Gun safe recommendation

[mdwest]

@mdwest I read the post/reply from @SStomcat - maybe it’s not that your point was lost but Not agreed with and I also have a different take especially with your comment that (paraphrasing: a prograde safe vs one bought at Academy Sports is “statistically unnecessary”) —- by that logic owning ANY Safe is “Statistically Unnecessary”. Some people “hide” valuables and that can be more effective (if well hidden) that placing in a Cheap Safe. Someone/a thief sees a Safe and correctly assumes “something valuable is in there” then decide “can I open it? No special tools are need to open a cheap safe and many homes already contain the ax, hammer, crow bar etc.. that can be used. If the safe is in a Garage or basement — the “tools” might be conspicuously near the safe.
Every step a firearms owner takes to secure their firearm is ‘progressive’, from not leaving it out on your front porch, to inside your house, in a closet, locked in a cabinet-Safe-walk in Vault Etc. Every progressive step reduces risk. I agree a cheap safe is better then none and a Good safe is Better-the-cheap safe. Cost will always drive decisions and people will also weigh their own risk tolerance, also can your home “accommodate” a 1500lb to 4000 lb safe in the area you want it? While the phrase “anything can be broken into” is true - the odds get lower and lower the Higher the quality of your safe gets. Many on AH enjoy buying very high quality firearms and while a $50,000 gun is “Not needed” it is enjoyed and has some qualities lower end guns may Not but regardless of cost—they all meet the “basic” purpose they was designed for. Also, for some their possessions have a value not measured only in $$ dollars so having them stolen is Not rectified just by getting a check from their insurance company. I don’t own a $100,000+ safe or Bank Vault quality walk-in….But I would certainly enjoy it if I did

How many burglaries and / or theft of property cases have you worked?

You can spout theory and supposition all day long.. your theory and supposition simply isn’t supported by fact however…

Once again, nowhere has it been said don’t own a safe..

What has been said repeatedly is that for the typical middle income family the need for a pro grade safe for the purpose of security is statistically unnecessary… a common/typical/pedestrian safe more than accomplishes the mission of mitigating or negating the prevalent threats…

We aren’t talking about a locker… non pro grade would be liberty, canon, and the like (as mentioned in prior posts)..

Your $50k gun argument is a red herring… the typical middle income family doesn’t own any $50k firearms.. the overwhelming majority won’t own $50k in total value in all of their firearms..

There are plenty of reasons to own a litany of different safety and security devices.. and obviously there are exceptions to every rule… one of those exceptions might be you just want to own a $20k safe…

You are far better off however developing security plans and protocols and acquiring and using security tools and devices based on actual threats…

Professional thieves are not a common threat to middle income families… $50k in hypothetical firearms isn’t enough to get a pro to remotely consider you as a target (understand there is a difference between a pro and a simple career criminal),,,

And amateurs do not typically have the tools, knowledge, skills, or abilities to get into even the most common of safes…

And your typical smash and grab thief not only doesn’t have the knowledge, skills, or abilities… he also doesn’t have the time available..

The set up ruses nonsense in the context it’s been presented is exactly that.. nonsense.. (and I’m actually a very big fan of ruses.. I’ve used fake cameras, oversized dog bowls, and a host of other tricks over the years for a variety of purposes)…

Don’t want to trust a guy that worked the streets for a decade, was assigned to a street crimes unit and a gang unit at different times that handled lots of burglary cases and theft of property cases…that’s done PVSA (personal vulnerability security assessments) for a couple of dozen high net worth and/or high profile people, and run CARVER-SHOCK (targeting analysis on physical structures) a couple of hundred times... cool… do your own thing…

Maybe ask @Goopy … he spent close to three decades, most of that in leadership roles in detective/investigative units his thoughts on the matter… I think he’s done quite a bit of insurance investigation work on the private side as well..

I believe there are a number of others here that also worked investigations at major agencies as well… perhaps one of them will chime in..

