Gun safe recommendation

Found this interesting-
@SStomcat - you could tell from the video and the ease of pushing it over AND “Tin-Can sound” it made when it hit the floor - thats a CRAP Safe. A good example of why it is worth getting Quality and that means Thick Steel and weight over 1000-1500 lbs as a minimum. If you noticed at the very beginning of the video - the safes in the background were “Graffunder” - one of the better gun safes made - a True Safe, well over $10,000 and over 2000lb to 4000lbs BUT they are the “Holland & Holland” of gun safes.
 
Found this interesting-
Well, first it was not bolted down, Second I did not note multiple bolts on the side that decent safes have (picture 1). Finally the Pendleton safe models that I have are curved on the back, impossible to lay down (picture 1)..

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Anyone have a recommendation for a specific vault door, if one wanted to dedicate a small room/brick up a new wall?
 
Our ammo safes at the club are interesting. Made of very heavy steel plate with padlock. There is no external hasp, just the lock eye through a slot in the door. But the lock is covered with a heavy steel shield so it's impossible to use bolt cutters. To unlock is a pain in the butt but it's fairly secure.
 
@SStomcat - you could tell from the video and the ease of pushing it over AND “Tin-Can sound” it made when it hit the floor - thats a CRAP Safe. A good example of why it is worth getting Quality and that means Thick Steel and weight over 1000-1500 lbs as a minimum. If you noticed at the very beginning of the video - the safes in the background were “Graffunder” - one of the better gun safes made - a True Safe, well over $10,000 and over 2000lb to 4000lbs BUT they are the “Holland & Holland” of gun safes.
My thoughts as well. I know there is no way you could push my safe over that easily. Also it is up agains a wall and tipping it sideways would be much more difficult.

That one didn't look like it had locking bolts on all 4 sides, just 1.
 
Well, first it was not bolted down, Second I did not note multiple bolts on the side that decent safes have (picture 1). Finally the Pendleton safe models that I have are curved on the back, impossible to lay down (picture 1)..

View attachment 733656View attachment 733657
@Tanks - that “curved back” on the safe is interesting and I wonder how they manufacture that? If they use a thin sheet metal (1/8” or less) maybe they can bend it around a form to achieve that> vs. the straight edged plate steel used for most safes that has 90 degree angles on the corners and is often welded together… Some might be “bent” at 90 degree angles which would stress & weaken the steel at those corners. It would seem difficult to handle a big safe with a round back and I wouldn’t want to try to get that on a motorized safe hand truck and move it up a flight of stairs - that what Professional Safe Movers get paid for
 
It would seem difficult to handle a big safe with a round back and I wouldn’t want to try to get that on a motorized safe hand truck and move it up a flight of stairs - that what Professional Safe Movers get paid for
The safes got shipped to the safe movers/installers and then they came over and installed them. I would not trust the upper floors on most houses. When I was getting my overseas condo built, I had them put a reinforced floor where my safe was going to go as I did not want it to meet my neighbor down on 20th floor.
 
The safes got shipped to the safe movers/installers and then they came over and installed them. I would not trust the upper floors on most houses. When I was getting my overseas condo built, I had them put a reinforced floor where my safe was going to go as I did not want it to meet my neighbor down on 20th floor.
@Tanks - You made a well planned out and smart move when getting your Condo built to “reinforce the floor” where you knew your Safe was going…
 
Sounds like what I'd want... recommendations how to find a used model?

@Tanks - that “curved back” on the safe is interesting and I wonder how they manufacture that? If they use a thin sheet metal (1/8” or less) maybe they can bend it around a form to achieve that> vs. the straight edged plate steel used for most safes that has 90 degree angles on the corners and is often welded together… Some might be “bent” at 90 degree angles which would stress & weaken the steel at those corners. It would seem difficult to handle a big safe with a round back and I wouldn’t want to try to get that on a motorized safe hand truck and move it up a flight of stairs - that what Professional Safe Movers get paid for
Steel can be rolled if you have a large enough machine or a skilled person can do it with an Oxy/acetylene torch by heat shrinking
Gumpy
 
