Factory .416 Taylor Rifles

[CoElkHunter]

What would you pay for a factory Ruger Hawkeye African (or Alaskan, Guide Gun) or Winchester M70 Safari chambered in the .416 Taylor cartridge? In the early '70s, Bill Ruger and Winchester built prototype rifles for that cartridge and then Winchester dropped the ball on manufacturing factory ammo for them. Only custom rifles have ever been available for that cartridge. Just trying to gauge any interest and as a matter of conversation.

 

[MontanaGrant]

I think it's a good round. My dad has a .416 Taylor in a Ruger M77. Great gun.

That said, while I myself do reload I don't think it would do well without factory ammo support. The .416 Ruger will take the cheap and easy short action guys, while the Remington and Rigby are well established already.

 

[CoElkHunter]

I think it's a good round. My dad has a .416 Taylor in a Ruger M77. Great gun.

That said, while I myself do reload I don't think it would do well without factory ammo support. The .416 Ruger will take the cheap and easy short action guys, while the Remington and Rigby are well established already.

Maybe Hornady could be convinced to produce factory ammo?

 

[318AE]

I like the 416 Rigby, but that is mostly for nostalgia reasons. I believe the 416 Remington is the same length as the 375 H&H and Lott. Perhaps the 416 Taylor is another way to solve the “too much bore for case” perception with the 458 Win Mag, vs extending to the length of the Lott.

Frankly, I never understood why Winchester made the 458 Win Mag shorter than the 375 H&H, given they had a 375 H&H length action. I have a kurz action Mauser in 6.5mm I really like, but don’t really care for short action, big bore magnums. I prefer the magnum mauser action for big bores.

For me, the 416 Taylor would be pretty far down the list, likely after 416 Rigby 416 Remington, 404 Jeffery, 425 WR, 400 H&H etc.

 

[ldmay375]

What would you pay for a factory Ruger Hawkeye African (or Alaskan, Guide Gun) or Winchester M70 Safari chambered in the .416 Taylor cartridge? In the early '70s, Bill Ruger and Winchester built prototype rifles for that cartridge and then Winchester dropped the ball on manufacturing factory ammo for them. Only custom rifles have ever been available for that cartridge. Just trying to gauge any interest and as a matter of conversation.

I would pay equal to what the same rifle in a 338 Winchester would sell for. Prior to the 416 Remington chambering the Winchester M70, I had some interest in the 416 Taylor. The 416 Remington pretty much killed that interest. The 416 Ruger definitely did.

It is certainly a good cartridge. But, has some pretty stiff competition.

 

[Ridge Runner]

For off the shelf availability (if that can be a factor nowadays), I would personally go with the 416 Rigby. Especially if I could use another cartridge with it, like using the 458WM in a 458 Lott, should I not be able to obtain 416 Rigby ammo while on a hunt.

The 416 Rigby for nostalgia.

 

[Altitude sickness]

I love my 21” barrel. shorter action .416 Taylor
Nice short overall length rifle. Very accurate

 

[DieJager]

I think Norma makes still factory ammo but only solids. Also Schultz and Larsen still makes factory rifles in this caliber.

 

[Altitude sickness]

I think Hendershot will load this caliber also

 

[buckstix]

Here is my 416 Taylor. I also once had one of the Winchester prototypes. I love this cartridge.

 

[CoElkHunter]

I love my 21” barrel. shorter action .416 Taylor
Nice short overall length rifle. Very accurate

I have a semi custom Interarms Whitworth .416 Taylor with a 23” barrel. Mine is very accurate too and the felt recoil is noticeably milder than my heavier CZ .416 Rigby with a similar load.

 

[CoElkHunter]

Here is my 416 Taylor. I also once had one of the Winchester prototypes. I love this cartridge.

That wood is stunning! Almost looks 3D?

 

[Northern Shooter]

It's hard to see a case for it today given we already have options at Standard, Magnum and Magnum+ lengths.

Ruger is already offering their M77 line in 416 Ruger so I can't see them offering the Taylor, unless the 416 Ruger was completely phased out of production.

