Has anyone ever had a Core Lokt truly "fail"

Andries Marais

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If an animal is lost either the bullet or the hunter failed. Both are unacceptable regarding hunting ethics. There is no way a hunter can miss the animal when shooting from an ethical distance - he may miss the heart, maybe. When doing a tummy shot beyond 300 metres the animal will not even show being hit and will trot off as it would normally do after a shot.

So, if proper tracking is used and the mule deer eventually found as darkness set in, and it is seen that the jacket had seperated right at the stomach lining and stayed there, and the flattened lead carried on and nicked the liver and did not even exit the opposite stomach lining, and the animal died a mile on into the black scrub oak brush, both the bullet and the hunter failed.

I found exactly that in Colorado with a client from Pennsylvania, using a 150 gr CoreLokt in his 7 mm Rem Magnum shooting from a dead rest 320 yards away.

His other mule dear shot closer (78 yards), properly into the low shoulder for the heart we found 200 yards into the juniper, down but still alive, with a devastated shoulder and only slivers into the on-side lung lobe. Since 2010 / 2102 the core of the CoreLokt is not locked anymore. Prior to 2000 it was a good bullet like the Hornady Interlock. Now it is not the bullet for the ethical hunter anymore.
 

PaulT

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I only just recently bought a small parcel of 225gn .338 cal Core-Lokts.

Interestingly they are now designated "Ultra-Bond" Core-Lokts.
Don't know how long that has been the case but according to Remington media they are "our way of improving on an already excellent projectile" by "improving" the bond between the core and the jacket.
The front (top) half has not changed, meaning a mushrooming tip but the back half, base has been re-inforced.

Not quite sure what that all means but up to date I have had reliable and predictable results from the old school Core-Lokts when used within the parameters that they were designed for.

A new Core-lokts that holds together better and potentially handles velocity a bit better but still penetrates AND expands is all good news for me in my particular application.
 

dan donnelly

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I have killed quite a few moose with the Remington 180 grain 30-06 core-lokts . I lost one moose a few years ago that still pains me to this day but it wasn't the bullets fault. It was mine.
 

Foxi

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antique status Remington Core-Lokt and Hornady Inter-Lock, round nose bullets
Velo Dog.

General Miles,
always interesting to read your( and other) presentations (y)
The gentleman below(Sokrates) was already wondering whether the CoreLokt bullets were really any good :sleep:

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Bonk

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Bullet performance, bullet construction, caliber, velocity, BC, barrel length, CRF vs PF and the intricacies of reloading are fodder for on-line forums but in the real world most hunters/shooters don't care. They buy off the rack rifles in common calibers and feed them whatever ammo is on the shelf. Then they go out and kill a lot of deer, moose, antelope, bear, coyotes and other game.

The major gun manufacturers and major ammo producers happen to know a little bit about what they're doing. Most of them have been in business for over a century. They know how to build capable and functional rifles and they know how to manufacture quality effective ammo. All the circular debates we have about rifles and ammo is interesting but it's largely academic. Whatever differences MIGHT exist between premium rifles/ammo and ordinary rifles/ammo has almost no influence on whether or not meat gets put on the table. Shot placement and the vagaries of each animal's constitution are both way more important than bullet construction. If you put a bullet through the heart/lungs or brain it will die and the caliber, velocity and bullet construction are only minimally important.

Since we are on the topic though I might as well add my two cents to this circular debate. IMO the quest for maximum velocity has outpaced (pun intended) the bullet manufacturer's ability to keep up. Bullets designed to operate at normal velocities will fail at high speed and bullets designed to operate at high velocities will not work as advertised at less than optimum speed. As a reloader almost every bullet I buy has a recommended velocity range because bullet construction has gotten so specialized most of them only work as advertised under controlled circumstances. The idea of a general all purpose bullet is becoming an anachronism.