@SStomcat - I don’t own this brand or model and if this meets your wants & needs there is nothing wrong with it (many firearm owners have NO Safe so you’re already better protected then they are).
Reading some of the specs what I like is:
1). The door “seal” seems better than average (duel seal/Palosul) and similar to those found on higher end safes. The fire insulation is common (basically sheet rock) and it’s effective in a fire Only if it remains attached to the safe walls. I’m not sure if this Sheetrock insulation is “sandwiched” in between the outer steel wall and an inner steel wall (best way to insure it doesn’t fail in a fire) - but does not appear to be.
2). Paint is a basic flat gray so NO Money wasted on fancy paint (like the nice shiny “automotive grade” paint used some more expensive safes). Paint adds Nothing to security.
What I find less desirable is the lock (key pad) is Not made by S&G which is an industry standard, this safe’s keypad is made by AMSEC and while that keeps costs down it is Not as proven reliable. I also don’t care for the thin steel used (Safe only weighs 600 lbs) and much of that weight is the fire insulation (sheet rock). The steel on sides is thin (11 gauge) but even that is thicker then some cheap safes that use (12 to 14 ga). The door has 1/4” steel plate on exterior which is OK - but not sure if there is steel on interior of the door too? (Which would be helpful. The thickness of the doors “Bolts” are meaningless Unless the door frame is strong enough to NOT BE BENT during a “pry” type attack.
Overall it seems fairly standard for a $2000 safe. If you can find a USED safe for sale somewhere - $2000 to $3000 could get a much better safe. You can then pay another $500-800 for a professional safe move. As many others have pointed out - the likely hood of your safe getting broken into is low and a fire also Low therefore your safe will keep kids away and deter the majority of burglars that are unprepared or less determined to bust open your safe —- they’ll likely just take other stuff thats easier to grab, carry, and get away with.
The quality of a Safe is similar to the quality of a Gun - you can kill an Bear/Elk with a $500 rifle or a $50,000 rifle…both will usually accomplish what you intend them to do.
 
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My experience in London, some 25 years ago:

I was stripping the house back, replumbing, rewiring, and redecorating at the time. I measured up the space under the stairs and selected a proper safe to fit that space. I chose a refurbished Chubb Banker's Treasury safe from a dealer in second hand safes who was advertising on eBay.

That is the first bit of advice: if you can, build - or at least redecorate - around the safe. The safe goes in first.

It was put on a newly laid concrete pad. The safe weighs 2 1/2tons. It took a crane and 8 operatives to manoeuvre it into position, and they took a morning to do it. I had to take out a window for the safe to be swung into the house.

I forget the price, but I do remember thinking that it was reasonable enough. It was a second hand safe, which saved at least half, and the dealer installed it. Depending on your own circumstances, you will probably find that this route is cheaper than it might appear.

When the policeman came to look at it (it is a requirement in the UK that the police check your security arrangements) his first question was, 'Is it bolted to the floor?' (He was working from a check-list.) I told him that if he could pick it up and take it away, he was welcome to have whatever was inside. It was (and is) in my basement, so he would have to climb a flight of stairs to do so.

If you have guns stolen in the UK, you will never get permission to own firearms again. Some of the gun cabinets on sale are stupidly flimsy and obviously not up to angle grinders. My father used an old Chubb fireproof security cabinet that he took from his office, and that remains more secure than a new cabinet. My safe will be there until the end of time, and in addition to my guns it holds the wife's jewellery, legal papers (our wills), and some silver that I have bought. Safes are on a 'build it and they will come' basis: you will be surprised at how quickly they get filled up: buy the biggest one that you have space for.

If you follow my route, it is worth doing some research on safes. Oddly enough, the older models - from the '60s and '70s - are better built than the modern stuff, which is built down to a price. Weight is good enough proxy for security. In the UK insurers rate safes, which is also helpful. A good safe will be made of layers of different materials, to defeat angle grinders, drilling, oxy-acetylene torches, and so on: even so, a safe only buys time; a determined thief will get in, you just want to make it as difficult as possible.

One final thought: the best tool to get into a safe is a pair of garden secateurs. Your villain will tie you up and start threatening to lop off fingers and toes unless you open the safe for him. You defeat that with a time lock and - if you have a digital keypad - a silent alarm code which can be used to summon assistance (and that relies on having a monitored telephone line that will alert the telephone company if it is cut). But I'm a bit paranoid about keeping what is mine!
 