 

[CoElkHunter]

I would pay equal to what the same rifle in a 338 Winchester would sell for. Prior to the 416 Remington chambering the Winchester M70, I had some interest in the 416 Taylor. The 416 Remington pretty much killed that interest. The 416 Ruger definitely did.

It is certainly a good cartridge. But, has some pretty stiff competition.

I think the .416 Taylor had a few years in the early ‘70s to become a mainstream DG cartridge when the .416 Rigby rifles and ammo were MIA and no other .416 was readily available. But, Winchester failed to produce ammo for it. If Ruger/Winchester were to make a run of them I would be interested for a reasonable price.

 

[Altitude sickness]

 

[CoElkHunter]

It's hard to see a case for it today given we already have options at Standard, Magnum and Magnum+ lengths.

Ruger is already offering their M77 line in 416 Ruger so I can't see them offering the Taylor, unless the 416 Ruger was completely phased out of production.

I agree. But Ruger and Winchester HAVE made some runs in the past of some very obscure cartridges so I guess it could happen if there was enough interest. Hornady would probably have to jump in with producing factory ammo though.

 

[CoElkHunter]

View attachment 605206

Very nice!

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

The .416 Taylor is a necked down .458 Winchester. Just run .458 Win brass through a .416 Taylor full length sizing die and one has a .416 Taylor case, minus the correct headstamp for the cartridge.

The .416 Ruger was a good idea of a cartridge for standard length (.30-06 size) actions, without the belt. The case is from the .375 Ruger which to my limited knowledge is not formed from an older cartridge. Who cares? Anyone trying to find brass for loading their own ammo, or trying to find factory loaded ammo other than what is available from Hornady. Another decade and the Ruger cartridges may be like the Dakota proprietary cartridges, gone the way of the dodo bird.

Note: The .458 Win was designed for a standard length action for the same reason that drug dealers give future junkies the first hit of crack for free. Once hooked, they will come back and back and back for more crack or in our world, ammunition. Winchester could not have been sellign .458 Win ammo to thousands of converted Mauser owners if the new cartridge would have been released in .375 H&H length.

The .416 Taylor has less case capacity than either the .416 Rem or Rigby but it has enough to drive a 400 grain bullet to 2350 fps. A careful handloader could push the Rem or Rigby cartridges to 2450 fps but why bother? The originally .416 Rigby load was for a 410 grain bullet at an advertised 2350 fps. The actual velocity may have been somewhat less than that. There were NOT many tools for measuring velocity available to consumers or handloaders a hundred years ago. FYI, when I shoot factory ammunition across my trusty Lab Radar I find that advertised velocity isn’t always so. A difference of 20 or 30 fps could be attributed to variances in the chamber dimensions of a test barrel and whatever barrel I am shooting. But 50 fps or more is suspect!

My opinion as an experienced shooter and ballistician rather than a 20-time African hunter is that the .416 caliber cartridges provides the middle ground in power and range compared to the trusty, do anything .375 H&H-class and the .458 and larger class dangerous game cartridges. Someone who has shot everything on the planet including a blue whale with a .375 may dispute that. Or one who specializes in elephants may very much prefer a .500 or larger rifle. But, I think the .416 class is in the middle...

Of the available .416 dangerous game cartridges, the Rigby has the most nostalgia but requires a magnum length slightly larger diameter action, the Remington with today’s temperature stable powders is the most practical but requires a magnum length action, the Ruger is a great design for standard length actions that was introduced far, far to late, and the Taylor should have been introduced as a factory cartridge long ago. But, it is far too late for that.

The cartridge that Remington introduced was very similar to the wildcat .416 Hoffman. Big Green wasn’t in business to give anyone else credit for their good idea. Hmmm, this reminds me of the .416 Ruger being released rather than chambering rifles for the old timer .416 Taylor.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

I would no more than I would for a 416 Remington.

 

[gbflyer]

Dearly if it was left handed stainless with a good McMillan stock.