Heym For Sale On GunBroker

Perhaps you’d feel more comfortable with the gun if I tell you about the background. This isn’t some single rifle (pun there) that someone decided to unload because it wasn’t right. It is part of a very extensive collection of big and very big/dangerous game hunting guns and ammo from the estate of an older man who used to take all this stuff on safaris. From the clues I’ve seen in dealing with all this, I’d say most of it has not been used much, if at all, since about the late 1980s. This rifle is just one of some 60 or so big game hunting rifles and shotguns, as well as about 50 handguns, that I acquired from this estate. It isn’t one gun that’s being dumped due to a problem. These guns all came with over a dozen 1.5 cu ft U-Haul boxes packed full of boxes of ammo. I had hundreds of boxes of all this ammo. Most of it has all sold by now. I’m down to just a few boxes of the “small” stuff – 375 H&H Magnum and .30-06, and that’ll all be gone by next week.

I’d actually planned to try shooting this rifle myself before I sold it (I wanted to shoot at one of our pesky squirrels with it), but then the ammo all flew out the door in a huge flurry, along with other calibers at the same time. I’m not used to such high volume sales, and it was a struggle just to keep up with it and not make any mistakes. Then, the next thing I knew, the ammo was all gone. So I guess I won’t get to shoot it. Unless I contact one of my buyers and beg them to sell me back a couple rounds. ;-)

Anyway, I’ve been so busy with selling the handguns and ammo that I haven’t even looked at selling the long guns that came with it. I’ll probably be trickling them out for the rest of the year. The only reason this Heym (the star of the collection), is up for sale now is because one of my buyers of 458 Win Mag and 416 Rigby ammo was in a conversation with me and it came out that I had this Heym and a couple Dumoulin safari rifles. I sent him some pics and he made an offer on all 3. I thought the offer was OK on the Dumoulins, but I just wasn’t sure on the Heym. They seem to be worth between $5K and $15K, but that’s an awful big range. So I told him I’d put it up on GB and if no one topped his offer in one 2-week run, he could have it (note the reference to that in the item description). The Dumoulins are still pending. So that’s how the Heym kind of jumped to the head of the line in selling the long guns.

I’m confident that this rifle was part of a large collection of working guns that were used on multiple safaris and that were in use up until the man apparently stopped going on safari. It definitely is not a one-off that someone is trying to unload because there’s a problem with it. As far as ammo, I can tell you that all of the 458 Win Mag ammo was of these types:
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/891641621
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/892945461
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/891642036

The owner had many, many boxes of these 3 types of ammo, so I assume that the gun worked well with them. The collection also includes a Rem 700 in 458 Win Mag, so presumably some of that ammo would have been used in the Remington. So I don’t know which ammo was used with the Heym, but it would have been one of those 3 types.
brianNH,
I noticed on GB you have a number of large bore and exotic calibered reloading dies for sale probably from the same collection this rifle came from. I saw this Heym when looking at your dies for sale. If you have no success selling them on GB, you may want to let the members here know what you have available, because a lot of them have large bore double rifles. And welcome to AH!
CEH
 
The gun has a feature, about a $2000-$3000 upgrade you can see plainly on the forend. It is an extractor-ejector disconnect switch. This switch disables ejectors for situations where you do not want the noise of ejecting shells to give up your location, or at the range where you‘d prefer your spent brass not hit the concrete.
Thanks for the info. I thought that switch had something to do with unlocking the forend. I'm learning a lot about this very unusual (for me) rifle. I'm glad it was in the ejector position when I tested it, or I would have continued thinking it was extractor only when someone asked me which it was. As for the theories regarding this switch with this caliber, I'm pretty sure the gun is 458 Win Mag. Although I didn't fire it, I did test fit a 458 cartridge in the chamber (seemed to fit just right) and a bullet in the bore (seemed like the appropriate interference fit). I also believe this gun was made for the person I got it from, and there are no other barrels with it.
 