AH is a small subset of hunting overall. The game we pursue (or in my case hope to pursue) and the guns we use are different from most of the hunting world. We talk about 40 caliber rifles, monolithic bullets and dangerous game. In the real world a 300WinMag is a monster caliber that most hunters think is overkill. They use 243, 30-30, 270, 308 and 30-06 rifles and buy their ammo at Walmart or Cabelas. Because of that Remington CoreLokt and similar ammo has killed and will continue to kill more game than all the premium ammo and reloaded ammo combined. They couldn't care less about +/-100fps of muzzle velocity or whether or not they recover the bullet. All they want is meat and maybe a rack big enough for a little bragging rights. Whether or not the bullet separated is completely beside the point.

Even though I hope to hunt Africa someday and even though I own some pretty cool rifles in some pretty cool calibers I'm basically a venison hunter. I don't agonize over velocity, bullet construction, or bullet recovery. Meat on the ground is the goal and as long as that happens neither me or the animal cares whether the bullet retained 99% of it's mass. Dead is dead.

I almost forget, I've never had a CoreLokt bullet fail. Whatever that means. The game died every single time.

YMMV
 
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Standard Velocity

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Bullet performance, bullet construction, caliber, velocity, BC, barrel length, CRF vs PF and the intricacies of reloading are fodder for on-line forums but in the real world most hunters/shooters don't care. They buy off the rack rifles in common calibers and feed them whatever ammo is on the shelf. Then they go out and kill a lot of deer, moose, antelope, bear, coyotes and other game.

The major gun manufacturers and major ammo producers happen to know a little bit about what they're doing. Most of them have been in business for over a century. They know how to build capable and functional rifles and they know how to manufacture quality effective ammo. All the circular debates we have about rifles and ammo is interesting but it's largely academic. Whatever differences MIGHT exist between premium rifles/ammo and ordinary rifles/ammo has almost no influence on whether or not meat gets put on the table. Shot placement and the vagaries of each animal's constitution are both way more important than bullet construction. If you put a bullet through the heart/lungs or brain it will die and the caliber, velocity and bullet construction are only minimally important.

Since we are on the topic though I might as well add my two cents to this circular debate. IMO the quest for maximum velocity has outpaced (pun intended) the bullet manufacturer's ability to keep up. Bullets designed to operate at normal velocities will fail at high speed and bullets designed to operate at high velocities will not work as advertised at less than optimum speed. As a reloader almost every bullet I buy has a recommended velocity range because bullet construction has gotten so specialized most of them only work as advertised under controlled circumstances. The idea of a general all purpose bullet is becoming an anachronism.

AH is a small subset of hunting overall. The game we pursue (or in my case hope to pursue) and the guns we use are different from most of the hunting world. We talk about 40 caliber rifles, monolithic bullets and dangerous game. In the real world a 300WinMag is a monster caliber that most hunters think is overkill. They use 243, 30-30, 270, 308 and 30-06 rifles and buy their ammo at Walmart or Cabelas. Because of that Remington CoreLokt and similar ammo has killed and will continue to kill more game than all the premium ammo and reloaded ammo combined. They couldn't care less about +/-100fps of muzzle velocity or whether or not they recover the bullet. All they want is meat and maybe a rack big enough for a little bragging rights. Whether or not the bullet separated is completely beside the point.

Even though I hope to hunt Africa someday and even though I own some pretty cool rifles in some pretty cool calibers I'm basically a venison hunter. I don't agonize over velocity, bullet construction, or bullet recovery. Meat on the ground is the goal and as long as that happens neither me or the animal cares whether the bullet retained 99% of it's mass. Dead is dead.

I almost forget, I've never had a CoreLokt bullet fail. Whatever that means. The game died every single time.

YMMV

Many truths here. Especially about the specialization of bullets and the sometimes narrow performance envelope. When the fastest cartridge only went kinda fast none of this was problematic. My 400 yard Supper Pooper may be a varmint bullet at 20 yards.

I do believe Joe Sixpack wounds more animals than you’re giving him credit for though. I hunt with a guy who’s definitely not a gun guy. He replaced his 30-06 with a 308 because he doesn’t like recoil. When he zeroed his rifle I was there. He was using 150 grain FMJ. I asked him what he was going to use to actually shoot a deer with and he looked confused.

He’d planned on using these because they were what were on sale. It was also news to him that when he bought appropriate bullets he was going to have to check zero again. This is reasonably intelligent guy who is just ignorant of anything having to do with guns.

