For the love of belts

[Pheroze]

My poor belted magnums get such a rough ride here. But, much of the negative comment is easily dealt with when handloading them properly. And for that effort you get a slick feeding, accurate cartridge that looks cool.

I think a comparison between the design of the 470 Capstick and the 465 H&H is instructive. When H&H set about building the 465 H&H they did not just neck up the 375 H&H case. They went to the Weatherby case. This allowed for a cartridge with a gentle but distinct shoulder. Same design we see with the 400 H&H, and consistent with the design concept of the 375 H&H. Whatever the original reason for this shoulder, today I find it very useful in several respects. The relatively narrow neck makes for easy feeding. But, more important to the hand loader, it allows you to headspace off of the shoulder.

I use the tools developed by Mr. Willis
http://www.larrywillis.com/, to resize the brass. Full length resizing after using the headspace gauge, and the collet every so often, has extended my brass life immeasurably. My 375 H&H is just sub MOA and I am still using the same brass I bought several years ago.

I believe the incorporation of the slight shoulder is a very important facet of the overall design and contributes to better handloading technique and better feeding.

Does the belt help with overall accuracy? Well, if the cartridge lines up properly as soon as its chambered, and yet is sized for minimum expansion, I have to believe it does do its part.

In closing, I say reload the belted cartridges in a way that makes the best use of all of their design features! And, I call for an international moratorium on slandering the belt!

 

[fourfive8]

Yes, Larry Willis' Innovative Technologies collet mag body sizer is the "bees knees" for the standard belted mags.

I never have had nor seen a feeding hiccup or headspace-caused failure to fire caused by the belt on any belted mag. But I have seen some failures to fire and really dysfunctional feed issues from many popular cartridges like the types with itty bitty shoulders that don't headspace well and several of the "modern" over bores with fat bodies with little taper. The 375 HH BELTED remains one of the slickest feeding and most reliable large cartridges ever designed. While I have seen the religiously praised 416 Rigby have all manner of ignition (poor head spacing control especially with careless reloads) and basic feeding issues in some rifles.

 

[Pheroze]

While I have seen the religiously praised 416 Rigby have all manner of ignition (poor head spacing control especially with careless reloads) and basic feeding issues in some rifles.

Yes, those cartridges that are as big as a donkey's .......well, let's just say they have considerable girth....also take up a heck of alot of magazine space!

 

[Hogpatrol]

Belted cartridges are so yesterday.

 

[Pheroze]

Belted cartridges are so yesterday.

Troll

 

[Ray B]

My preference in large capacity cases is the 404 which is smooth; but my go to rifle for big elk has been a 338 Win Mag. I'm unfamiliar with problems related to the belt. I handload with LE Wilson dies that are full length but differ from standard dies because a collet is used to size the neck rather than undersizing the neck then pulling a button through it to get the proper dimension. Headspace is done on the shoulder with no consideration given to the belt. So if I were buying a .338 today I'd consider one of the smooth cases, but since I've had the 338 for about 30 years I won't be trading it in any time soon.

 

[PaulT]

The problems with belted cartridges are, usually, the tools sitting at the bench re-loading for them, or secondly, the poorly manufactured and put-together rifles made for them.

Excluding those parameters there is absolutely nothing wrong with most belted cartridges.

 

[tarbe]

I just checked my records. Over the past 44 years I have loaded 4,757 rounds of various belted magnums, ranging from the .257 Weatherby to the .458 Winchester magnum.

I have never had an issue with case separation or feeding...and I have only used standard RCBS dies to load all those rounds.

I guess I am just lucky!

But having said all that...if I were going to build a "magnum" rifle today it would probably be more along the lines of a Dakota round (ie .404) vs the H&H belted case.

 

[Pheroze]

I just checked my records. Over the past 44 years I have loaded 4,757 rounds of various belted magnums, ranging from the .257 Weatherby to the .458 Winchester magnum.

I have never had an issue with case separation or feeding...and I have only used standard RCBS dies to load all those rounds.

That's actually very encouraging to hear! Interestingly, my 375 rarely requires the collet and resizes just fine. But, I use the collet for my 308 NM with each reload to push back a slight bulge by the belt. I am not sure why the difference.

But having said all that...if I were going to build a "magnum" rifle today it would probably be more along the lines of a Dakota round (ie .404) vs the H&H belted case.

I really prefer the tapered design and gentle shoulders of the H&H designs. I wish that 465 H&H was not so obscure because it is a sexy one Also, they tend to be slender cartridges, which is nice to carry and load into a magazine.

 

[PARA45]

I have several Weatherby magnums, and after firing in my guns, I normally neck size them, and then full size them at around the 3-4 firing. Up to date (knock on wood), I had no issues with my reloads. I've also been thinking about getting the Larry Willis' Innovative Technologies collet mag body sizer. I'm glad are using it @Pheroze, and from what I read on your post, it's a good tool and not just another gadget. Thank you!

 

[Ray B]

Since we're talking about Weatherby's; my dad had a 257 the cartridges for which I would reload. This would involve load development so I preferred to use brass of the same consistency of the brass as other cartridges that I loaded. At the time, Weatherby's were Norma cases while all the other cartridges that I loaded (except 6.5x54) were available in Winchester brass. So to reduce the variable I wanted to load Winchester brass for the Weatherby. The solution was to get 264 Win Mag Winchester brass, run through a sizing die, fire form the sides and shoulder and I had 257 Weatherby Winchester brass. I don't recall there ever being a problem related to the belt. I was able to monitor case head expansion for load development using Ken Waters' methods and since it was Winchester brass, the results were consistent with other cartridges. The rifle had been rebarrelled by CP Donnelly, had minimum chamber specs, the leade was modified to reduce blowby and it was 28". Checking my records I show I could get standard casehead expansion and several reloads per case while getting a consistent velocity of 3400 fps with 120 gr bullets. I had worked it up to 3600 but I couldn't believe that it didn't involve potential of pressure spikes into unsafe territory. But it was a fun rifle to shoot even if it did have a dreaded belt.