Thanks for the info. I thought that switch had something to do with unlocking the forend. I'm learning a lot about this very unusual (for me) rifle. I'm glad it was in the ejector position when I tested it, or I would have continued thinking it was extractor only when someone asked me which it was. As for the theories regarding this switch with this caliber, I'm pretty sure the gun is 458 Win Mag. Although I didn't fire it, I did test fit a 458 cartridge in the chamber (seemed to fit just right) and a bullet in the bore (seemed like the appropriate interference fit). I also believe this gun was made for the person I got it from, and there are no other barrels with it.
See my reply to Rook. I am fairly confident that this is an original .458 fro Heym.
 
From my experience rimless and belted cases can be an issue in DGs. They must use spring loaded "pins" that snap over the rim and the pins are not as positive as a solid extractor under a rimmed case head. I had a Chapuis 30-06 that would not extract the right barrel. JJ cleared the problem up in a few minutes but I would hate to discover that problem in an interesting situation with dangerous game. That being said, it is simple conversion to ream out the chambers on a 458win to 450NE. However, the conversion would probably also entail re-regulating the barrels.

As a side note, all the 88Bs I have owned/handled had the selector for extractor/ejector. My 89B does not have that feature.
 
brianNH,
I noticed on GB you have a number of large bore and exotic calibered reloading dies for sale probably from the same collection this rifle came from. I saw this Heym when looking at your dies for sale. If you have no success selling them on GB, you may want to let the members here know what you have available, because a lot of them have large bore double rifles. And welcome to AH!
CEH
That's most odd, as I did get several die sets with all these guns & ammo, but I haven't put any of them up on GB yet. Perhaps you're thinking of all the large exotic ammo I've been selling. I just went and looked at the pile of boxes of dies. I have (all RCBS) die sets for 375 H&H Magnum, 458 Win Mag, and 300 Wby Mag (the ones pertinent to this audience). I also have 30-06, 38/357, and 45 Colt.

I just looked them up on Midway. Oddly, the 458 Win Mag, which I figured might be expensive, is only $56 and they're in stock. OTOH, I recently decided to try getting into 6.5-300 Wby Mag to complement my 6.5-06 and 7mm-300 Win Mag rifles, and I had to wait weeks and pay $200 for that die set! The 300 Wby and 375 H&H are only $40 (not in stock). How come when I'm selling, things are cheap, and when I'm buying, things are expensive? ;-)

I'd sell them to you guys for 80% of Midway prices. You can check my GB feedback to see how reputable I am. https://www.gunbroker.com/a/feedback/profile/1185
$10 shipping one, $15 for several
 

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How come when I'm selling, things are cheap, and when I'm buying, things are expensive? ;-)

Just as The sun comes up in the East; Rain is wet' and water runs downhill, when you want something it is expensive and when you have it, it is cheap, it stands with the rules of the universe.
 
Yep, I guess it was just the length. Anyway, I hope that clears up any questions you may have about this rifle and the auction.
Best Regards,
Brian

@brianNH welcome to the forum. Nice of you to drop in and provide more details as it is likely your bidders are coming from members of this group.

I know you’re not a double rifle expert but there are little details that make a great big difference to the sale. If you can recollect EXACTLY which .458 cartridges came with that rifle versus those that came from other rifles, that matters greatly. Double rifles need to be tuned at the factory or “regulated” with a very specific load. Another brand of powder or a slightly different bullet can mean an accurate double rifle no longer can hit the broadside of a barn. Unfortunately the manufacture does not keep records so no one will know what that gun likes in the realm of ammunition but the original owner, and any clues that were from the ammo you already sold off. Not knowing means lots of labor, guessing, or having the gun re-regulated. Minus $500-$1000 on the value of the gun.

So search your notes and recollect the ammo make/model/weight/velocity that came with that gun as it will increase the result of the sale.
 
@brianNH you have received a lot of advice concerning originality, desirability, and value of this rifle.

Let me summarize mine.