 

[HankBuck]

How many burglaries and / or theft of property cases have you worked?

You can spout theory and supposition all day long.. your theory and supposition simply isn’t supported by fact however…

Once again, nowhere has it been said don’t own a safe..

What has been said repeatedly is that for the typical middle income family the need for a pro grade safe for the purpose of security is statistically unnecessary… a common/typical/pedestrian safe more than accomplishes the mission of mitigating or negating the prevalent threats…

We aren’t talking about a locker… non pro grade would be liberty, canon, and the like (as mentioned in prior posts)..

Your $50k gun argument is a red herring… the typical middle income family doesn’t own any $50k firearms.. the overwhelming majority won’t own $50k in total value in all of their firearms..

There are plenty of reasons to own a litany of different safety and security devices.. and obviously there are exceptions to every rule… one of those exceptions might be you just want to own a $10k safe…

You are far better off however developing security plans and protocols and acquiring and using security tools and devices based on actual threats…

Professional thieves are not a common threat to middle income families… $50k in hypothetical firearms isn’t enough to get a pro to remotely consider you as a target (understand there is a difference between a pro and a simple career criminal),,,

And amateurs do not typically have the tools, knowledge, skills, or abilities to get into even the most common of safes…

And your typical smash and grab thief not only doesn’t have the knowledge, skills, or abilities… he also doesn’t have the time available..

The set up ruses nonsense in the context it’s been presented is exactly that.. nonsense.. (and I’m actually a very big fan of ruses.. I’ve used fake cameras, oversized dog bowls, and a host of other tricks over the years for a variety of purposes)…

Don’t want to trust a guy that worked the streets for a decade, was assigned to a street crimes unit and a gang unit at different times that handled lots of burglary cases and theft of property cases…that’s done PVSA (personal vulnerability security assessments) for a couple of dozen high net worth and/or high profile people, and run CARVER-SHOCK (targeting analysis on physical structures) a couple of hundred times... cool… do your own thing…

Maybe ask @Goopy … he spent close to three decades, most of that in leadership roles in detective/investigative units his thoughts on the matter… I think he’s done quite a bit of insurance investigation work on the private side as well..

I believe there are a number of others here that also worked investigations at major agencies as well… perhaps one of them will chime in..

@mdwest - yep, we disagree. You have No point that indicates a Good safe isn’t better then a cheap one and there’s No disadvantage to owning a Top Quality safe —- but your opinion is that it isn’t “statistically necessary” and I have to agree with you on that because crime statistics support it. It’s not that I “don’t want to trust a guy that worked the streets for a decade” (assuming you were a Cop and Not a Hooker?). The problem with only considering “statistics & averages” is that they are meaningless Until-it-happens-to-YOU. The only burglary that matters is the one that happens to your home and for that reason some want to be over prepared. If they can afford the upgrade in quality - there is No downside. Two companies I worked for used only “B” rated Non fireproof safes, some nights they held $100k in cash. We had less then one burglary a year (company & Nation wide) where the safe was compromised and most cash ever lost was under $20k and always it was an “inside job”. We never considered an upgrade to the safes - not cost effective to upgrade safes in 2000 locations for the level of burglary’s we had - didn't make business sense “statistically”. Also, NYPD never solved one burglary and neither did any other PD department across the Country - it’s a low priority. We paid close attention to statistics in my companies But my home is MY concern and the only burglary that matters is “if” one occurs in my home. If I’m over protected or “Over safed” - thats fine. You may have a different view and you are not alone - neither am I.

 

[DaddyFlip]

You guys are making this way to complicated. The serious gun collector/enthusiast/hunter only needs the most safe he can afford to prevent his SO from having access to the value/quantity of the collection.

 

[Sabre]

the typical middle income family doesn’t own any $50k firearms.. the overwhelming majority won’t own $50k in total value in all of their firearms..

