Gun safe recommendation

[HankBuck]

Serious recommendation here...

NEVER buy a gun safe the size that you currently need.. always buy bigger than you think you will ever need..

also.. understand that whatever a gun safe advertises its capacity as.. cut that number by at least 1/3... depending on what type of guns you have, whether or not they have optics on them, etc.. you might need to cut that number by 1/2..

I have a 48 gun liberty "fat boy".. If I get really aggressive and play magical levels of tetris in there I can get MAYBE 32 long guns in the safe...

When I bought it I thought "I'll never fill this thing".. but I caught it on a great sale (on 50% off clearance when Gander Mountain was going out of business)... so I bought it..

Now the safe is full.. I have a 8 gun cabinet that is full.. and there are another dozen or so firearms scattered all around the house (hidden in coffee tables, bed side tables, in closets, in desk drawers, in the bed footboard, etc..etc.. and Im considering buying another 48 gun safe so that I can consolidate the collection...

@mdwest - AGREE. Also, if you buy “Used” you can often find great deals, good safes (especially some common to lower end safes: Liberty, Browning, Champion etc…. They never wear out Unless damaged while moving etc.. If you’re patient and search Craigslist for a month or two (and willing to drive a bit) or pay a safe moving company to pick up and deliver to you ($500-$1000) it’s well worth it if you’re buying a $5000 safe for $2000.

 

[HankBuck]

I want to say we paid about $5K for the first one and it came with lights, dual locks and a dehumidifier. 10 years later the price had gone up a whole bunch, but I can't recall the exact price. Both are Fort Knox Executive Series that are 66" tall, 30" deep and 36" wide.

Bought the black one first, then special ordered the green one with a left-sided hinge so they can sit next to each other with both doors open and no restrictions. Her's is the black one and I got the new one. Several upgrades on the newer model.
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Years later I had to reorganize the interior of mine because the layout of the long guns wasn't to my liking. After drawing up plans I spent an afternoon at my friends house making an insert to accommodate the number of long guns I wanted without them banging into each other. It only takes up half the safe, but the center cut makes getting items from the back much easier. I plan on covering it with some leather from a previous safari that I have laying around but haven't gotten around to it.
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@BeeMaa - nice Safes, Fort Knox has a nice combination of using enough steel and functional interiors plus are nice looking…..AND “good workmanship” on YOUR part to improve ease of access to your guns. Question: why do you have so much “Tupperware” in the safe? (Did those prices also increase !!)

 

[VertigoBE]

Serious recommendation here...

NEVER buy a gun safe the size that you currently need.. always buy bigger than you think you will ever need..

also.. understand that whatever a gun safe advertises its capacity as.. cut that number by at least 1/3... depending on what type of guns you have, whether or not they have optics on them, etc.. you might need to cut that number by 1/2..

I have a 48 gun liberty "fat boy".. If I get really aggressive and play magical levels of tetris in there I can get MAYBE 32 long guns in the safe...

When I bought it I thought "I'll never fill this thing".. but I caught it on a great sale (on 50% off clearance when Gander Mountain was going out of business)... so I bought it..

Now the safe is full.. I have a 8 gun cabinet that is full.. and there are another dozen or so firearms scattered all around the house (hidden in coffee tables, bed side tables, in closets, in desk drawers, in the bed footboard, etc..etc.. and Im considering buying another 48 gun safe so that I can consolidate the collection...

No need to divulge further if you are not comfortable, but at those numbers, would it not make more sense to have a "walk-in safe". Basically a closet, unused room, ideally without windows, where you replace the interior door with an armoured door?

 

[HankBuck]

I know Ft. Knox gets a lot of love, but the are still Residential Security Containers and not Safes. For a Safe see my post number 18.

@wesheltonj - you are technically correct and I did some research on that. Many Fort Knox Safes do meet the requirements for a TL “B” rated safe - 1/4” steel plate sides (or thicker) and 1/2” steel plate in door (or thicker). There is a process and cost to obtain that rating and I believe other requirements that Fort Knox has chosen NOT to go thru. I would think for what they charge they would go thru the “process” and don’t understand why they haven’t?? When I asked this question to them years ago I was told they were considering it on some models but as far as I know - hasn’t happened. Still, you can have your Fort Knox safe “custom built” by them and they will add a lot of steel - including AR 500 1/4” to 1/2” and some of their safes will weigh over 3000lbs - with stainless steel liner (difficult to acetylene torch) or the AR 500 steel (difficult to Drill). There are better “real safes” but you pay for that and any safe over 1000-1500lbs might require being on a concrete slab floor….limiting where you can place it.