1. This is indeed an original 88b in original .458 chambering. Though the .458 chambering is no longer offered, it was for over a decade and is listed as such in the Blue Book of Gun Values.

2. The quality of the photos isn't terrific, but based upon your description, any dealer specializing in doubles would call it very good to excellent condition. Blue Book lists the value of such a rifle in 90% condition at $10,250. Obviously, your opening bid baseline is an extremely good deal.

3. Though it would be nice to have the original load information for this rifle, I would guess 95% of the used doubles in this country are sold either without it because it was lost or because it is now irrelevant. In my opinion, that does not affect the value of the rifle at all, though it might affect someone's budget for such a double. A gunmaker like J.J. Perodeau could likely sort out a loading very quickly for this rifle without re-regulation due to is vast experience with Heym doubles.

4. Many people are convinced that a beltless chambering should never be offered in a double rifle. Many of those experts have never used or owned one so chambered. There is lots of highbrowed opinion in the shooting press supporting that conclusion. However, Heym, Kreighoff, and the other continental makers really do have this figured out. I suspect Heym probably has sold more .375 doubles than all its others combined. (The .375 also don't have a rim). I am confident this rifle will function exactly as advertised.

I would not lower your price a nickel. If it should survive this auction period, and were it mine, I wouldn't let it go for less than $8500.

And welcome indeed to the site!
 
@rookhawk @Red Leg What would it cost “estimate” to chamber to 450NE? I know JJ Perodeau/Champlin could do the work but would it be worth it....
 
That's most odd, as I did get several die sets with all these guns & ammo, but I haven't put any of them up on GB yet. Perhaps you're thinking of all the large exotic ammo I've been selling. I just went and looked at the pile of boxes of dies. I have (all RCBS) die sets for 375 H&H Magnum, 458 Win Mag, and 300 Wby Mag (the ones pertinent to this audience). I also have 30-06, 38/357, and 45 Colt.

I just looked them up on Midway. Oddly, the 458 Win Mag, which I figured might be expensive, is only $56 and they're in stock. OTOH, I recently decided to try getting into 6.5-300 Wby Mag to complement my 6.5-06 and 7mm-300 Win Mag rifles, and I had to wait weeks and pay $200 for that die set! The 300 Wby and 375 H&H are only $40 (not in stock). How come when I'm selling, things are cheap, and when I'm buying, things are expensive? ;-)

I'd sell them to you guys for 80% of Midway prices. You can check my GB feedback to see how reputable I am. https://www.gunbroker.com/a/feedback/profile/1185
$10 shipping one, $15 for several
brianNH,
Nevermind. Your rifle popped up on GB when I was looking at some reloading die sets and I thought you were selling them. Sorry for MY confusion.
CEH
 
My level of knowledge regarding break/falling action extractors is minimal, but I am aware of two rifles: Ruger #1 and Winchester 1885 (original HighWall). I was told by CP Donnelly, the most knowledgeable firearms guy that I've met, that the Ruger #1 would easily and regularly handle the extraction of rimless cases while the 1885 system required at least a semi-rim (such as the 220 Swift or 225 Win) to operate correctly. As such, if the action was designed for a rimless/belted cartridge, I would think, notwithstanding empirical evidence, then it should handle the cartridge. It appears from above that the rifle was built with the 458 Win Mag in mind, so I'd expect it to perform properly.
 
@brianNH welcome to the forum. Nice of you to drop in and provide more details as it is likely your bidders are coming from members of this group.

I know you’re not a double rifle expert but there are little details that make a great big difference to the sale. If you can recollect EXACTLY which .458 cartridges came with that rifle versus those that came from other rifles, that matters greatly. Double rifles need to be tuned at the factory or “regulated” with a very specific load. Another brand of powder or a slightly different bullet can mean an accurate double rifle no longer can hit the broadside of a barn. Unfortunately the manufacture does not keep records so no one will know what that gun likes in the realm of ammunition but the original owner, and any clues that were from the ammo you already sold off. Not knowing means lots of labor, guessing, or having the gun re-regulated. Minus $500-$1000 on the value of the gun.