 

[Odinsraven]

I have always built my own vaults
.... inexpensive and a little more space.Cost is minimal a decent secure door can be prefabricated.then rack out the room.. even a small closet can store an amazing amount of guns.

 

[Bandera]

I use liberty Safes. There is a store in Birmingham, Marks Outdoors, that has great prices on safes. The low prices they offer are worth the 1 1/2 hour drive.
Shop round locally you can probably find a decent retailer for safes.
Gander Mountain used to have some pretty decent deals on safes.

 

[mdwest]

@mdwest Also, NYPD never solved one burglary and neither did any other PD department across the Country - it’s a low priority.

They might not have solved your crimes.. but they solve A LOT, and in most departments theft of property of any sort is indeed a priority.. lots of money gets spent on training, equipment, and personnel… and lots of hours are spent on investigations..

If your crimes weren’t being solved, and other people’s crimes are… I’d be questioning why that is… there is clearly more to the story..

Most major agencies have entire units assigned to property crimes, and have detectives whose sole purpose is theft of property.

Specific to NYPD, minor burglaries and theft crimes are investigated by precinct level assigned detectives.

Each borough has a Grand Larceny and Burglary unit for major burglaries.

NYPD also has the BLAST squad, Burglary Larceny Apprehension Surveillance Teams whose sole purpose is to identify burglary patterns and then set up surveillance and stings on burglars.

They make thousands of burglary arrests every year, and spend millions on investigations of burglaries..

Hardly a low priority..

As recently as yesterday NYPD was hitting its social media accounts talking about the success of its burglary squads… burglaries are down 10% in 2025 from 2024 numbers because of their efforts..

 

[mdwest]

@mdwest always it was an “inside job”.

You’re making my point for me…

In middle income homes, theft of valuables is almost always also an inside job..

It’s the drunk neighbor you had over for dinner… the drug addict shithead friend of your kid… the housekeeper… the handyman you hired to fix the sink… your own shithead kid.. etc… and the overwhelming number of those thefts are things that can be pocketed… expensive watches, rings, smart phones, etc… (things that should also be in a safe if not monitored and people are around but don’t require a pro grade safe to keep them out)..

If your firm was expertise jobs, who was conducting the investigation to determine that?

I’m assuming your firm had internal security and/or investigations personnel?

 

[Major Bonkers]

Gentlemen... it's taken five pages or so for this topic to sink to passive aggression.

For what it's worth, I think that you both make good points, and you are probably closer to each other's position than you think.

The original question - just to remind you! - was: Looking for a standing gun safe that will not break the bank and not too big or bulky. Good for couple of rifles and handguns and few more extras.

It is the season of peace of Earth and good will to all men (even to those whom we disagree with). Let's move on.

 

[HankBuck]

You’re making my point for me…

In middle income homes, theft of valuables is almost always also an inside job..

It’s the drunk neighbor you had over for dinner… the drug addict shithead friend of your kid… the housekeeper… the handyman you hired to fix the sink… your own shithead kid.. etc… and the overwhelming number of those thefts are things that can be pocketed… expensive watches, rings, smart phones, etc… (things that should also be in a safe if not monitored and people are around but don’t require a pro grade safe to keep them out)..

If your firm was expertise jobs, who was conducting the investigation to determine that?

I’m assuming your firm had internal security and/or investigations personnel?

@mdwest —Nope, Not making your point for you - YOU need to do that, we are not as far apart as you seem to think and if you could be “less sensitive” notice we agree on many points

 

[mdwest]

@mdwest —Nope, Not making your point for you - YOU need to do that, we are not as far apart as you seem to think and if you could be “less sensitive” notice we agree on many points

You may not mean to… and it’s completely irrelevant if you don’t want to…

You very clearly made the same point..

Inside jobs are the common threat…

And a pro grade safe is not what’s needed to address that particular threst

 

[mdwest]

Gentlemen... it's taken five pages or so for this topic to sink to passive aggression.