You know how manufacturers have started putting pictures of what the bullet will work on right on the box? I like that. Might not agree with all of their optimistic bullet performance claims but at least the picture of a squirrel should discourage use on elk.
 

CoElkHunter

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Bullet performance, bullet construction, caliber, velocity, BC, barrel length, CRF vs PF and the intricacies of reloading are fodder for on-line forums but in the real world most hunters/shooters don't care. They buy off the rack rifles in common calibers and feed them whatever ammo is on the shelf. Then they go out and kill a lot of deer, moose, antelope, bear, coyotes and other game.

The major gun manufacturers and major ammo producers happen to know a little bit about what they're doing. Most of them have been in business for over a century. They know how to build capable and functional rifles and they know how to manufacture quality effective ammo. All the circular debates we have about rifles and ammo is interesting but it's largely academic. Whatever differences MIGHT exist between premium rifles/ammo and ordinary rifles/ammo has almost no influence on whether or not meat gets put on the table. Shot placement and the vagaries of each animal's constitution are both way more important than bullet construction. If you put a bullet through the heart/lungs or brain it will die and the caliber, velocity and bullet construction are only minimally important.

Since we are on the topic though I might as well add my two cents to this circular debate. IMO the quest for maximum velocity has outpaced (pun intended) the bullet manufacturer's ability to keep up. Bullets designed to operate at normal velocities will fail at high speed and bullets designed to operate at high velocities will not work as advertised at less than optimum speed. As a reloader almost every bullet I buy has a recommended velocity range because bullet construction has gotten so specialized most of them only work as advertised under controlled circumstances. The idea of a general all purpose bullet is becoming an anachronism.

AH is a small subset of hunting overall. The game we pursue (or in my case hope to pursue) and the guns we use are different from most of the hunting world. We talk about 40 caliber rifles, monolithic bullets and dangerous game. In the real world a 300WinMag is a monster caliber that most hunters think is overkill. They use 243, 30-30, 270, 308 and 30-06 rifles and buy their ammo at Walmart or Cabelas. Because of that Remington CoreLokt and similar ammo has killed and will continue to kill more game than all the premium ammo and reloaded ammo combined. They couldn't care less about +/-100fps of muzzle velocity or whether or not they recover the bullet. All they want is meat and maybe a rack big enough for a little bragging rights. Whether or not the bullet separated is completely beside the point.

Even though I hope to hunt Africa someday and even though I own some pretty cool rifles in some pretty cool calibers I'm basically a venison hunter. I don't agonize over velocity, bullet construction, or bullet recovery. Meat on the ground is the goal and as long as that happens neither me or the animal cares whether the bullet retained 99% of it's mass. Dead is dead.

I almost forget, I've never had a CoreLokt bullet fail. Whatever that means. The game died every single time.

YMMV
Great post and valid points to this thread! Your absolutely correct as to what MOST hunters at least here in the U.S., buy for rifles and ammo. An inexpensive, modern Remington, Winchester, Browning, Savage, Mossberg, etc. rifles and inexpensive Remington, Winchester, Federal or Hornady ammo. They don’t/wouldn’t know what a CRF action is if the claw extractor bit them in the ass! I say this, because I was of the same ignorance and mind set until a couple of years ago. I had always thought a Ruger was a CRF action? Anyway, as you have said, they go out every hunting season and are generally successful with their rifles and ammo when 99 percent of them aren’t hunting DG.
 

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I do believe Joe Sixpack wounds more animals than you’re giving him credit for though.

I don't disagree with that at all. Avid hunters will tend to pass on shots they shouldn't take, will pay more attention to shot placement and will exhaust every possible effort to find game they've wounded. That's not to say annual deer hunters don't do those things because most of them do but if a hunter doesn't consistently do those things they're usually not someone who hunts year round.
 

CoElkHunter

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Many truths here. Especially about the specialization of bullets and the sometimes narrow performance envelope. When the fastest cartridge only went kinda fast none of this was problematic. My 400 yard Supper Pooper may be a varmint bullet at 20 yards.