So search your notes and recollect the ammo make/model/weight/velocity that came with that gun as it will increase the result of the sale.
For the ammo, there's no way to tell which of the 3 ammo types I had were used with this gun. It could be any or all of them. Possibly, but seems less likely, none of them. Two types were factory ammo (Rem & Norma), so that could be easily duplicated. The other two types were CHAA custom loads, and CHAA seems to no longer be in business. If someone bought the rifle and registration/ammo seemed to be a problem, I'm sure someone could buy back some of that CHAA ammo I sold. I have records of where it all went, and I'm sure one or more of the buyers would sell it back at a profit or trade it for new factory ammo. One buyer in particular bought some of each type - like over 20 boxes. If that path became necessary, I'd make sure it was OK with the ammo buyer, then I'd put the rifle buyer and ammo buyer in touch with each other. If someone was going to do that, they'd want to arrange it sooner, rather than later

I sure wish I still had some of that ammo here. I really wanted to shoot the gun anyway, and I could just fire the ammo in a registration test, as has been described to me, and then I cold tell you exactly how it shoots.
 
@Red Leg Thanks for all the advice. The gun will definitely sell tomorrow night. I made lots of mistakes in listing it. When I listed it, I really thought I'd end up just selling it to the person who'd made the original offer, and I didn't go through the photos carefully, or even pick a good ending time (a bit after 0100 East US coast). But then it calught a bid almost immediately, so I was stuck with what I'd created. So, at this point, the sale price is out of my hands. Even if GB software would let me bid on my own item (and I'm not at all confident it would - I've never tried it or seen such a thing on GB), I'd be out at least $300 to GB, and then I'd have to start all over again, albeit with a better, more informed and organized listing. So I don't plan to do that. It's a no reserve auction, and I plan to honor that and the rifle will sell for what the highest bidder is willing to pay for it tomorrow. No one wants to leave money on the table, especially appreciable sums, but I'm at peace with it - the gun is already priced at more than the original offer that was given to me, so I'll let the chips fall where they may.
 
@Red Leg Thanks for all the advice. The gun will definitely sell tomorrow night. I made lots of mistakes in listing it. When I listed it, I really thought I'd end up just selling it to the person who'd made the original offer, and I didn't go through the photos carefully, or even pick a good ending time (a bit after 0100 East US coast). But then it calught a bid almost immediately, so I was stuck with what I'd created. So, at this point, the sale price is out of my hands. Even if GB software would let me bid on my own item (and I'm not at all confident it would - I've never tried it or seen such a thing on GB), I'd be out at least $300 to GB, and then I'd have to start all over again, albeit with a better, more informed and organized listing. So I don't plan to do that. It's a no reserve auction, and I plan to honor that and the rifle will sell for what the highest bidder is willing to pay for it tomorrow. No one wants to leave money on the table, especially appreciable sums, but I'm at peace with it - the gun is already priced at more than the original offer that was given to me, so I'll let the chips fall where they may.
Next time I promise my verb subject agreement will be better. :confused: Not to mention typing "beltless" when I meant "rimless." Sigh, perils of typing on an I-Phone in a great Tex Mex restaurant (full - an hour wait - with no masks - may God bless Texas!) over a second hand-crafted Patron Margarita. :A Band:

Looks like the listing is drawing some interest. Will likely move up. I currently have a .470, 500/416, and .375 in a double (not counting the 9.3x74R's) so I can't justify this one. Otherwise it would have a new home. Good luck with the auction!
 
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@rookhawk @Red Leg What would it cost “estimate” to chamber to 450NE? I know JJ Perodeau/Champlin could do the work but would it be worth it....

Rechamber. $500? Mill the ejector spurs to correct size, tig weld up the spring actuators for the 458, $350? Re-regulate the wedge for a factory 450NE load, $500 Plus ammo?