For what it's worth, I think that you both make good points, and you are probably closer to each other's position than you think.

The original question - just to remind you! - was: Looking for a standing gun safe that will not break the bank and not too big or bulky. Good for couple of rifles and handguns and few more extras.

It is the season of peace of Earth and good will to all men (even to those whom we disagree with). Let's move on.

There’s nothing passive about it at all lol..

He’s wrong

He can’t present facts to support his position… he only presents opinions..

And those opinions aren’t supported by experience, training, education, or factual data…

 

[HankBuck]

They might not have solved your crimes.. but they solve A LOT, and in most departments theft of property of any sort is indeed a priority.. lots of money gets spent on training, equipment, and personnel… and lots of hours are spent on investigations..

If your crimes weren’t being solved, and other people’s crimes are… I’d be questioning why that is… there is clearly more to the story..

Most major agencies have entire units assigned to property crimes, and have detectives whose sole purpose is theft of property.

Specific to NYPD, minor burglaries and theft crimes are investigated by precinct level assigned detectives.

Each borough has a Grand Larceny and Burglary unit for major burglaries.

NYPD also has the BLAST squad, Burglary Larceny Apprehension Surveillance Teams whose sole purpose is to identify burglary patterns and then set up surveillance and stings on burglars.

They make thousands of burglary arrests every year, and spend millions on investigations of burglaries..

Hardly a low priority..

As recently as yesterday NYPD was hitting its social media accounts talking about the success of its burglary squads… burglaries are down 10% in 2025 from 2024 numbers because of their efforts..

@mdwest - now let’s clear up one important detail (and I re read my post) I never said or implied NYPD never solved Burglary cases but they Never solved the few I had in the 1980s & 90s and I did Not expect them to (more then 1/2 had an inside connection our internal team could prove & prosecute). We also employed many NYPD officers that moon lighted for Security companies and while they could Not work in uniform they were much better at handling rough situations that our InHouse security personnel could Not…they also helped us get excellent response and cooperation from NYPD that we would’ve been unable to get on our own. We understood NYPD was not going to solve our minor burglary’s or smash & grabs in most cases as Midtown South and other precincts had higher priorities then recovering a few $1000 (Manhattan had 2000 homicides some years). Twice we had a serious investigation done where finger prints were taken. One was for a burglary where over $10,000 in cash was taken from our “cheap safe”..but the detective told me that “you know this is mostly for show because you’re a major business in the City”, he indicated most burglary’s are solved when a burglar is caught/arrested in the act or someone rats him out and then he “admits” to a string of open burglary cases.
Response time to alarms in NYC in the 80s & 90s was 3 to 10 minutes but sometimes not at all - so were invested in better doors, thicker glass (3/4” tempered) and roll down gates. Burglary’s were reduced over 90% but our cost was over $300k for the upgrades. It was not a financial savings but employees felt safer, customers didn’t have to see our businesses “boarded up” for days at a time. PD in Manhattan were very effective and No nonsense guys that handled a rough characters ——in an appropriate rough way….they didn’t take any crap.
Now, back to “Safes” - keep an open mind like Me

 

[Tanks]

They might not have solved your crimes.. but they solve A LOT, and in most departments theft of property of any sort is indeed a priority.. lots of money gets spent on training, equipment, and personnel… and lots of hours are spent on investigations

One thing impressed me back in 1989, I had a pair of expensive sun glasses stolen from my car. I reported it to the police. Two days later I get a call to come and pick it up. A high school kid had stolen it and school resource officer had noticed it on him.

Of course, this was Friendswood,TX A small town back then.

 

[Russ16]

They might not have solved your crimes.. but they solve A LOT, and in most departments theft of property of any sort is indeed a priority.. lots of money gets spent on training, equipment, and personnel… and lots of hours are spent on investigations..

If your crimes weren’t being solved, and other people’s crimes are… I’d be questioning why that is… there is clearly more to the story..