 

[HankBuck]

No need to divulge further if you are not comfortable, but at those numbers, would it not make more sense to have a "walk-in safe". Basically a closet, unused room, ideally without windows, where you replace the interior door with an armoured door?

@VertigoBE - I think Walk-in are great But without thick concrete wall & ceiling it’s just a closet with a steel door (you can Smash thru the walls)

 

[mdwest]

No need to divulge further if you are not comfortable, but at those numbers, would it not make more sense to have a "walk-in safe". Basically a closet, unused room, ideally without windows, where you replace the interior door with an armoured door?

The home we live in currently, when we purchased it we knew we would only live in it for 7-10 years. We only intend on staying in the city until the last kid graduates from university. At that point we will start transitioning toward retirement and will move to a more rural location on a reasonably good size piece of land.

Because we know we are going to sell the house we didn’t want to alter it in any permanent way that might not be attractive to prospective buyers, and didn’t want to invest large amounts into the house that we might not recover.

When we move (now likely just 2-3 years away) we will almost certainly build a vault in the house. It’s our intent to buy raw land and have a new home built to our specifications..

Honestly I’d like a vault as much to secure other valuables as I want to secure the firearms.

 

[VertigoBE]

@VertigoBE - I think Walk-in are great But without thick concrete wall & ceiling it’s just a closet with a steel door (you can Smash thru the walls)

You are right, I always forget this, that in the US most houses are built from wood and plaster. Here in Belgium, houses are almost always built with concrete floors and ceilings, and brick walls (even for inside walls).

 

[wesheltonj]

You are right, I always forget this, that in the US most houses are built from wood and plaster. Here in Belgium, houses are almost always built with concrete floors and ceilings, and brick walls (even for inside walls).

It's a trade off. Your houses are built to stand forever. However, you are limited as to what can be in the walls when they are blocks. In the USA we build stick houses and can have tons of crap behind the walls. Unfortunately, most don't hold up very well.

 

[steve white]

@VertigoBE - I think Walk-in are great But without thick concrete wall & ceiling it’s just a closet with a steel door (you can Smash thru the walls)

There are other ways to Harden entry, like installing lines of rebar in between the studs so that a chainsaw cannot be used. Ultimately it slows entry to be honest. You could also brick up the inside walls.

Another factor people overlook on burglaries is rural in nature. If your neighbors don't know better, seeing a moving van in front of your house is no cause to call the police. If robbers have cased you well, they have ALL DAY to load up that moving van while you are at work eight hours plus commute time. I HAVE SEEN IT HAPPEN.

 

[steve white]

That supplemental insurance policy is sounding better and better.

 

[SStomcat]

My brother is a retired fire insurance investigator. He says the biggest joke on the market today is "fireproof" gun safes. He's seen scores of them that survived house fires ... but none with contents that survived. Just as well save the $$$ and put your guns in a hall closet with a lock on the door. For fire purposes anyway. For theft you're better off hiding the good guns at various locations in the home when you're away and leave some disposable decoy junkers in a well identified gun closet. Anything made by Mossberg or Harrington & Richardson will do decoy duty just fine. The burglars will take the decoy crap and stop looking for guns. Oh ... and don't forget to leave that old Winows 95 laptop on the computer desk when you go on holidays. And the power saw with worn out bearings ... leave that front and center on the workbench. The pawnbroker should get a good laugh when Mr Meth-head shows up with all that stuff. Junkie solves your junk problem. Less hassle than having a yard sale. Insurance buys you a new door/window and they'll be glad to pay replacement cost for more decoys.

For home invasion I suggest bear traps instead of a sawed off shotgun. Ever fired a shotgun with no ear protection inside a small room? "Uhh ... what planet am I on?" Cripple burglars rather than kill them. Give the bastard something to remember you by. He'll be screaming to get into handcuffs when the cops arrive.

Come here for more tips on protecting yourself and your property. Glad to help. No charge. This time.

What's the point of buying the gun safe then?

Could not agree more.