While you’re at it, don’t stop there. Refinish the wood which has a very mediocre finish but hasn’t been sanded down, so put a nice oil finish on it. $350. Polish the action to get the discoloration off of it. $350. Reblack the barrels so they look like new. $500.

Probably all-in $2500 and it will be a like new gun. Of course, you could surely find a more modern Heym in 450, 470, or 500 in that $12000-$13000 range. But if you got this gun for the price I stated it was worth as-is early in the thread, you’re slightly ahead on money. If you go with Redleg’s estimated value, then do the work I mentioned to make it like new and a 450NE, you’re at dead-even money as it would take to just go buy a lightly used Heym 450NE.
 
For the ammo, there's no way to tell which of the 3 ammo types I had were used with this gun. It could be any or all of them. Possibly, but seems less likely, none of them. Two types were factory ammo (Rem & Norma), so that could be easily duplicated. The other two types were CHAA custom loads, and CHAA seems to no longer be in business. If someone bought the rifle and registration/ammo seemed to be a problem, I'm sure someone could buy back some of that CHAA ammo I sold. I have records of where it all went, and I'm sure one or more of the buyers would sell it back at a profit or trade it for new factory ammo. One buyer in particular bought some of each type - like over 20 boxes. If that path became necessary, I'd make sure it was OK with the ammo buyer, then I'd put the rifle buyer and ammo buyer in touch with each other. If someone was going to do that, they'd want to arrange it sooner, rather than later

I sure wish I still had some of that ammo here. I really wanted to shoot the gun anyway, and I could just fire the ammo in a registration test, as has been described to me, and then I cold tell you exactly how it shoots.

If it was any of the three, it was the Norma ammo that went with the gun.

In that era, the Germans were regulating with Norma and Bitenberger <sp?> Austrian ammo as far as I know. Later on, they started dabbling with Federal ammo but the Federal ammo recipes changed making the new stuff not regulate often times. Then later they started doing both Federal and Hornady.

@brianNH I think you’re doing fine on the sale. Your eyes won’t deceive you. You can look on the sold guns section of this site and see many Heyms of a more modern era have sold here. The newer guns had vastly more impressive wood (a rather recent change in customer preferences) and were in higher demand calibers. Those guns sold in the $11,000-$17,000 range with $13,000 being a good average. Yours won’t fetch those sums as it is a bit of apples-to-oranges, but it won’t stay at current listing price either. The market will show you what its worth as its a well discussed and well advertised gun at auction.
 
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@rookhawk @Red Leg What would it cost “estimate” to chamber to 450NE? I know JJ Perodeau/Champlin could do the work but would it be worth it....

Or just use it as a .458 which God and Heym intended. :E Shrug: Get J.J. to work up a load, wipe down the barrels, but some oil on the stock, and go shoot a buffalo. Looks like a pretty good deal to me.
 
Or just use it as a .458 which God and Heym intended. :E Shrug: Get J.J. to work up a load, wipe down the barrels, but some oil on the stock, and go shoot a buffalo. Looks like a pretty good deal to me.
Or at most, rechamber to Lott so the pressure could be reduced a bit. Then load to Win mag ballistics and regulation. Wonder if that's feasible?
 
Or at most, rechamber to Lott so the pressure could be reduced a bit. Then load to Win mag ballistics and regulation. Wonder if that's feasible?
Maybe though I have no doubt it would require complete re-regulation. I just don't like extending the throat on a double rifle or drilling. There isn't usually the barrel thickness one finds on a typical bolt action. Regardless, the rifle would no longer be "in proof," regardless of one's loading intent, which would seriously hurt its resale value.
 
Maybe though I have no doubt it would require complete re-regulation. I just don't like extending the throat on a double rifle or drilling. There isn't usually the barrel thickness one finds on a typical bolt action. Regardless, the rifle would no longer be "in proof," regardless of one's loading intent, which would seriously hurt its resale value.
Good points.
 

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