Most major agencies have entire units assigned to property crimes, and have detectives whose sole purpose is theft of property.

Specific to NYPD, minor burglaries and theft crimes are investigated by precinct level assigned detectives.

Each borough has a Grand Larceny and Burglary unit for major burglaries.

NYPD also has the BLAST squad, Burglary Larceny Apprehension Surveillance Teams whose sole purpose is to identify burglary patterns and then set up surveillance and stings on burglars.

They make thousands of burglary arrests every year, and spend millions on investigations of burglaries..

Hardly a low priority..

As recently as yesterday NYPD was hitting its social media accounts talking about the success of its burglary squads… burglaries are down 10% in 2025 from 2024 numbers because of their efforts..

This level of investigation probably varies from area to area.

Growing up in Dallas in a middle class neighborhood we had our garage burgled three times and radio stolen out of a car in the driveway one night. Stuff like a lawnmower and tools mostly. Value was $500-$1300 or so in late 1980s dollars.

Each time DPD told us they would give us a police report if we wanted it for insurance, but wouldn’t do more than that. They never even sent someone to see the garage door that was forced with a crowbar.

Strangest thing that was stolen was a full size punching bag that was hanging in the garage. They could have taken it down in a few minutes but cut the chain with a bolt cutter. Always wondered why they wanted that.

 

[BJH65]

You’re making my point for me…

In middle income homes, theft of valuables is almost always also an inside job..

It’s the drunk neighbor you had over for dinner… the drug addict shithead friend of your kid… the housekeeper… the handyman you hired to fix the sink… your own shithead kid.. etc… and the overwhelming number of those thefts are things that can be pocketed… expensive watches, rings, smart phones, etc… (things that should also be in a safe if not monitored and people are around but don’t require a pro grade safe to keep them out)..

If your firm was expertise jobs, who was conducting the investigation to determine that?

I’m assuming your firm had internal security and/or investigations personnel?

I agree with Mr. West. Having spent a 25 year career in law enforcement policing a population of several million working a variety of assignments, I can recall of exactly one residential burglary where a gun safe was cut open by professionals and several commercial businesses that had a safes cut open with cutting tools ( no guns, cash only).

@HankBuck stating NYPD and any other department not solving one burglary? Well, um that’s simply incorrect but I see he clarified that. Now, what I will say is most every agency has limited resources and investigative personnel to assign an open burglary case and their caseload will be prioritized accordingly. For us, depending open the amount or value will dictate what resources will be expended, unfortunately that’s the reality.

What’s really amazing is I started my career as a street level officer pretty much using old fashioned policing techniques and technology like latent fingerprints along with traditional police work and investigations all prior to DNA, in car video, body cams, high tech video, etc, and ended my career with significant advances in technology like those just mentioned and many others. The advent of DNA technology initially used for homicide investigations where we would send off to the FBI lab, then our own crime lab, and now actually used on a variety of crimes including burglaries! DNA technology to solve certain burglaries, who would’ve thunk that?

I retired over 8 years ago and do not keep my finger on the pulse of cutting edge LE technology but the advancements I know of since my retirement are truly astonishing to me.

Back to gun safes. I think most will be well served by any decent gun safe and if one uses some common sense, it’s unlikely you’ll need to worry about your guns being stolen, I think fire and flooding would be a greater concern.

I personally like Browning which I presently have, it’s a 1000 lb manual dial combo. I like Liberty too, I previously had a Fatboy Jr with electronic keypad. I will admit, when the battery to the electronic keypad died, I kinda held my breath while replacing it, wondering what if it doesn’t work? All was fine though and a phone call to Liberty would normally resolve any issues if you had any.

 

[Twraska]

How many burglaries and / or theft of property cases have you worked?

You can spout theory and supposition all day long.. your theory and supposition simply isn’t supported by fact however…

Once again, nowhere has it been said don’t own a safe..