A distant neighbor had a 30 gun safe wheeled out of his house with a two wheel dolly during a smash and grab. They never attempted to open it at the house, once they figured out it wasn’t bolted down they just took the whole thing. He was out of town and watched the whole thing on camera.

I highly recommend building a cabinet around whatever you buy. Out of sight, out of mind is one of the best diversions.

Agreed

@SStomcat from your stated criteria (inexpensive, not big/bulky) you can’t get a “GOOD” safe but there are plenty that meet your requirement: Liberty has plenty that look-nice and Tractor Supply has plenty in the $1000 to $1500 range. Any of these safes can be opened with a small crow bar or a fire Ax but they will keep children out and the “quick burglar” which covers 90% of what is likely to be a concern. A “Good” safe - in my opinion - has thick steel plate (1/4” or thicker sides & 1/2” to 1” steel in the door) and that will bring the weight up to over 1000 lbs. to 2000 lbs.+. It’s also Fire Rated to an Hour+ at a stated temperature (1200- 1800 degrees) and this also adds weight. It will cost $4000 to $10,000+ and will require professional Safe movers….even it’s just wheeled into main level Garage.
Entry Level “Good” Safes start with higher end Fort Knox; American Security and some other manufacturers - these models are often still listed as “Residential Security Containers” but the better ones can meet the standards of a “B” burglary rating because of the thicker plate steel they use. Better “real” safes include Brown safes that may have 1” (or greater) solid steel plate and weigh 3000lbs-4000lbs+. There are many other brands and all are as heavy as your car and costly.
I admitt what I describe above is ‘over kill’ for many that only own a few guns and ANY Safe can be Broken-into (just requires planning, tools, Effort). I think those with $50,000 to $100,000+ in firearms should consider a “Good” Safe as part of the investment….they also last 100+ years and can later be sold or handed down. Just my opinion.

I have cameras and a security system in place. If the alarm is triggered, the police should respond, and the motion sensors will activate a loud siren when no one is home. That alone should deter criminals from getting in and out within 2–3 minutes. I do not think that is enough time to break in a safe, haul it off, or do more damage, but only if the cops come as expected. The siren should deter them anyways.

 

[mdwest]

There are other ways to Harden entry, like installing lines of rebar in between the studs so that a chainsaw cannot be used. Ultimately it slows entry to be honest. You could also brick up the inside walls.

Another factor people overlook on burglaries is rural in nature. If your neighbors don't know better, seeing a moving van in front of your house is no cause to call the police. If robbers have cased you well, they have ALL DAY to load up that moving van while you are at work eight hours plus commute time. I HAVE SEEN IT HAPPEN.

Ive actually done this myself (legally)...

A company I was a partner in many years ago had a very high profile (internationally known entertainer) client that was going through a very messy 6th divorce... the soon to be ex-wife literally took millions of dollars in "stuff" when she left.. everything from a couple of thousand 8x10 signed glossy photos, to cases of memorabilia from past tours, to numerous pieces of very expensive custom jewelry (that was the clients, not hers.. male type jewelry)..

she took all of this "stuff" to another home that was jointly owned by her and the soon to be ex-husband about a 3 hour drive from their primary home.. she changed out all the locks, had a very high end alarm system installed, etc..

this home wasnt where she was living... it was basically a 5,000 square foot storage facility.. she continued to live in the same city she had been living in, and just moved into a posh apartment across town..

Sooooo....

I hired a locksmith and an alarm technician and about a half dozen day laborers and rented a 26' box truck, picked up a notarized letter from the client stating that he wanted me to recover his possessions from his house and relocate his possessions to my offices for safe storage, consulted with the lawyer.. and then off we went to a rural house on about 20 acres on a lake in the middle of nowhere Mississippi...

It took about 20 minutes to gain entry without setting off the alarm.. and no more than 2 hours to completely fill the box truck.. and we were on our way back north..

It was well over a month before the soon to be ex even realized the stuff was gone...

the calls we got from the local sheriffs office after that were actually pretty comical lol..

 

[uplander01]

Currently have a Liberty, been all I need. Only thing I don't like is the velour peels back a little and there is exposed metal on teh sides which can bump guns, I covered with Gorilla tape. It wasn't a very expensive safe.

Good advice to buy bigger.