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My experience in London, some 25 years ago:

I was stripping the house back, replumbing, rewiring, and redecorating at the time. I measured up the space under the stairs and selected a proper safe to fit that space. I chose a refurbished Chubb Banker's Treasury safe from a dealer in second hand safes who was advertising on eBay.

That is the first but of advice: if you can, build - or at least redecorate - around the safe. The safe goes in first.

It was put on a newly laid concrete pad. The safe weighs 2 1/2tons. It took a crane and 8 operatives to manoeuvre it into position, and they took a morning to do it. I had to take out a window for the safe to be swung into the house.

When the policeman came to look at it (it is a requirement in the UK that the police check your security arrangements) his first question was, 'Is it bolted to the floor?' (He was working from a check-list.) I told him that if he could pick it up and take it away, he was welcome to have whatever was inside. It was (and is) in my basement, so he would have to climb a flight of stairs to do so.

If you have guns stolen in the UK, you will never get permission to own firearms again. Some of the gun cabinets on sale are stupidly flimsy and obviously not up to angle grinders. My father used an old Chubb fireproof security cabinet that he took from his office, and that remains more secure than a new cabinet. My safe will be there until the end of time, and in addition to my guns it holds the wife's jewellery, legal papers (our wills), and some silver that I have bought. Safes are on a 'build it and they will come' basis: you will be surprised at how quickly they get filled up: buy the biggest one that you have space for.

If you follow my route, it is worth doing some research on safes. Oddly enough, the older models - from the '60s and '70s - are better built than the modern stuff, which is built down to a price. Weight is good enough proxy for security. In the UK insurers rate safes, which is also helpful. A good safe will be made of layers of different materials, to defeat angle grinders, drilling, oxy-acetylene torches, and so on: even so, a safe only buys time; a determined thief will get in, you just want to make it as difficult as possible.

One final thought: the best tool to get into a safe is a pair of garden secateurs. Your villain will tie you up and and start threatening to lop off fingers and toes unless you open the safe for him. You defeat that with a time lock and - if you have a digital keypad - a silent alarm code which can be used to summon assistance (and that relies on having a monitored telephone line that will alert the telephone company if it is cut). But I'm a bit paranoid about keeping what is mine!
@Major Bonkers - YOU Sir have one of the best Safes I’ve ever heard of and I “Envy” the quality you purchased —- what did you par for the safe and how much did the installation cost? It’s worth it regardless !! I doubt even an experienced & skilled Jewel Thief is getting into your safe - sounds like that Chubb is in the Top 1% of secure safes….it’s likely better then the one at my Bank!
 
AMSEC all day long. Buy once, cry once. Buy local.
 
Thank you Mr. HankBuck!

I have edited my post to answer your question - I honestly can't remember the price, but it must have come in at around £5,000 or so - say £15,000/ $20,000 today. I did appreciate that I was buying something for the long haul, so I did not mind spending more than I would usually. As I have got older, of course, and given that our socialist overlords restrict the number of firearms that we can own, I have gradually improved the quality of my firearms.

I take the view that all houses ought to have a safe of some description (after all, you have one in your hotel room), even if it is just for jewellery, passports, and legal papers. When I go to the happy hunting ground, my safe will still be there, out the way, under the stairs, and who knows what will be put in it: it will remain a useful feature of the house.

I work in insurance, which has probably contributed to my paranoia!
 
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I would recommend buying the best quality safe(s) with at least double the capacity you think you will ever need.

All of the manufacturers claim to have at least twice the capacity that they actually have, unless you just like to have your guns all dinged up.




I also agree with buying local!
 
I’m not sure I quite get the argument. A middle-income guy can be single, a gun enthusiast, and buy firearms either as a passion or as a trade. Over a relatively short period, he could easily accumulate a sizable investment.

But because he’s “middle class,” he shouldn’t secure that investment in a safe? Or should he just live with the assumption that burglars somehow skip over middle-class homes?
Re-read the post. You clearly didn’t understand it (or perhaps missed something in it)..

Pros that carry the type of tools necessary to defeat even basic safes like a liberty do not target middle income homes, whether there is a firearms collection or not..

Amateurs don’t carry the tools or have the skills necessary to get into even a basic safe..

That doesn’t mean you don’t buy a safe…

Housekeepers, friends of your kids, shithead family members, etc are far more likely to steal from you than a crackhead or a professional burglar..