What has been said repeatedly is that for the typical middle income family the need for a pro grade safe for the purpose of security is statistically unnecessary… a common/typical/pedestrian safe more than accomplishes the mission of mitigating or negating the prevalent threats…

We aren’t talking about a locker… non pro grade would be liberty, canon, and the like (as mentioned in prior posts)..

Your $50k gun argument is a red herring… the typical middle income family doesn’t own any $50k firearms.. the overwhelming majority won’t own $50k in total value in all of their firearms..

There are plenty of reasons to own a litany of different safety and security devices.. and obviously there are exceptions to every rule… one of those exceptions might be you just want to own a $20k safe…

You are far better off however developing security plans and protocols and acquiring and using security tools and devices based on actual threats…

Professional thieves are not a common threat to middle income families… $50k in hypothetical firearms isn’t enough to get a pro to remotely consider you as a target (understand there is a difference between a pro and a simple career criminal),,,

And amateurs do not typically have the tools, knowledge, skills, or abilities to get into even the most common of safes…

And your typical smash and grab thief not only doesn’t have the knowledge, skills, or abilities… he also doesn’t have the time available..

The set up ruses nonsense in the context it’s been presented is exactly that.. nonsense.. (and I’m actually a very big fan of ruses.. I’ve used fake cameras, oversized dog bowls, and a host of other tricks over the years for a variety of purposes)…

Don’t want to trust a guy that worked the streets for a decade, was assigned to a street crimes unit and a gang unit at different times that handled lots of burglary cases and theft of property cases…that’s done PVSA (personal vulnerability security assessments) for a couple of dozen high net worth and/or high profile people, and run CARVER-SHOCK (targeting analysis on physical structures) a couple of hundred times... cool… do your own thing…

Maybe ask @Goopy … he spent close to three decades, most of that in leadership roles in detective/investigative units his thoughts on the matter… I think he’s done quite a bit of insurance investigation work on the private side as well..

I believe there are a number of others here that also worked investigations at major agencies as well… perhaps one of them will chime in..

I agree with you on this except the statement about common criminals not having tools. The advent of a grinder with the new cutoff wheels (thin grinder blades) will slice through 1/8” steel pretty quickly and a battery operated grinder with a cutoff wheel will take out locks and the bolt cutter shield commonly used in seconds.

 

[HankBuck]

This level of investigation probably varies from area to area.

Growing up in Dallas in a middle class neighborhood we had our garage burgled three times and radio stolen out of a car in the driveway one night. Stuff like a lawnmower and tools mostly. Value was $500-$1300 or so in late 1980s dollars.

Each time DPD told us they would give us a police report if we wanted it for insurance, but wouldn’t do more than that. They never even sent someone to see the garage door that was forced with a crowbar.

Strangest thing that was stolen was a full size punching bag that was hanging in the garage. They could have taken it down in a few minutes but cut the chain with a bolt cutter. Always wondered why they wanted that.

@Russ16 - my company was Nationwide and later in Canada & Europe … in large Cities Police cooperation on small dollar problems was usually minimal - they were overwhelmed with bigger issues: Drugs & violent crimes etc.. We handled most issues with InHouse Security or contract guard agencies and some areas we paid Off Duty Police. While hiring Off Duty Police was the most expensive - it got the best results by far, they could handle any problem that came up and when an off duty Cop calls a Precint for back up—-they Get It fast. We also received some preferential treatment because we temporarily employed many officers making extra money in our company and we developed great contacts in the Police Department. At Christmas I could have Deli lunch be sent to an entire Precinct and they appreciated that, some years I sent a “Basket of Cheer” to several Precincts - some accepted it and others immediately Sent-it-Back concerned it could appear a bribe and get them in trouble ——so we stopped doing that. In short - we could Not have operated a profitable & safe business in Manhattan without cooperation from NYPD in the 1980s-early 90s.