I personnaly think the nicest out there is AMSEC (American Security), used to sell them, but they cost a premium. Winchester or Champion are probably the most cost effective

 

[steve white]

What about hidden safe systems. One company advertises the "best safes, which no thief has ever been able to find."
When I was visiting the shops in Ferlach, Austria, an elderly maker had me sit down in the front room of his home. After I had seen some wares he brought up from the shop, AND he had decided I was OK, he stepped over to a section of the paneling in his wall and triggered it to open! He actually stored his very best pieces, hidden from sight, within four feet of his front door.
I would imagine that the best place I could put my best gun would be in my 3-gun aluminum travel case up in the attic, with it padlocked.

 

[Tanks]

Are there any safes that actually fit bolt action rifles with longer barrels (ex 22-26")?

Yes. The shotgun pictured is with a 32" barrel.

Pendleton safe, you can even order two with doors opening on opposite sides. The interior rotates as well.

Home | Pendleton Safes | Custom Gun Safes

Pendleton Safes are built for security to store your gun collection and valuables. Order your safe and stand today - proudly made in the USA.

www.pendletonsafes.com

 

[Rimbaud]

Highly recommend SecureIt for gun storage. I bought one about six months ago, and have found it to be perfect for storing rifles, pistols, and ammo. It is not a safe, per se, but I have a padlock on the door handle. The model that I selected is also sold to our military which to me means that the material can take a beating. One of the features that I particularly appreciate is the modularity of the system. You can adjust shelves in the unit, and add more units, as you need them.From what I can gather about most gun safes, they are really just theft deterrents, and many aren't even that much of a deterrent. SecureIt is not what I would call budget friendly, but it's probably better priced than most of what passes for gun safes.

 

[Firebird]

No matter the safe it behooves all of us to have some sort of insurance for our firearms and a record of serial numbers and values. Sometimes homeowners insurance covers them but I am not sure how that works.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

What's the point of buying the gun safe then?

Exactly the point of my post. There are other ways of protecting valuables. Most "fireproof" gunsafes provide minimal (if any) protection against fire or theft. Using decoys is actually a good way to protect against theft - unless the thief knows what's in your home. Sadly, many high value burglaries are committed by family and close friends who have intimate knowledge of what's in the house. So decoys probably won't work for them. They know what they're after and won't stop looking till they find it. This is one benefit of not having many friends.

My dad had his "Rollex" stolen from a motel room. He didn't even bother reporting it. The watch was a knockoff he bought in Mexico. Said he wished he could have seen the shithead's face when he tried to fence it. Before going on holidays it's definitely a good idea to leave costume jewelry where it can be easily found (e.g. jewelry case on top of the dresser) and hide the good stuff.

I'm not a gun collector so the idea of having fifty guns in my home is outer space alien to me. But for those who do get their jollies that way, I might suggest buying TWO gun safes: one for your house and one for another family member or trusted friend. Move all your guns to the remote location when you leave for safari, etc. Let the burglar cut into an empty safe, or throw in a couple of disposable decoys. The idea is to give burglars something to take of no real value so they stop looking for good stuff. You gotta think outside the box to beat these guys at their own game. Better plan than fighting with insurance companies for replacement.

Another tip for home security. It seems most places where I have lived garbage is picked up on Friday morning. If you leave for a long weekend, GET SOMEONE TO MOVE YOUR GARBAGE CANS BACK OFF THE CURB. Meth-heads here cruise the streets on the weekend looking for garbage cans still on the curb. "AH ha! That guy is gone for the weekend. Time to call the U-Haul agent!"

 

[JimP]

A bugler who shows up to a residence with a two wheel dolly and or a angle grinder likely has some inside information on what is inside of the home.

 

[SStomcat]

What about hidden safe systems. One company advertises the "best safes, which no thief has ever been able to find."
When I was visiting the shops in Ferlach, Austria, an elderly maker had me sit down in the front room of his home. After I had seen some wares he brought up from the shop, AND he had decided I was OK, he stepped over to a section of the paneling in his wall and triggered it to open! He actually stored his very best pieces, hidden from sight, within four feet of his front door.
I would imagine that the best place I could put my best gun would be in my 3-gun aluminum travel case up in the attic, with it padlocked.

Attic is an option except during extreme weather, like in summer here, not sure what effect it may have...