding and culling mostly but we cull hogs too .Merkel has the 160AE that is a luxury model ,Chapuis has the eland artisan and Krieghoff and Heym has handmade finish rifles.If you compare the basis doubles I would choose Chapuis Merkel Heym or Krieghoff or Verney Carron anytime. I dont have experience with the moderns Sabattis .One of my Chapuis has over 1000 shells fired without issues.

 

[juan pablo pozzi]

VC makes a good gun specially their Azure line. When I was in the market for a double 2-3 years back I looked closely at one that was being sold at 15K or so for a new 470 ne. I also considered Heym 89B price around 25 K with some bells and whistles with a almost 8-9 months wait but decided to go with a Krieghoff Classic Big 5, mainly because I could physically see the gun, ensure it is the right fit(V imp.) and available locally (any warranty issues etc, could be handled by them) I find the K gun to be extremely strong, rugged, accurate and forgiving. At he shop Gordys and Son there was a used Heym in 500ne tha I also looked at closely. Just could not justify the price difference and found the fit and finsh lot superior to the Krieghoff. This is my view point others may differ. At the end it comes down to personal choice, all the guns mentioned are good guns. I have no idea of Sabattis.

We shoot doubles almost every week end in my farm in Argentina. The double rifle instructors are dr Juan Pablo Pozzi IPHA international professional hunters Asociation full professional member, Jorge Ortiz owner of over 59 doubles and reloader and PH infantry officer and ipsc shooter Juan Francisco Pozzi aka Iky .I dont notice diferences between Chapuis VC Heym or Merkel krieghoff regarding confiability durability and accuracy. We use english and german barellas and austrian and swiss doubles too but we take care of them because they are old athletes.Another brands have some issues.We did many water buffalos and boars culls too.
Please ask anything you want.

 

[Altitude sickness]

From the book “Rigby Resurrection”

The Shikari was devised to make an affordable RIgby box lock for people that could not justify the Rising Bite DR cost. So they hired Jerome from Verney- Carron to build Rigby a box lock.

So that tells me Rigby has a lot of confidence in the quality of a VC double