 

[HankBuck]

I agree with Mr. West. Having spent a 25 year career in law enforcement policing a population of several million working a variety of assignments, I can recall of exactly one residential burglary where a gun safe was cut open by professionals and several commercial businesses that had a safes cut open with cutting tools ( no guns, cash only).

@HankBuck stating NYPD and any other department not solving one burglary? Well, um that’s simply incorrect but I see he clarified that. Now, what I will say is most every agency has limited resources and investigative personnel to assign an open burglary case and their caseload will be prioritized accordingly. For us, depending open the amount or value will dictate what resources will be expended, unfortunately that’s the reality.

What’s really amazing is I started my career as a street level officer pretty much using old fashioned policing techniques and technology like latent fingerprints along with traditional police work and investigations all prior to DNA, in car video, body cams, high tech video, etc, and ended my career with significant advances in technology like those just mentioned and many others. The advent of DNA technology initially used for homicide investigations where we would send off to the FBI lab, then our own crime lab, and now actually used on a variety of crimes including burglaries! DNA technology to solve certain burglaries, who would’ve thunk that?

I retired over 8 years ago and do not keep my finger on the pulse of cutting edge LE technology but the advancements I know of since my retirement are truly astonishing to me.

Back to gun safes. I think most will be well served by any decent gun safe and if one uses some common sense, it’s unlikely you’ll need to worry about your guns being stolen, I think fire and flooding would be a greater concern.

I personally like Browning which I presently have, it’s a 1000 lb manual dial combo. I like Liberty too, I previously had a Fatboy Jr with electronic keypad. I will admit, when the battery to the electronic keypad died, I kinda held my breath while replacing it, wondering what if it doesn’t work? All was fine though and a phone call to Liberty would normally resolve any issues if you had any.

@BJH65 - I should have clarified my “Burglary” experience with Police more clearly and in better context - they had better things to do and I am glad their attention was Not wasted on my company’s occasional burglary. NYPD was there for us when it mattered most.

 

[mdwest]

I agree with you on this except the statement about common criminals not having tools. The advent of a grinder with the new cutoff wheels (thin grinder blades) will slice through 1/8” steel pretty quickly and a battery operated grinder with a cutoff wheel will take out locks and the bolt cutter shield commonly used in seconds.

It’s not that they don’t have access to tools…

It’s that they generally don’t carry them..

And.. as stated many times already… the guys that do pre plan, scope out, and prepare for burglaries do not regularly target typical middle income neighborhoods..

Again, it’s not that people should not have plans or prepare security for their valuables..

Generally speaking the best security plans involve layers and concentric rings.. no one single tool or item is a solution..

What has been said is that statistically the need for a pro grade safe for the typical middle income American family isn’t there…

The mitigation tool and technique doesn’t match the common threat.. and if money isn’t an object (not typically the case for a middle income family), then there are much better ways to spend that money to mitigate the threat…

If a guy making $110k a year living in the suburbs in a 3000 sq foot house in a subdivision of similar homes wants to spend 15% of his gross annual income on a safe, by all means, do so… that’s the beautiful thing about this country, you can spend your money pretty much any way you like..

That said, if the intent to thwart the most common and prevalent security threat to your firearms (we aren’t talking about fires and other threats), a $2000 canon or liberty or Winchester will accomplish the same task…

If you’re really worried about thieves that would purposefully target your home, case it out, come prepared with tools, etc.. you’re far better served investing in reinforced external doors, break resistant glass in your windows, high grade locks like medeco (and their primary competitors), high grade alarm systems, quality camera/surveillance equipment, etc..

That’s the sort of defense you’ll find in high net worth family homes..

Which by the way, all combined, won’t cost you as much as many pro grade safes…

Again.. this is not advocating against pro grade safes…

It’s simply putting the fact out there that the additional cost associated WAY outweighs the benefit (from a theft perspective) for the overwhelming majority of middle income Americans..