It simply means being worried about having a pro grade safe (as opposed to a safe you can buy at academy, bass pro, etc).. or adding in ruse items, etc in the interest of security is statistically unnecessary…

A basic safe will keep out the housekeeper, shithead, friend of the kid, etc… (who are far more likely to try to make off with your Rolex than your Rigby by the way )…
 
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Re-read the post. You clearly didn’t understand it (or perhaps missed something in it)..

Pros that carry the type of tools necessary to defeat even basic safes like a liberty do not target middle income homes, whether there is a firearms collection or not..

Amateurs don’t carry the tools or have the skills necessary to get into even a basic safe..

That doesn’t mean you don’t buy a safe…

Housekeepers, friends of your kids, shithead family members, etc are far more likely to steal from you than a crackhead or a professional burglar..

It simply means being worried about having a pro grade safe (as opposed to a safe you can buy at academy, bass pro, etc).. or adding in ruse items, etc in the interest of security is statistically unnecessary…

A basic safe will keep out the housekeeper, shithead, friend of the kid, etc… (who are far more likely to try to make off with your Rolex than your Rigby by the way )…
You are correct about family drug addicts. I lived in a nice wing of a ladies home while at university. Her grand nephew, on a golf scholarship, from an upstanding family was also a druggie and made off with my Weatherby Mk 12 auto .22--my pride and joy at the time. (as well as her silver and some jewelry) Sad.

Also watch for certain persons who attend your parties, or just drop in claiming to be a friend of the family, friend of the mother, etc. I was helping with a neighborhood fish fry when a gentleman asked to use my neighbor's restroom. He said, "No, because the last time you did, I was missing some things later. Turn around and go elsewhere--you are not coming in my house again!" The man almost tried to be obstinate about it.
AH members at YOUR party, excepted, I hope....
 
Re-read the post. You clearly didn’t understand it (or perhaps missed something in it)..

Pros that carry the type of tools necessary to defeat even basic safes like a liberty do not target middle income homes, whether there is a firearms collection or not..

Amateurs don’t carry the tools or have the skills necessary to get into even a basic safe..

That doesn’t mean you don’t buy a safe…

Housekeepers, friends of your kids, shithead family members, etc are far more likely to steal from you than a crackhead or a professional burglar..

It simply means being worried about having a pro grade safe (as opposed to a safe you can buy at academy, bass pro, etc).. or adding in ruse items, etc in the interest of security is statistically unnecessary…

A basic safe will keep out the housekeeper, shithead, friend of the kid, etc… (who are far more likely to try to make off with your Rolex than your Rigby by the way )…
@mdwest I read the post/reply from @SStomcat - maybe it’s not that your point was lost but Not agreed with and I also have a different take especially with your comment that (paraphrasing: a prograde safe vs one bought at Academy Sports is “statistically unnecessary”) —- and I agree with some of your thinking but by that logic owning ANY Safe is “Statistically Unnecessary” because the vast majority of homes will Never experience a Burglary or a severe fire.
Some people “hide” valuables and that can be more effective (if well hidden) than placing items in a Cheap Safe. Someone/a thief sees a Safe and correctly assumes “something valuable is in there” then decide “can I open it? No special tools are needed to open a cheap safe and many homes already contain the ax, hammer, crow bar etc.. that can be used. If the safe is in a Garage or basement — the “tools” might be conspicuously near the safe….even a Crack-head can figure out somethings.
Every step a firearms owner takes to secure their firearm is ‘progressive’, from not leaving it out on your front porch, to inside your house, in a closet, locked in a cabinet-Safe-walk in Vault Etc. Every progressive step reduces risk. I agree a cheap safe is better then none and a Good safe is Better-then-cheap safe. Cost will always drive decisions and people will also weigh their own risk tolerance, also can your home “accommodate” a 1500lb to 4000 lb safe in the area you want it? While the phrase “anything can be broken into” is true - the odds get lower and lower the Higher the quality of your safe gets. Many on AH enjoy buying very high quality firearms and while a $50,000 gun is “Not needed” it is enjoyed and has some qualities lower end guns may Not but regardless of cost—they all meet the “basic” purpose they were designed for. Also, for some people their possessions have a value not measured only in $$ dollars so having them stolen is Not rectified just by getting a check from their insurance company. I don’t own a $100,000+ safe or Bank Vault quality walk-in….But I would certainly enjoy it if I did
 
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