I do believe Joe Sixpack wounds more animals than you’re giving him credit for though. I hunt with a guy who’s definitely not a gun guy. He replaced his 30-06 with a 308 because he doesn’t like recoil. When he zeroed his rifle I was there. He was using 150 grain FMJ. I asked him what he was going to use to actually shoot a deer with and he looked confused.

He’d planned on using these because they were what were on sale. It was also news to him that when he bought appropriate bullets he was going to have to check zero again. This is reasonably intelligent guy who is just ignorant of anything having to do with guns.

You know how manufacturers have started putting pictures of what the bullet will work on right on the box? I like that. Might not agree with all of their optimistic bullet performance claims but at least the picture of a squirrel should discourage use on elk.
I agree with your “Joe Sixpack” analogy. But it’s usually (always?) poor bullet placement and not a problem with the rifle or ammo. In my hunting “circle”, I deal with “Joe Three Shots From The Bench” and lets go hunting! Probably, very prevalent throughout the hunting world for a LARGE PERCENTAGE of “hunters”? It’s no wonder why game is missed or much worse, wounded and lost!
 

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Bullet performance, bullet construction, caliber, velocity, BC, barrel length, CRF vs PF and the intricacies of reloading are fodder for on-line forums but in the real world most hunters/shooters don't care. They buy off the rack rifles in common calibers and feed them whatever ammo is on the shelf. Then they go out and kill a lot of deer, moose, antelope, bear, coyotes and other game.

The major gun manufacturers and major ammo producers happen to know a little bit about what they're doing. Most of them have been in business for over a century. They know how to build capable and functional rifles and they know how to manufacture quality effective ammo. All the circular debates we have about rifles and ammo is interesting but it's largely academic. Whatever differences MIGHT exist between premium rifles/ammo and ordinary rifles/ammo has almost no influence on whether or not meat gets put on the table. Shot placement and the vagaries of each animal's constitution are both way more important than bullet construction. If you put a bullet through the heart/lungs or brain it will die and the caliber, velocity and bullet construction are only minimally important.

Since we are on the topic though I might as well add my two cents to this circular debate. IMO the quest for maximum velocity has outpaced (pun intended) the bullet manufacturer's ability to keep up. Bullets designed to operate at normal velocities will fail at high speed and bullets designed to operate at high velocities will not work as advertised at less than optimum speed. As a reloader almost every bullet I buy has a recommended velocity range because bullet construction has gotten so specialized most of them only work as advertised under controlled circumstances. The idea of a general all purpose bullet is becoming an anachronism.

AH is a small subset of hunting overall. The game we pursue (or in my case hope to pursue) and the guns we use are different from most of the hunting world. We talk about 40 caliber rifles, monolithic bullets and dangerous game. In the real world a 300WinMag is a monster caliber that most hunters think is overkill. They use 243, 30-30, 270, 308 and 30-06 rifles and buy their ammo at Walmart or Cabelas. Because of that Remington CoreLokt and similar ammo has killed and will continue to kill more game than all the premium ammo and reloaded ammo combined. They couldn't care less about +/-100fps of muzzle velocity or whether or not they recover the bullet. All they want is meat and maybe a rack big enough for a little bragging rights. Whether or not the bullet separated is completely beside the point.

Even though I hope to hunt Africa someday and even though I own some pretty cool rifles in some pretty cool calibers I'm basically a venison hunter. I don't agonize over velocity, bullet construction, or bullet recovery. Meat on the ground is the goal and as long as that happens neither me or the animal cares whether the bullet retained 99% of it's mass. Dead is dead.

I almost forget, I've never had a CoreLokt bullet fail. Whatever that means. The game died every single time.

YMMV

Everything right what you wrote here. Everything I could sign.
But I know more Joe Sixpack hunters as I like.
Never see these guys at the range,dont use dogs and all animals are droping with the bang.
Still, there's no harm for an alert hunter trying to optimise himself in the race of time.
In Namibia there is no game as often ill shot as the oryx antelope, this game is the blueprint and standard for a good bullet (and good hit).
Im sure for roes and whitetails is a core lokt bullet enough,
 
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